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Pelican 140,

pricing identification age value pelican 140 585 nib

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85 replies to this topic

#21 whych

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 21:00

At most, just use warm water with a drop of dish wash liquid. You shouldn't need anything else.



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#22 TimeoDanaos

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 21:12

you dont think i should disassemble the whole pen and give it a good cleaning? i know alot of people dont take care of these older pens properly. especially in croatia where i purchased the pen from...

Give it a good cleaning, but don't try to remove the piston - you don't need to, and it compromises the pen's integrity. Clean and lubricate the inside of the barrel and clean the nib assembly. Also clean the cap, which is often full of old ink.

#23 sansenri

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 22:02

The 140 is one of my favourite PeliKans. :)

It's a classier 120 (which is the pen I learned to write with) thanks to it's classic Pelikan striped cellulose acetate and the gold nib.

The gold nibs on this pen (as also on other early Pelikan pens) have a squarish tip, stubbish like (even when F, M, etc.) not round.

These early nibs when in reasonably good conditions should look like this

fpn_1550353307__p1170311-3_pelikan_140_n

 

in these early nibs the feed is ebonite (sometime you will find a broken fin in these nibs, it does not really influence performance)

fpn_1550353645__p1170313-3_pelikan_140_n

 

fpn_1550353729__p1170315-3_pelikan_140_n

 

you can see it's an early nib from the markings (somewhat different to later nibs with the round logo)

Pelikan 585 14 KARAT M

fpn_1550354149__p1170320-3_pelikan_140_n

 

sorry for some blurring, hand held macro :unsure: and no repro set up (took the pic with some led torches pointing to the nib)

 

(click on the pics to see an enlarged version)


Edited by sansenri, 16 February 2019 - 22:08.


#24 AL01

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 22:04

i found a pelican 140 for about $80 us. how do i know if i am getting a 40s or 50's etc pen? the nib says 14c 585, and has the pelican logo on it. is this a semi flex nib or the ultra semi flex? how do i know how flexie this nib is by looking at a picture? the seller claims it is in perfect working order, i am on the fence with this purchase, can anyone help?

 

 

 The 140s were manufactured from 1952 to 1965.

 

 FOR EXAMPLE: My pen...

 

 IMG_20180114_125922.jpg

 

 ... Dates to about 1956.

 

 Here's the website I used to help me date my 140, (I'd recommend you access the pen catalogs for an EXACT year...)

 

 https://www.pelikan-...asis/index.html

 

 There are many factors, like the clip size, nib script, cap top, cap lip, etc. that can give you an accurate idea of when your pen was manufactured.

 

 

 NOW for the nibs...

 

 Most 140 nibs are semi- flexible. IF your nib has a "D" or has two breather holes, then you have a stiff nib.

 

 I think 140s with stiff nibs aren't very common, though...

 

 Hope that helps!



#25 whych

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Posted 17 February 2019 - 00:02

 

 NOW for the nibs...

 

 Most 140 nibs are semi- flexible. IF your nib has a "D" or has two breather holes, then you have a stiff nib.

 

 I think 140s with stiff nibs aren't very common, though...

 

Stiff nib is an under statement! You can use it to punch hole in a tin can and it will still be fine.

The D nibs were made for use for filling in forms with carbon paper. Esterbrook and other US manufacturers called them Manifold nibs.

 

I don't think the OP's nib is marked with the nib grade - it is an earlier nib before they started using grade markings.You can see examples on http://www.ruettinger-web.de/. (There is an English option on the site. The Geha information pages are only in German though.)


Edited by whych, 17 February 2019 - 00:02.


#26 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 17 February 2019 - 00:39

D nibs are used by mountain climbers who climb the North Face of the Eiger....or destroy battle tanks....the Nail's Nail.

I have one. One of my early 400's....'50-54.

Your 140 is a nice 'soft' semi-flex.

 

As you can see on those last pictures where the nib should sit from the bottom once you shove yours in enough to fit.

Wiggle it in, and write.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#27 AL01

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 02:42

Stiff nib is an under statement! You can use it to punch hole in a tin can and it will still be fine.

The D nibs were made for use for filling in forms with carbon paper. Esterbrook and other US manufacturers called them Manifold nibs.

 

I don't think the OP's nib is marked with the nib grade - it is an earlier nib before they started using grade markings.You can see examples on http://www.ruettinger-web.de/. (There is an English option on the site. The Geha information pages are only in German though.)

 

 Huh.

 

 Someone needs to test these nibs out.

 

 Are they has HARD as the Esterbrook Manifolds?

 

 Or do they make them look like baby food?



#28 TimeoDanaos

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 06:37

 
 Huh.
 
 Someone needs to test these nibs out.
 
 Are they has HARD as the Esterbrook Manifolds?
 
 Or do they make them look like baby food?

I haven't tried one of those, but Bo Bo is right, Pelikan's D nibs are mainly made for mountain climbers, as stabbing weapons for self defense and of course the odd carbon copy form. It is the hardest gold alloy I have experienced, it does not yield even a fraction of its width no matter how hard you press.

#29 Glenn-SC

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 16:32

Pelikan's D nibs are mainly made for mountain climbers, as stabbing weapons for self defense and of course the odd carbon copy form.

 

Some people don't care a bit for flex in any grade or degree.

Some of people prefer constant width lines when they write.
So a Manifold nib would have purposes even today (other than making copies).



#30 TimeoDanaos

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 17:03

 
Some people don't care a bit for flex in any grade or degree.
Some of people prefer constant width lines when they write.
So a Manifold nib would have purposes even today (other than making copies).

I am in total agreement with those people. I personally love writing with a rigid nib. Nonetheless it can be surprising to use a nib that stiff when you're used to nibs that are at least a little bit springy. And that's how most nibs are, at least in my collection.

#31 carlos.q

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 17:21

 

Some people don't care a bit for flex in any grade or degree.

Some of people prefer constant width lines when they write.
So a Manifold nib would have purposes even today (other than making copies).

 

 

Pelikan D nibs are awesome for taking rapid notes.



#32 penman88

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 19:37

any opinions on ink? would you consider most 140's (i know that there is subtle variations in manufacturing of that era) a wet or dry writing pen? perhaps a lubricated ink or a dry ink? i see the lamy blue writes beautifully but i don't own any lamy ink and would rather not buy a bottle for use in just one pen. i have noodlers eel blue, diamine sherwood green, noodlers midway blue, diamine wild strawberry, and higgins black fountain pen india (which is the cheapest ink i own but i absolutely love it! it writes great in all of my pens.) everyone has been wonderful in the help and advice offered! even through my stupid questions and even dumber comments...IE: ULTRA SEMI-FLEX NIB! 


 

Keep your thoughts positive because your thoughts become your words. Keep your words positive because your words become your behavior. Keep your behavior positive because your behavior becomes your habits. Keep your habits positive because your habits become your values. Keep your values positive because your values become your destiny 

 

 


#33 penman88

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 19:38

and how do i become a silver member? 


 

Keep your thoughts positive because your thoughts become your words. Keep your words positive because your words become your behavior. Keep your behavior positive because your behavior becomes your habits. Keep your habits positive because your habits become your values. Keep your values positive because your values become your destiny 

 

 


#34 PJohnP

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 20:26

any opinions on ink?

 

 

and how do i become a silver member? 

 

 

Inks are a very contentious matter for some folks on FPN, as some will tell you only to use "safe" inks (typically only pen manufacturer made) and others will run with about anything on the market.  Personally, I've found that even saturated or some of the IG inks have worked well in my 140s, but I do exercise good "pen hygiene" with regular flushing with fresh clear water between different ink choices.  I have Sailor Kiwa-guro in my Frankenpen right now, have used it there for months, and it just started right up on demand.  I've used Noodler's Zhivago and Kung-Te-Cheng in, respectively,  green and blue 140s successfully.  The pens are not left to dry out in the pen, pretty obviously, but they might not be used six times a day either.   Those last two inks are both known as being, to some degree, as "hard-starting" inks, and both are pretty saturated.  So far, so good with my using them in my rotations of inks in pens.

 

IMO, good pen hygiene has been the key to enjoying the pens with whatever ink I load them with in a given period.  If a specific ink doesn't perform well, I just clear it out of the pen and then flush it (repeatedly) to move to another "better" ink.  For the most part, I haven't had any significant staining of a pen, although I did use a blue M200 demonstrator for one infamous-within-FPN-ink widely alleged to stain pen bodies.  In the end, I had little to no trouble purging that ink from the pen, but I didn't find the ink to my liking in any event (i.e., excessive bleeding of the ink on most papers that I used at the time).

 

Note, though, that for me, pens are working tools.  I'm not running a pen museum - no matter the number of pens that I have - nor am I buying them as investments.  Over the decades, I've had a couple of pens irretrievably die on me, notwithstanding reasonably careful use and care of the pens with repair as needed.  My pens get used, and the inks that go through them change over time as well.  If you're planning on pens as investments, you'll surely take a different path than I do with inks and pens.

 

As for getting higher status within FPN, that's a function of the number of substantive posts (30+ posts) that a member makes over time (30+ days).  Have a look at the FPN Rules and Premium Accounts for a better understanding of how this progresses.  One of the Moderators can likely better explain how this functions in terms of the changes being posted to a member's account.

 

 

John P.


Edited by PJohnP, 18 February 2019 - 20:33.


#35 sansenri

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 21:23

The vintage nibs on the 140 are usually semi-flex apart from the manifolds.

Note they are not all alike, in fact to my experience having tried a few, they are all different! the same 14k M nib can be more or less flex, nib to nib...

So that does not mean they are full flex nibs that need any special attention in writing.

They are small nibs and tines are not too long so the 14k gold just provides some mild flex and very fast spring back.

What this means, unless you are trained to flex writing and really push the nib to accent the flex, is just that when writing normally you get some line variation without thinking about it. Some of the line variation also depends on the squarish tip of these nibs (stub effect).

That in my personal opinion is the main difference when comparing these nibs vs a modern steel nib (and some modern gold nibs too...).

That difference is even less evident if you compare vs a Pelikan steel nib, considering M200 nibs are among the most springy steel nibs around.

Of course there is a difference in behaviour and that difference, however small, may still be a big difference to some...

Vs modern Pelikan nibs flow is similarly generous, but usually tamed by the sharper shape of the nibs (and also depending EF to OBB...)

In general they are lovely writers.

My best bet for first try ink is Pelikan Royal Blue (but you can't go wrong with Waterman Serenity either)

fpn_1550524653__p1150356-3_pelikan_140s_

 



#36 penman88

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 22:21

i guess i wasnt looking for a specific ink as opposed to the propertys of the ink if that makes sense? like the 140 is well suited to dry inks/wet inks? it is a dry writing pen or it just dumps ink???? i have a ton of sample ink vials, i suppose i will just have to experiment with some until i find what works best? and no i dont buy pens as an investment...but rather i ask about ink to try to optimize my writing experience???


 

Keep your thoughts positive because your thoughts become your words. Keep your words positive because your words become your behavior. Keep your behavior positive because your behavior becomes your habits. Keep your habits positive because your habits become your values. Keep your values positive because your values become your destiny 

 

 


#37 AL01

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 23:03

 

Some people don't care a bit for flex in any grade or degree.

Some of people prefer constant width lines when they write.
So a Manifold nib would have purposes even today (other than making copies).

 

 

 +1.

 

 I enjoy all types of nibs!

 

 Personally I think that's part of the fun of fountain pens

 

 

i guess i wasnt looking for a specific ink as opposed to the propertys of the ink if that makes sense? like the 140 is well suited to dry inks/wet inks? it is a dry writing pen or it just dumps ink???? i have a ton of sample ink vials, i suppose i will just have to experiment with some until i find what works best? and no i dont buy pens as an investment...but rather i ask about ink to try to optimize my writing experience???

 

 

 Pelikans run weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

 

 IF you use nice paper, then don't be concerned about inks. 

 

 IF you use crappy paper like me: then use dry inks/iron gall inks.

 

 Personally, I have used Pelikan Blue/Black and Lamy Blue with good results.

 

 There are more exciting colors out there a well.

 

 Personally, I use very few inks, and my experiences have made me avoid Noodler's, but YMMV.

 

 Enjoy your pen!

.

 EDIT: Bad grammar, as always.


Edited by AL01, 18 February 2019 - 23:03.


#38 PJohnP

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 23:56

i guess i wasnt looking for a specific ink as opposed to the propertys of the ink if that makes sense? like the 140 is well suited to dry inks/wet inks? it is a dry writing pen or it just dumps ink???? i have a ton of sample ink vials, i suppose i will just have to experiment with some until i find what works best? and no i dont buy pens as an investment...but rather i ask about ink to try to optimize my writing experience???

 

I think that you have a decent plan to test the samples with your pen.  Nibs differ considerably, but more to the point, your experience in using the pen determines far more what ink is "suited" to you.  It's a new pen for you, and it will need a few test-drives for you to decide just how you like writing with it, and which inks support your decisions.

 

Personally, I like inks to be very smooth with the nib on the page, no or next to no bleeding on paper fibres, usually permanent or semi-permanent on the page to deal with the expected spills of water, and somewhat pleasing in colour.  Ink "sheen" isn't particularly important to me, however.  Other people esteem sheen highly, but not me.  So I don't gravitate to inks with sheen, but read other people's experience with interest and delight.  I use what I like for my pens, but have no illusions that my desires will necessarily match other people's, just as my shoes might not fit them comfortably.

 

On top of that, I'll compromise on nib/ink smoothness sometimes if a particular cursive italic or stub nib provides a level of discrimination in pen strokes on the paper.  For example, the Frankenpen 140  that I mentioned in an earlier post has a Parker Duofold nib mounted in it - this is a very distinctive feel in my hand, but it has more "drag" than most of my Pelikan nibs.  At first, I was not happy with the feel of the nib in the pen, but over time, I began to enjoy it as a change-of-pace in my writing, even though it has what is normally a very smooth ink, Kiwa-gura, in the pen.  In short, the ink and pen were certainly not optimum for me when I started to use them together, but I changed my mind with continued use. 

 

Different thoughts (and things) are good for me, to paraphrase a song by Tanita Tikaram.

 

Try a few samples in the pen and relate your experiences with the inks here in this thread.  With a few of these described here, members in FPN will be able to describe other inks similar to what you like or dislike, which could allow you to make further decisions.  You might find an optimal ink for the existing nib, or decide to switch nibs, or perhaps do both.   That's a large measure of the fun of having a pen like Pelikan where you can readily change nibs along with the incredible breadth and depth of inks available in 2019 !

 

I'll be looking for more posts from you.

 

 

John P.



#39 OMASsimo

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 23:58

You don't need to overthink the choice of inks. To my experience, vintage Pelikan nibs are so perfectly adjusted that they take just about any kind of ink equally well. These were high quality workhorse pens from the times when people needed a pen to write six days a week rather than to admire it on the weekend. Nobody cared about cleaning the pen, it simply was inked and used for years. And nobody would worry to disassemble the nib either to clean the pen. And guess what, you buy a 70 year old Pelikan, rinse it a couple of times with clear water, ink it up, and most likely it will write perfectly from the start. That's at least my experience.

 

I have several 100s, 140s, and 400s from the 1930s through 1960s and they are the least problematic writers of my entire collection. They work perfectly well with dry inks like Pelikan blueblack and wet inks like Waterman Florida blue or several Diamine inks. So, don't worry and just give it a try.



#40 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 01:47

Semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex are wet nibs, even wetter than the modern post'98 era Pelikan round blobby nibs. They are wet due to ease of tine bend and spread.

 

Don't try to do anything fancy......just enjoy the flair.

Later, you can look in a italic calligraphy book and learn to draw a few fancy decenders to add to the last word in a paragraph.

 

 

You don't have a regular flex (mostly vintage)  nib (They have become rare...in if many have them, they don't know it!!!!)....unless you have one of the so called Japanese 'soft' nibs.

It was once the regular issue of Sheaffer, Esterbrook, Waterman, Wearever and so on.

But if you did. The following three flexes are part of a 3 X tine spread set.

 

If you mash a regular flex nib hard, so it maxes....3 X tine spread a light down stroke. You can not write with the nib so maxed.

 

Semi-flex takes half that pressure to reach 3X.

You can write with the nib maxed out to 3 X, if you have the normal Ham Fist of most folks coming from Ball Point or Nail nibs.

It took me three months to lighten my Hand so I wasn't maxing the nib all the time.........actually perhaps half that time  for maxing all the time.....but I suggest reading Richard Binder's article on metal fatigue.

 

Maxi-semi-flex needs half of semi-flex or 1/4th the pressure needed to mash a regular flex/'soft' Japanese nib to 3 X.

 

Subjunctive of course....really helps to have an Esterbrook with a regular flex nib or a Pelikan 120 or 100/150 or 200 or some '50-60's Sheaffer/Waterman regular flex nibs. Those would be your basis nibs for understanding my flex system.

 

 

IMO chances of having a maxi is 1 in 5....in I got 28 semi-flex, 16 maxi's and 1/4 of that is Osmia/O-F-C Supra nibs which are maxi-semi-flex. Pelikan, MB and Geha make up most of my Maxi's, but I have no names that have that flex also.

Deguassa made the gold and silver in Germany and made nibs, and Osmia had both semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex that one could tell which was what. No other company is so marked.

My theory is when a pen company ordered a roll of gold to make nibs, they could just as easy have got Degussa's Supra nib roll as their semi-flex roll.

Regular flex = Springy +, semi-flex = springy ++, maxi-semi-flex = springy +++.

 

Do read Richard Binder's article on metal fatigue and strive not to max the nib....

xxxx

 

 

If you use mostly wet inks....and Noodler inks....are very wet inks often enough. Once Waterman was considered The Wet Ink, before Noodlers. Now many Noodler users consider Waterman a dry ink. :headsmack:

 

So what do you want the ink to do..............just a boring monotone vivid.....supersaturated ink?

Pelikan is a wet pen now in Pelikan 4001 ink is a dry one. Semi-flex will make the pen a wet writer also.

I do think it worth your while to lay hands on a cheap bottle of Pelikan 4001 ink. Just to say you have a dry ink, and see what that is all about.

 

Two toned shading ink? Actually Noodlers does have shading ink. Shading ink is drier.......but would require a good paper match to get that constantly from a semi-flex nib.

Semi-flex is more about line variation.....flair, than shading.

 

90g laser paper or laser&ink jet is minimum for shading inks. They will not shade on the common 80g copy paper.....Rhodia is not common copy paper, be it 80-or 90g.

 

I suggest buying a ream or a pack of good to better paper every time you buy three inks. That will soon get you a nice dance floor for your inks.

 

Writing is 1/3 nib width/flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink and in that order.

I did it wrong....I chased pens, then I chased inks....finally chased paper......should have mixed and matched all along. :happyberet:


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 






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