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Pelican 140,

pricing identification age value pelican 140 585 nib

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85 replies to this topic

#61 penman88

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 17:57

 

 

Your Faber Castell is a cartridge pen...which if you have a rubber bulb syringe is very easy to clean.

After  years of trying to avoid cartridges like the plague, Nathan finally bit the bullet, in unless you use a converter or needle fill your old cartridges. Cartridges are expensive.....don't know if Nathan's cartridges are cheap or not.

 

my faber castell e-motion came with a converter and I haven't seen any cartridges for it when shopping for ink???


 

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#62 penman88

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 18:08

not to get off topic, but does the nib and feed all come out of the body seperatly? because the nib unit of my faber costell doesnt allow for easy cleaning. after flushing it with water multiple times it does clear the ink out of the feed but then the water is stuck in the feed/nib unit and the only way to re-ink the pen is to either wait 24hrs for the water to dry up, or fill it with water still in it, causing the ink to thin a little, for some reason this drives me nuts! so my question is, is there any way to effectivly deal with this w/o waiting, and does the 140's have a nib and feed that cannot be removed from the housing?


 

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#63 TimeoDanaos

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 18:27

not to get off topic, but does the nib and feed all come out of the body seperatly? because the nib unit of my faber costell doesnt allow for easy cleaning. after flushing it with water multiple times it does clear the ink out of the feed but then the water is stuck in the feed/nib unit and the only way to re-ink the pen is to either wait 24hrs for the water to dry up, or fill it with water still in it, causing the ink to thin a little, for some reason this drives me nuts! so my question is, is there any way to effectivly deal with this w/o waiting, and does the 140's have a nib and feed that cannot be removed from the housing?


Check out this picture: https://www.pelikan-...s/140-serie.jpg

As you can see, you can just screw out the nib unit (let it soak first). The collar around the nib and feed is friction fit. Very easy to clean. Don't disassemble the unit if not necessary though, it can be tricky to reassemble. But taking the nib unit out makes it easy to clean and dry the barrel and feed.

#64 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 19:00

Buy two rubber baby bulb syringes.

One for your normal C/C pen...Fill with water, stick over the spike and squeeze in and out until water comes out clean. (can be used to clean out either the piston pen once the nib has been removed...or you converter.....do be very careful screwing the nib back in. Many folks recommend not taking the nib and section out if you don't have too.....I do. But I am very careful at screwing it back on.....very gently.

Others seem to indicate if you hurry, you can screw up the nib section.....best to learn by the mistakes of others....cheaper.

 

Can be used to squirt into the barrel of a Pelikan piston pen, when the nib section is out. Faster than cleaning by screwing the piston up and down....................BE Very Careful....when screwing the nib section back in.

 

Second bulb syringe....chop off parts of the spout until it fits snuggly over the end of the Pelikan nib section. Is easy to squirt water in and out of nib and feed, cleaning it............Do Hold On Tight.....someone reported a launched nib missile. 

Could be one should aim at the bottom of a partially filled bathroom sink.

 

Take a paper towel....fold a few times... Stick screwed in nib & feed of the pen in it...hold tight, flick like an old time thermometer.

Let rest in a coffee cup for a few hours, for the remnants of the ink to drain out....could wait overnight if you have the time.

 

If the new ink color is any where near....a couple hours will do to get it 90-95% dry of remanent ink water. In such case, is good enough.

If going in a different color direction, overnight would be recommended.

 

It is astounding how much ink is still in the feed, even if bulb syringe cleaned.....the clean water ain't quite as clean as it looks.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

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#65 ENewton

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Posted 01 March 2019 - 02:04

I think I've finally found a combination that works.  I'm now using Pelikan 4001 Violet. which I hesitated to try because of the ubiquitous characterization of Pelikan 4001 inks as dry.  I had previously tried  Waterman Tender Purple, which is ubiquitously characterized as wet, but the 140/Waterman combination was like writing not with a pencil but with an eraser.  The Pelikan ink is lubricated enough, and Clairefontaine paper (which I normally don't like) slick enough for the pen to slide instead of dragging.



#66 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 01 March 2019 - 11:05

A semi-flex nib, due to it's ease of tine bend and spread is a wet nib....so a wet ink would be a bit too much.

Clairefontaine ... Triomphe? In there are other Clairefontaine papers....I like the 90g Veloute` spiral notebook....it's affordable good paper.

Triomphe was not as slick as I expected...neither was the Rhodia new 90g. Could be I was using better papers so the jump wasn't so extreme.

 

That Pelikan inks 'drag' is a new one to me...................but I don't hang out with the Waterman is dry ink crowd of supersaturated ink users.

I chase shading inks, so I guess they would now be called dragging inks, besides wishy-washy, by them that chase boring vivid wet supersaturated inks.

 

(That or very many have nothing but butter smooth nibs...that are butter smooth only with a wet ink. and not with a dry ink.................humm, sounds like a nib problem not an ink problem. Of course I don't have that....I only have a couple -4-5 butter smooth nibs, most of mine are all 'good and smooth' the level under butter smooth.. .....outside the mandatory toothy pens one has to have...some two or three.... :P , which can be made less toothy by wet supersaturated inks. Toothy is like writing with a pencil....not scratchy.)

 

Well I do strive to use 90g/24 pound  or heavier paper, so when I edit on my common 80g/20 pound, I'm not expecting anything.....much less, much. It's 80g and won't shade. ...(I don't stick my good paper in my printer!!!!)

 

I don't expect the world when it's laser-ink jet..........in to do ink jet that paper has had a major compromise. Strive to get laser only and at or heavier than 90g/24 pounds.

 

Pelikan 4001 inks will shade on good paper....in regular flex M&F nibs.....EF is too narrow and as mentioned semi-flex can be too wet.............though Pelikan 4001 and Clairefontaine Triomphe should be a good enough match to shade a semi-flex on. As long as you are not too heavy handed and are maxing the nib out to 3 X a light down stroke.

 

As noobie to semi-flex most are Ham Fisted coming from nails and ball points. I was (use of a fountain pen in B&W TV days did not make up for 40 years of plowing a ball point through the south forty with out the mule.)

Took me some three months to lighten my Hand so my nib wasn't maxed all the time.

A maxed nib will limit shading because of the amount of ink laid.

 

Do read Richard Binder's fine article on metal fatigue. After that I strive to never max a nib...outside of testing. I have a 100n superflex, first stage, Easy Full Flex that will do a tine spread of 5 X a light down stroke. I strive to only go 4 X with it as a max. I don't want to spring the nib.

 

Regular flex (200/120/100/150, -'82-97 400's) Semi-flex and Maxi-semi-flex (for simplicity's sake '50-65) are a 3 X tine spread set.

Don't push them to more in you risk springing your nib.................much of what you see on YouTube or Ebay, is done with now sprung nibs. :( :angry:

 

I consider a semi-flex nibbed pen to be a flair pen, one gets that old fashioned fountain pen flair with out doing anything. Normal writing pressure will make the first letter of a word wider, one might get an end letter that thins.

 

I think trying for fancy is hard in semi-flex, and one should have a stiff Italic Calligraphy book, to learn to draw letters should you want to add a nice decender at the end of a paragraph. To do fancy often is a lot of hard work in semi-flex..........................there are dip pens that do the real job and cheap.

 

Maxi is easier when you finally luck into one..... but first stage of superflex Easy Full Flex can be had in an Ahab Mod..........and is much more 'fun' than pushing a semi-flex too far.  That is a good cheap way to get a pen that does Copperplate and Spenserian or other fat letter writing. Easy Full Flex, the first stage of superflex does fancy real easy. The Ahab mod is that Pilot mod of half moons ground into the nib.

 

 

Do not worry about maxi-semi-flex right now....when you have a hand full of semi-flex you might have one. The only company that differentiates between semi-flex and maxi is Osmia. The nib with the small diamond with the number in it are semi-flex....those with the Big Diamond and Supra or just Supra, are the maxi-semi-flex.

 

1922 Osmia is founded, it don't have an office supply House attached to their pen making like Soennecken, MB, Pelikan and later Geha. So were always broke. 1932 Degussa takes over their nib factory due to debt. Degussa is the main, gold and silver maker in Germany. Everyone bought their gold and silver from them.

 

Everyone made nibs for others, MB did for Pelikan in 1930. Osmia did for many....there were some 120 pen makers.....some only screwed the parts together....put in the rubber sacs....and so on. Rupp was a nib maker only, started in 1922 in the Pen Capitol of the World, Heidelberg.

 

Deguss are making two different gold nibs for Osmia A semi-flex and a maxi.

In outside of Osmia, I guess that 1 in 5 vintage semi-flex nibs are maxi-semi-flex with no markings to that.

 

It came to me, that all the nib makers bought their gold ribbon band wheels from Degussa, and it could well be that they would ship off their done and waiting roll of Supra level gold, instead of making them wait while they ran up another wheel of semi-flex gold ribbon.

For me, that explains the 1 in 5 maxi occurrence out side of Osmia....and with Osmia, the gold nib is as good as the steel.

Yes, if lucky there are gold nibs just as good as good steel ones. :D

Degussa made nibs for Geha, Soennecken at the end. Bock did too, started '38.

 

I have an Ibis, a 500 and a 400nn in maxi-semi-flex gold nibs. I lucked into them...along with maxi nibs from MB, Geha, Reform and a few others...Those are pure luck, in they are not marked,

I have some 5 maxi-semi-flex in Osmia/O-F-C pens and three out of five I think are steel, but they are 'marked' in they are the Supra nibs. I've 4-5 small diamond regular flex also in gold and steel.

I have some 16 maxi-semi-flex.....some 28 or so semi-flex. If I take away the Osmia Supra nib.....I WAG 1 in 5 is a maxi.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 01 March 2019 - 11:38.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

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#67 ENewton

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Posted 01 March 2019 - 16:53

I cannot tell how much of that long message was intended as a response to me, but let me clarify my meaning in case it was not clear.

 

I have not enjoyed the Clairefontaine papers I have tried because they are too slick for me.  I also do not seek out the smoothest possible nibs.  These are matters of personal preference and, I think, also of writing technique.  

 

Either my Pelikan 140 is an anomaly, or my touch is much lighter than most people's--I suspect the latter--because the tines on my pen do not spread perceptibly as I write.  This is not a problem for me, because if I want line variation, I can always use a brush or something like a Brause Rose nib.  I tried Waterman ink in the Pelikan 140 because the pen is on the dry side.  

 

I did, on the basis of other posts on this forum, expect the Pelikan to be wet and thought it might even be ideal for showcasing the fabulous shading possibilities of Rohrer & Klingner Scabiosa, but clearly this is not the pen for that purpose.

 

I have used Pelikan 4001 Violet for more than twenty years--for most of that time, I used it exclusively--and have never found it to cause a pen to drag.  I have used it in Waterman pens and in Japanese extra fine points with no cause for complaint.  I cannot compare it with supersaturated inks, because I do not use them.


Edited by ENewton, 02 March 2019 - 00:56.


#68 OMASsimo

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 02:43

Your 140 is more than 50 years old and I dare to assume that you may not know exactly what happened to it in it's lifetime. So, the nib could have suffered some and be misadjusted or it was misadjusted in the first place. I have a good number of Pelikans from that time and the nibs vary quite a bit. But non of them is particularly dry or wet, they rather surprise my how well any of my Pelikans can handle almost any paper quality. Therefore, I'd assume it's an adjustment problem that wasn't there initially. If you write with an extremely light hand (which I like myself) the tension of your tines might be just a tiny bit too high. There needs to be a tiny slit at the tip for the capillary action to work. A heavy handed writer might have bent the nib to adjust it to his/her fist and avoid exuberant ink flow. Of course, this could be reversed. It might be worth to consult the repairs subforum.



#69 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 10:56

"""Either my Pelikan 140 is an anomaly, or my touch is much lighter than most people's--I suspect the latter--because the tines on my pen do not spread perceptibly as I write.  This is not a problem for me, because if I want line variation, I can always use a brush or something like a Brause Rose nib.  I tried Waterman ink in the Pelikan 140 because the pen is on the dry side."" 

 

Does your tines spread if you push the nib? Should spread rather easily....unless your nib says H or D....H for hard, D for Dour....very hard. A D nib is a nails Nail.

 

Line variation, at least flair the wider first part of the first letter, perhaps thinning of the last letter if it is say an e, thinning of the trail. .Flair should be automatic....more than flair, can or should be be able to achieve line variation with more pressure.

Even with a light Hand, some flair should be there.

 

I get flair/line variation with out having to do anything with all my semi&maxi-semi-flex nibbed pens.

 

The nib should not be so dry that one needs Waterman ink.

 

You don't flag yourself, so I have no idea to whom you should go to see what is wrong with your 140.....and it appears something is wrong with it.

 

My original thought was some one put a modern nib on the 140....but it is a small nib....I don't know if the 100/150 nib is that small. Similar in size yes......and regular flex not semi-flex.

I don't know if the 100's nib would fit....just screwing one in....well there is the difference in the feed.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 02 March 2019 - 14:13.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#70 penman88

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 00:06

So this pen arrived today, as pointed out here the nib does not seat in the collar, the nib assembly unscrews pretty easy but I seem unable to pull out the nib or push it in, I keep twisting the tines leading to bad news! Any suggestions?

 

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#71 penman88

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 00:11

A good suggestion bobo it may be the wrong nib? It is same length as my 400 nib only slightly narrower? It is defiantly period correct? An early 50s nib for sure? It does write pretty well? And wet! I am not sure what to do?

 

Keep your thoughts positive because your thoughts become your words. Keep your words positive because your words become your behavior. Keep your behavior positive because your behavior becomes your habits. Keep your habits positive because your habits become your values. Keep your values positive because your values become your destiny 

 

 


#72 penman88

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 00:11

A good suggestion bobo it may be the wrong nib? It is same length as my 400 nib only slightly narrower? It is defiantly period correct? An early 50s nib for sure? It does write pretty well? And wet! I am not sure what to do?

 

Keep your thoughts positive because your thoughts become your words. Keep your words positive because your words become your behavior. Keep your behavior positive because your behavior becomes your habits. Keep your habits positive because your habits become your values. Keep your values positive because your values become your destiny 

 

 


#73 amk

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 09:07

Wowwwwwwwwwwwww

 

I have just soaked a 140 that I acquired via ebay.

 

It's been producing bright blue for two entire days and more than a dozen changes of water, and it's still going.

 

It was completely dry and the piston stuck when it arrived.

 

It is just *amazing* what's in these pens, sometimes.

 

At least the piston is now moving. Another soak and I think I might risk putting some ink in and seeing what the nib's like.

 

So, to return to the thread - if you get a vintage Pelikan 'in the wild', just keep flushing. And flushing. And flushing. 


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#74 OMASsimo

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 10:44

First of all, patience is key and highly recommended. Soaking, soaking, soaking! And then again soaking. :) You might speed it up a little using an ultrasonic bath. If you can unscrew the nib unit,  then it's easy to remove the nib and feed from the collar using a knock-out block. However, when setting the nib, always screw in the collar into the section first or you risk to break it.

 

Good luck!



#75 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 12:18

A 140's nib will be narrower. as is the 120's nib...they look very close. Closer than I remembered. Nit pick to say the 120 is bigger/longer....

 

The 140's nib will have 14 C- 585....if later a Chevron. don't know about the first couple of years when the nib was not marked with width.

A 120's nib or at least mine, has no Chevron, nor a gold marking in it is gold plated.

 

The 400's nib is just a tad wider and a tad longer....if one was to put back to back, the length difference would be the area tipped...that small amount longer.

 I once thought there was a major size & width difference....I was wrong....but had once thought a 140's nib looked dorky in a 400/600 pen....but the size difference is less than I remembered. The 400's nib is a tad bigger and longer....don't know if the tad longer would cause the nib to bend when capped on a 140.

 

 

I looked at an earlier 50's 400 with the size marked on the piston knob, not on the nib, which had that old fashioned Pelikan script and gold marking.

The '90-97 gold 400's nib has a cheveron...sure my 400nn has that too. The 400's nibs at least in vintage and semi-vintage stayed the same size. Don't know about the modern 'post -97 nibs. Would expect it to be the same outside of the big blobby tip.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 13 March 2019 - 12:20.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#76 whych

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 01:02

Wowwwwwwwwwwwww

 

I have just soaked a 140 that I acquired via ebay.

 

It's been producing bright blue for two entire days and more than a dozen changes of water, and it's still going.

 

It was completely dry and the piston stuck when it arrived.

 

It is just *amazing* what's in these pens, sometimes.

 

At least the piston is now moving. Another soak and I think I might risk putting some ink in and seeing what the nib's like.

 

So, to return to the thread - if you get a vintage Pelikan 'in the wild', just keep flushing. And flushing. And flushing. 

Since you seem to be getting a lot of old ink out the pen, it may also be a good idea to immerse the whole pen in water and work the piston to get rid of old ink that has got stuck behind the piston.

When you empty the pen under water, you will it will draw water into the back of the piston, and filling the pen will expel the water from the back of the piston.

Keep doing this till there is little or no ink coming from the back of the piston. You will find the piston will move a lot easier after this.



#77 penman88

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 07:04

Ok I will soak it a bit, but how do I push the nib back in after its cleaned? I know I knocked the times out of alignment just a tad, and I didnt realize that modern a Pelikan had chevron nibs? I know my 140 is 50s 60s be the chevrons touch the nib slit, my 400 doesnt leading me to believe it may be 80s 90s? How do I know?

 

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#78 Barutti

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 09:16

Ok I will soak it a bit, but how do I push the nib back in after its cleaned? I know I knocked the times out of alignment just a tad, and I didnt realize that modern a Pelikan had chevron nibs? I know my 140 is 50s 60s be the chevrons touch the nib slit, my 400 doesnt leading me to believe it may be 80s 90s? How do I know?

 

May be I miss something, but why you need to push nib back if you can unscrew and screw again. My advice- soak at least for 3-4 days in warm water, while the nib unscrews (keep the nib with gently, to avoid lamellas damages). Also, you could use hair dryer to gently heat section. 

Your 400 NN is from middle of 60's, this seen from nib lines. The production of 400NN series ends in 1965.



#79 mana

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 10:07

Ok I will soak it a bit, but how do I push the nib back in after its cleaned? I know I knocked the times out of alignment just a tad, and I didnt realize that modern a Pelikan had chevron nibs? I know my 140 is 50s 60s be the chevrons touch the nib slit, my 400 doesnt leading me to believe it may be 80s 90s? How do I know?

Later vintage chevron nibs (from 1964 to 1965) had the same design as the modern ones (gap between the slot and the chevron lines), they did a short run of those until the production of the 400NN ceased. Read more on nibs over there > https://www.pelikan-...1929/index.html

Main tell between a vintage nib unit and modern nib unit are the feed and the collar. Vintage parts are all ebonite and the feeds have longitudinal fins (EDIT: 104 & 400 series pens also had collars made of polypropylene > transparent but brittle, those are usually found cracked).

Modern nib units are made of black thermoplastic, the collar is reinforced with a metal ring and the fins now run from side to side.

Also, all of the modern nibs have a size marking in capital italic letters, the vintage ones sometimes lack the size marking and when it is present it is not italicized.


Edited by mana, 14 March 2019 - 10:41.

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EDC: Post WWII green binde Pelikan 100N CI 14K B, Blue Marbled M200 F, 400NN Tortoise CI 14K BB. INKED: early 70s LAMY 2000 MK, Parker 51 Aerometric F & M, rOtring Art Pen 1.1 & Woodshed Pen Co. Red swirl 1.1 mm CI, Kaweco V12 14K B and then some... Inks: Pelikan 4001 BB & Turquoise, vintage Parker Quink, Lamy Turquoise, Diamine Eau de Nil, Sailor Souboku etc.


#80 mana

mana

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 10:34

Also...

Ebonite > Dull/matt surface.
Thermoplastic > More shiny surface.

Assembling the nib unit? What I like to do is the following:

1. Have all the parts ready plus the pen body.

2. Assemble the nib, feed and the collar part of the way so that everything lines up (collar is set in enough that all the parts are held together). The important part is to get the fit of the nib and the feed right (nib is centered and the front of the feed stops just before the leading edge of the nib).

NOTE: This process can be helped a bit by adding a miniscule amount of silicone grease to the inside of the collar (like gently dabbing a Q-tip in SC and then using that to apply it to the inside of the collar). The same applies to the outside of the collar/nib unit threads in the section, I usually treat them gently with it to prevent sticking.

3. Screw the loosely assembled nib unit into the pen body.

4. Now, grab the pen body with the non-dominant hand and the nib and feed with the dominant/stronger hand so that the feed is in the second crook of your index finger and your thumb presses down on the nib keeping everything firmly in place. The air hole should be centered on the index finger (important for the following step).

5. Now you just need to push the nib and feed straight in and far enough, this can be sort of gauged with the placement of the fingers/nib & feed. If the nib & feed go in too far then just unscrew the nib unit, disassemble it and return to 1.

Have a look at the following page for reference and to get a feel on how the nib & feed should sit on an assembled nib unit/pen: https://www.pelikan-...asis/index.html


Adopt, Don't Shop! Support Your Local Animal Shelters! - Let's make this world a better place together! Because... now is the only thing that is real...

"Indifference towards people and the reality in which they live is actually the one and only cardinal sin in design." - Dieter Rams
 

EDC: Post WWII green binde Pelikan 100N CI 14K B, Blue Marbled M200 F, 400NN Tortoise CI 14K BB. INKED: early 70s LAMY 2000 MK, Parker 51 Aerometric F & M, rOtring Art Pen 1.1 & Woodshed Pen Co. Red swirl 1.1 mm CI, Kaweco V12 14K B and then some... Inks: Pelikan 4001 BB & Turquoise, vintage Parker Quink, Lamy Turquoise, Diamine Eau de Nil, Sailor Souboku etc.






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: pricing, identification, age, value, pelican 140, 585 nib



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