Caring For Piston Filler Pens - Lubrication, Ink Choice?

[Intensity]

I've checked with Papier Plume, and they said their own ink line is pH neutral, which is great. Their inks are made from French dyes and have that lower amount of saturation J. Herbin inks usually exhibit. Checking with Birmingham Pen Co. now, as their inks are usually also lower saturation and flush out relatively easily. I'll be very content using low saturation pH-neutral inks with my piston fillers (skipping my favorite Sailor and Colorverse inks for those pens).

[sirgilbert357]

 

Needs to be put in a sticky somewhere.

 

 

Not really. He re-types most of that weekly...

[sirgilbert357]

That's very interesting advice, Bo Bo Olson! I might try that. Isn't silicone grease not water soluble? I was going to try this silicone grease at some point: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00X7JXM4C/

 

I have a sample vial of Noodler's Eel Black and decided to try it out on the Montegrappa piston filler I'm currently flushing. Anecdotal evidence, I know, but the ink sat in the pen for a few hours, and then I've moved the piston up and down with the ink and rinsed with water again. The piston twist-cap is noticeably easier to turn now and and the movement is smoother.

 

 

Please, DO NOT boil silicone grease in water and then suck it up into your feed trying to lubricate your piston. That is terrible advice. You do not want water that hot being sucked up into your pen. You also don't want silicone clogging the tiny passages of your feed.

 

If you don't know how to maintain your pen, google it or email the pen manufacturer about it. Or take your pen to a professional who you've verified with ahead of time that they can service your kind of pen.

Edited February 21, 2019 by sirgilbert357

[pajaro]

People getting into a hobby tend to be passionate to the point of obsession and then later have more confidence and calm. A pen is not made with the intention of providing entertainment in the form of assembly and disassembly to try to discover the condition or how near failure it is. Pens are meant to be filled and used and are designed accordingly. Each disassembly and reassembly offers the opportunity for something to have threads stripped or cross threaded, to have something accidentally broken. When a piston filler failed for me it was after twenty years of use, and a seal leaked and required replacement, from the manufacturer. When the piston wears enough, the pen will not pick up ink, and you will not need to disassemble the pen to find that out.

 

Leave it alone and just use it and have confidence that it will last twenty plus years.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Glad the ink worked.....

 

If the grease floats. it floats. Don't need a lot, I imagine.

Wouldn't suck up boiling mixture....warm..

...and silicon grease does wear out of the feed. After one has rubbed it around a regular Pelikan barrel, the ink don't act strange....in having picked up some of the smear inside the barrel.

 

 

......but something like MB could be done that way (supposedly one needs special tools)...............if one don't have the money to send it to a pro to be taken apart to be lubed....might as well have it re-corked....and cork is better than Plastic Gasket 2.0........do have rants vs O rings.

 

Fitted cork should be boiled in oil and beeswax and then smeared with silicon grease. My two early '50's MB's that needed repair were done so.....one had a dead Plastic Gasket 1.0, the other a telescopic piston that was locked down. That had sat a couple generations...in the cork was still NOS unstained...but old cork is old cork even if never used. (Why that pen was never shipped back for repair is beyond me.)

Same with cork repairs of my Osmias.

 

Geha has a problem with lubing the sides of the barrel because of the reserve tank don't let one get to the barrel side to smear it.............but my 60-70 year old Gehas are still smooth. Was thinking of that .... with reference to the feed....I could just leave the feed and nib out, it unscrews, shake the mixture and discard. (Do need to mix the silicon grease with 'something'. )

.

....I never tried it in didn't have any silicon grease to spare....still got a remnants from a thumb joint's worth from 9 years ago. It was once so very, very hard to get. Have to go to Amazon some day....

 

Tried glycerine, didn't seem to work........and worried about wetting down an ink too much. So by the time one got it cleaned out with water...what ever it was supposed to do was gone.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Bo Bo Olson

[Intensity]

A pen is not made with the intention of providing entertainment in the form of assembly and disassembly to try to discover the condition or how near failure it is. Pens are meant to be filled and used and are designed accordingly. Each disassembly and reassembly offers the opportunity for something to have threads stripped or cross threaded, to have something accidentally broken. When a piston filler failed for me it was after twenty years of use, and a seal leaked and required replacement, from the manufacturer. When the piston wears enough, the pen will not pick up ink, and you will not need to disassemble the pen to find that out.

 

Leave it alone and just use it and have confidence that it will last twenty plus years.

 

I assume you're responding to mostly other people who posted in this thread, as my question definitely has nothing to do with any entertainment value of disassembling pens. If anything, I actually don't like doing that at all (while I do like fixing and disassembling electronics and doing a lot of hands-on crafts--fountain pen tinkering is very low on that list). I'm wondering more about things like "how do I know my piston filler mechanism is not working as well as it should be?" and "can I do any servicing safely myself to fix that without going into tricky disassembly?" I've seen plenty of posts where people talk about lubricating their Lamy 2000 piston and such, so that made me wonder if I should be doing something or my fountain pen pistons too. My questions come from ignorance of how sturdy and durable piston filler mechanisms are made and what is their expected life span when left unattended (by that I mean just using the pen as normal).

Edited February 21, 2019 by Intensity

[Tweel]

Please, DO NOT boil silicone grease in water and then suck it up into your feed trying to lubricate your piston. That is terrible advice.

 

Wouldn't suck up boiling mixture....warm..

...and silicon grease does wear out of the feed.

 

I don't think that's terrible advice, I think it's innovative . In fact, I'm going to go fill my car's gas tank with motor oil, so that oil can reach the piston rings .

[Intensity]

 

 

I don't think that's terrible advice, I think it's innovative . In fact, I'm going to go fill my car's gas tank with motor oil, so that oil can reach the piston rings .

 

Haha, now THAT sounds quite unsafe.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Didn't know they made any two cycle car engines now that the DDR is no more. The Famous Trabi....Trabant....19kW or 25 HP.

 

Two Cycle motor cycles are illegal now....just about...........were faster than 4 cycle.

Mofa....little one cylinder 'motor' bikes....were also two cycle. There was a special oil and gas pump....small, didn't pump much nor fast.

 

Don't suggest that for 4 cycle motors.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Bo Bo Olson

[pajaro]

 

I assume you're responding to mostly other people who posted in this thread, as my question definitely has nothing to do with any entertainment value of disassembling pens. If anything, I actually don't like doing that at all (while I do like fixing and disassembling electronics and doing a lot of hands-on crafts--fountain pen tinkering is very low on that list). I'm wondering more about things like "how do I know my piston filler mechanism is not working as well as it should be?" and "can I do any servicing safely myself to fix that without going into tricky disassembly?" I've seen plenty of posts where people talk about lubricating their Lamy 2000 piston and such, so that made me wonder if I should be doing something or my fountain pen pistons too. My questions come from ignorance of how sturdy and durable piston filler mechanisms are made and what is their expected life span when left unattended (by that I mean just using the pen as normal).

 

I think you can get twenty plus years out of a piston filling pen before a seal goes or the piston wears enough to lose suction. Many piston fillers, like Pelikan, are reputed to last longer. A little bead of pure silicone lubricant jelly in the barrel and circled around with a toothpick or something similar is enough lube for years. Piston converters generally go about ten years. You might improve on that with the tiny bead of silicon lube inserted through the hole or by taking the converter apart to put the bead of lube inside the clear tube part. This stuff lasts a long time, and the manufacturer's recommendations should be followed. Monitoring the innards of the pen for signs of wear or failure would probably require precision measurement and access to manufacturer's procedures. Suit yourself, but if repairing pens is low on your priority list, I would just read the owner's document and use the pen with confidence.

[Intensity]

Thank you. Unfortunately the care suggestions from manufacturers are not saying anything beyond the common sense:

https://www.montegrappa.com/en/page/usomanutenzione.html

 

I found this bit curious: "We advise using only Montegrappa ink." (which is a common suggestion from each pen/ink manufacturer). I don't know if this info came directly from the manufacturer, but nibs.com says the following about Montegrappa inks:

 

https://www.nibs.com/ink/montegrappa-bottled-inks

 

"Naturally formulated, Montegrappa bottled inks are a composite of acid, colorant and tincture, glycerine, polyester ethylene glycol, Arabic resin, and carbamide/carbonyldiamide. No dyes or any other ingredients of animal origin such as carmine, beeswax, shellac, isinglass, gelatin, or animal-derived glycerin are used."

 

I assume that was taken under consideration when recommending those inks for Montegrappa pens.

[praxim]

the care suggestions from manufacturers are not saying anything beyond the common sense:

 

Maybe they are hiding something?

[Bibliophage]

 

 

I don't think that's terrible advice, I think it's innovative . In fact, I'm going to go fill my car's gas tank with motor oil, so that oil can reach the piston rings .

Sounds like a diesel.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Ink makers who made fountain pens, match feed and nib to their own ink.

Pelikan is a wet nib, in it makes a dry ink. MB is a medium-dry ink.

Waterman makes narrow nibs so is a wet ink.

Lamy seems to be a dry ink.

 

Some inks shade....dry into two toned on good paper....Waterman made it's turquoise that shaded well, but it's brown didn't at all. It's blue was wet and didn't shade...........so outside of having a bottle of blue for a while until replaced with DA Royal Blue, a more lubricated and more saturated ink. I have certain pens that are dry writers....................or sometimes I want a bit more smooth in an ink...........not always, just sometimes.

 

Montegrappa is a relatively new ink....I've seen some colors I like, but I don't know if it's wet like a Waterman ink or dry like a Pelikan.

At @ E12.50 not too expensive.

 

Some folks insist on all their pens being exactly the same ink flow....8/10.....guess they are one ink, one paper folks.

I have some wetter pens, some dryer pens....and can play with wetter or dryer inks on different papers....looking for perfection..........................Do Write it Down....when you find it.....and in Three Places!!!!!

Hummmm my perfection would like shading............not boring vivid supersaturated lines. Sheen would be nice too.

Paper is more important than the ink!!!!

Width of the nib can make an ink look completely different. Look at any Ink Review done by our Ink Guru Sandy1..........four widths (Nail/regular flex...not semi flex or higher flex rates.),four papers and the ink can and does look completely different.

 

Over the years she has used seven papers......I keep telling my self to get some of that paper....but don't. I have 40 papers and feel very 'noobie'.

 

Many folks stick real wet ink like Noodler's in a wet nib like Pelikan and complain about how wet Pelikan writes. MB will write wet too with many of the very wet Noodler inks. There are dryer Noodler inks....the ones that shade.

 

A wet ink will make a nib write @ 1/2 to one full width wider..........narrow 1/2 a width narrower.

Same with a good slick paper leaving a thinner line, a poor copy paper a much fatter line.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Bo Bo Olson

[txomsy]

FWIW, I have a number of vintage piston filler pens... dating back to the 30-40's some of them. In none did I have to disassemble it to get it to work. All of them work like a charm whenever I want them to. No maintenance done. Some have been resting unused for long periods (> 20-30 years). No problem. Some have gone through a lot of battering judging by their aspect now. No problemo. Granted, they are all vintage and German. If they hadn't needed to be disassembled after this much time, you shouldn't probably worry for as long either.

 

I think that the best advice is to use it and do not worry about disassembly. If it's well done, it should go on for a lifetime without a problem. If and when you notice a problem, then, and only then, consider if it is worth sending it for repair to a pro, or trying to do it yourself, or tossing it away (eeck!).

 

BTW, I also have one Serwex 1632 from FPRevolutionUSA. That has been designed to be disassembled. If that is what you are looking for, by all means, get one. It is cheap enough that should you damage it, it will be not a major issue.

 

If you want to clean it, simply do it with water or water plus a tiny amount of ammonium (or bleach) depending on the ink, or try to avoid deep reds (which usually stain more persistently).

[Madeline]

Ink makers who made fountain pens, match feed and nib to their own ink.

Pelikan is a wet nib, in it makes a dry ink. MB is a medium-fry ink.

Waterman makes narrow nibs so is a wet ink.

Lamy seems to be a dry ink.

Some inks shade....dry into two toned on good paper....Waterman made it's turquoise that shaded well, but it's brown didn't at all. It's blue was wet and didn't shade...........so outside of having a bottle of blue for a while until replaced with DA Royal Blue, a more lubricated and more saturated ink. I have certain pens that are dry writers....................or sometimes I want a bit more smooth in an ink...........not always, just sometimes.

 

Montegrappa is a relatively new ink....I've seen some colors I like, but I don't know if it's wet like a Waterman ink or dry like a Pelikan.

At @ E12.50 not too expensive.

 

Some folks insist on all their pens being exactly the same ink flow....8/10.....guess they are one ink, one paper folks.

I have some wetter pens, some dryer pens....and can play with wetter or dryer inks on different papers....looking for perfection..........................Do Write it Down....when you find it.....and in Three Places!!!!!

Hummmm my perfection would like shading............not boring vivid supersaturated lines. Sheen would be nice too.

Paper is more important than the ink!!!!

Width of the nib can make an ink look completely different. Look at any Ink Review done by our Ink Guru Sandy1..........four widths (Nail/regular flex...not semi flex or higher flex rates.),four papers and the ink can and does look completely different.

 

Over the years she has used seven papers......I keep telling my self to get some of that paper....but don't. I have 40 papers and feel very 'noobie'.

 

Many folks stick real wet ink like Noodler's in a wet nib like Pelikan and complain about how wet Pelikan writes. MB will write wet too with many of the very wet Noodler inks. There are dryer Noodler inks....the ones that shade.

 

A wet ink will make a nib write @ 1/2 to one full width wider..........narrow 1/2 a width narrower.

Same with a good slick paper leaving a thinner line, a poor copy paper a much fatter line.

 

Bo Bo, what a terrific summary of the possible results from the equation of ink+paper+pen. Very helpful for someone like me who is still very new to all of this. Thank you!

[Bo Bo Olson]

Madeline, do look at the papers Sandy1 has used over the last decade...some 7, do invest in good to better papers. Make a list of those papers. Treat your self two-three times a year.

 

As noobie, I was given great help on inks by a great passed poster Piembi...one of our early Pelikan experts. She was map and flashlight and showed me Oxford Optic paper, that the many inks danced on.

 

If you buy some good to better paper a couple times a year real soon you will have a good selection of papers to have your inks dance on.

 

A ream of 500 sheets will last a long time if not shoved into a printer.

One can print lines of different widths, with free templates, so one can have narrow collage lines for F-EF nibs, something wider for M, or wide lines for a B-BB nib. Your choice. Anything so the e is not closed.

 

For every three bottles of ink you buy buy a box or a ream of good to better paper. That way you won't fall behind the power curve....I can give advice, in I did it all backwards, first lots of pens, then lots of inks.....and finally started looking for good to better paper.

 

Writing is 1/3 nib width/flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink and in that order.

 

When I got here about a decade ago, Lamy Turquoise was the basis turquoise all were compared too. A nice ink, but rather Blaaaa. Then I looked in Ink Reviews, and the then two reviews showed two toned shading.

 

The two toned shading ink nuts hadn't reached full flower then, is now a few more of us around.

 

Noobies are interested in a wet vivid line.........is a given. (actually looking for better paper is not a given at all!!!)

Later some get into shading, and 'rather new' sheen inks. Glitter inks is 'new' too.

Many 'noobies' look down their nose at shading.....'wishy-washy' pastel shading inks.....in it don't look gel pen enough for them.

 

Advice....made a in list....actually you will make many....but make sure only 10 inks are on your must have list.............such a list is a forever list. Spend a lot of time in Ink Reviews and Inky Thoughts.........................Do Make an Ink Budget. 'Golute'(sp) has small ink samples you can buy. He also sells good to better paper.

 

One needs shading inks, which are often dryer. One needs wet inks....and one needs vivid monotone supersaturated inks.............and the paper for the ink to dance on.

At first 10-12 inks sounds like a lot....... :lticaptd:I have 70 give or take and don't even have the 100 Basic Mainland Euro inks................

Yep, a couple Noodlers ... Apache Sunset---don't have but on my buy list is Ottoman Azure) , a Japanese ink or two..... An English ink or three.....and a few mainland Euro inks.

 

Ah ha.....look on your local Ebay for a MB ink shoe....empty....Waterman and Pelikan also have nice bottles to use to refill.The latter two you can buy full.

 

Over in Inky Thoughts there will be recommended replacement inks for the overly expensive MB or Graf von Faber-Castel, or C'dA inks. Near-clones.

 

 

Ink seems to have jumped radically in price in the last couple of years......once I'd recommended MB Toffee as a nice shading brown at E12-13 ...even at E15.....but not at E19!.

Herbin Lie de Thee` a nice light brown/tea ink has jumped to E10....small bottle. Yes, you need one.

Pelikan 4001 is still cheap, it's 4001 Brilliant Brown is a reddish born. Turqoise and BB if you can get it is needed. You will have to order and smuggle your BB into the US....you can drown a rat in Pelikan 4001 BB. Is a must have ink.

I have no idea why I have 7-8 Blue Black inks....I don't collect them.

 

 

I did not ever even think of buying a green ink , until I found an open half bottle of Pelikan 4001 Brilliant Green on sale dirt cheap.

You will need R&K Verdura is a great green-green shading ink.....for @ E8.50....a slight tad better or = to MB Irish...but again that costs E19. Pelikan 4001 Brilliant Green is no longer made....check your local Ebay. (Many didn't like it....I did. It started me off a hunt for purple inks into buying 14 greenish inks in a year. (Still sitting at the 8 purple inks I had when ambushed by Green.)

Many like the darker green 4001 replacement for Brilliant Green, I don't care for it all that much.

Pelikan violet is a good ink.....Lamy's violet sadly only comes in cartridges.

 

Pelikan Edelstein....don't know the stateside prices but Euro price is E16....really like Topaz.....great loo9king bottle but only 50ml. smoky Quarts is also real nice. I've 8-10 of them.....some are LE's.....limited editions. (You can get the limited edition 200 and the same ink.....but suggest just the ink, in one only needs a couple Pelikan 200's............... Unless you suddenly start collecting Pelikan 200's............and there's many worse things to do.

MB's LE's are now way too expensive for me now.

 

 

Back when I was 'noobie'. I very soon learned Oxford Optic 90 g/24 pound was a very good inexpensive paper. = to Clairefontaine Velote` 90g.........I have spiral notebooks of that. I don't know what is the stateside equitant.

 

America makes some great papers....but are unknown in the world because everyone else is A-4 and not 11 /2 x 8. Some sort of Mohawk paper sticks in my mind.

Southworth unfortunately is a laser-ink jet combo. The papers are adequate and there are enough different boxes to have fun with. Ink Jet paper is a feather champ, in ink jet ink has to be absorbed very, very fast...........so when combined....the laser paper must take a slight hit.

Eventually you will need some.

 

HP laser paper, 90g-24 pounds, 100g, 110g and eventually 120g-32 pounds...are good papers. I don't know exactly how good they are now and there are many, so one has to look. For a while Fugi/Xerox was great...but then they made a second paper that wasn't. So much for plan A.

 

You do have to dig around in the paper sections, looking for good...inexpensive papers.....like something from Staples from Brazil is great, and the same from Viet Nam is not. (Then after saying that enough....some poster came on and say his Viet Nam paper of that company is very good.)

 

 

I had thought that if I went to heavy papers......150-170g or better it would be better papers............some times one does need the 35 year old single malt scotch.

 

It's not always true. I spent a few years dithering at E40 for 100 sheets of Gmund papers. I'd bought some fountain pen friendly samples and ran lots of inks over them over them in The Years of Dithering. (The 'Original Gmund' paper paper version were E40 for only 50 sheets so I dithered professionally.)

 

The E40 for 100 sheets, the 120 g paper was perfect, the 170g was only nearly perfect, but I liked the feel of that heavy paper. Someday when I look under a five leaf clover and find the pot of gold. I'll get the best paper.

 

I have some 40 papers and feel so 'noobie'.

Sooner or later you will need some Clairefontaine Tromphe and Rhodia 80 or 90g. You can work your way up...............but common 80g/20 pound copy paper is for ball points not for fountain pens.............same with Moleskine.

 

There is a Japanese paper Tomo...something River that one 'must' have.

I got a little bit somewhere.

 

The best advice is....never hurry with fountain pens or inks and papers. Take your time, have an idea of what and why you are buying. There is a bit more to ink than just pretty..............Do look at Sandy1 Ink Reviews.

 

There are now a couple others who are good also.........do Sandy first when looking at inks she has reviewed.

You want to be able to say....I'll order these six inks and two papers this time and those three inks and that one paper some months from now.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Bo Bo Olson

[sirgilbert357]

 

 

I don't think that's terrible advice, I think it's innovative . In fact, I'm going to go fill my car's gas tank with motor oil, so that oil can reach the piston rings .

 

 

Really? You want to suck silicone grease up into your feed?

 

You're welcome to your opinions and I mine. But experience should be the source of recommendations, not crazy ideas. Until Ron Zorn or someone of equal pen knowledge green lights this idea and offers an explanation of why it's the best way to do this, I'd stay far away from this method.

 

EDIT: Sorry, it appears you might have been joking? If so, good....

Edited February 22, 2019 by sirgilbert357

[max dog]

Pistons should go decades without service. Stick with manuf inks like MB and Pelikan and you should be fine.

[Honeybadgers]

 

 

Really? You want to suck silicone grease up into your feed?

 

You're welcome to your opinions and I mine. But experience should be the source of recommendations, not crazy ideas. Until Ron Zorn or someone of equal pen knowledge green lights this idea and offers an explanation of why it's the best way to do this, I'd stay far away from this method.

 

EDIT: Sorry, it appears you might have been joking? If so, good....

 

r/whoosh