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Pelican 140,

pricing identification age value pelican 140 585 nib

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85 replies to this topic

#1 penman88

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 18:08

i found a pelican 140 for about $80 us. how do i know if i am getting a 40s or 50's etc pen? the nib says 14c 585, and has the pelican logo on it. is this a semi flex nib or the ultra semi flex? how do i know how flexie this nib is by looking at a picture? the seller claims it is in perfect working order, i am on the fence with this purchase, can anyone help?


 

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#2 whych

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 18:23

Basically, you won't know whether the nib is ultra flex or not till you get the pen.

As long as the nib looks fin and the piston seal works, the pen will be fine. Pelikan 140s seldom give problems.

Can't help with the price - I'm in Europe and usually get my Pelikans on German ebay.



#3 inkstainedruth

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 18:42

Is this on eBay?  In the classifieds?  Or somewhere else?

Can you contact the seller in any way?  Ask questions about the nib, any defects such as cracks or bite marks, maybe a photo of a writing sample (you say it may be semi-flex, but semi-flex what?  Fine?  Oblique Broad?).  But be advised that the seller may not have an answer

Without seeing pix, a lot of us will have no idea as to condition or date.  (According to what someone at Pelikan told me a few years ago when I contacted the company to get information on a M200 with the Bayer logo on it), the logo (especially on the cap) changes around every 7 years.  But I'm not so sure about the nib imprint.

Here's a website that might help you track down the time period for the pen you're looking at (I specifically gave you the link for the article on 140s):

https://www.pelikan-...asis/index.html

Hope this helps.

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#4 penman88

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 20:45

thank you!


 

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#5 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 22:34

#1 I think the 140 started in 1953/4....could be off a year, could be '55. It will have four combs/rills. The '30-40's 100/100n and Ibis have 3 combs/rills.

 

"""Is this a semi flex nib ;) (normal) or the ultra semi flex? :yikes: :yikes: They have that in 140??? First time I've heard that term. :unsure:

 

Well I have an after the war 100n in first stage of superflex, Easy Full Flex, but don't expect that on the old 400-140's.

 

Ah, There is a maxi-semi-flex, that is fairly rare in that era..............Outside Osmia's Supra nibs, be that gold or steel............but in other company's nibs have only seen it now that I think about it in gold.****

Subtracting my Osmia/O-F-C pens from the maxi flex set....think it's 1 in 5 that could be a maxi over a semi-flex. I have some 28 semi-flex and 16 maxi-semi-flex nibbed pens, including Osmia.

 

Do you have a regular flex nibbed pen?.....Japanese 'soft' nib could be that.....a that era 120 or a 200 are springy regular flex.............there are Esterbrook nibs that are regular flex....exactly which Sheaffer nib is regular flex you have to go to that sub-section.

 

With out one, I can't walk you through semi&maxi-semi-flex. The normal nail and semi-nail of course will not be of help at all.

 

4 to 1 it's semi-flex......press it against your thumb nail.... :)

With no experience, as a 'noobie' to semi-flex you won't be able to tell if it's semi or maxi.  (There are times when I need to check a suspected maxi vs a known semi.)

 

You see a semi-flex can withstand a Ham Fisted semi-flex nooble....was one when I got my semi-flex OB 140....took me some three months to lighten my hand enough I wasn't maxing the nib out to 3X a light downstroke all the time.

Maxi is a bit more delicate, in it only takes half the pressure of a semi-flex to reach 3 X tine spread.

 

Do Not spread the tines more than 3 X....on either of the flexes. In fact 2 X is well and good.

If you want to do fancy.....semi-flex is more flair. (don't have to do anything to get it.)............and needs more work to make a fancy decnender than a maxi.

Do go to a calligraphy book to see how to draw letters and letter parts....like decenders.

 

Neither is a Superflex, so are not made for spread the tines wide Copperplate or Spenserian writing.

If you go to Richard Binder's site, there is an article on metal fatigue. Every since reading it, I've stopped maxing my nibs........

 

**** It came to me sometime the week before, that Degussa was and still is the major gold and silver maker in Germany. They did make nibs for Osmia, and others having taken over Osmia's nib factory in 1932. Degussa was like Bock today....made nibs for many companies.

 

Osmia made a semi-flex and a maxi-semi-flex Supra nib............my WOG was sometimes Degussa made gold band rolls that were semi-flex and other times had some laying around that were maxi-semi-flex for the Osmia company that hadn't been ordered yet, and shipped what was there instead of waiting to give the pen companies their own regular semi-flex gold band rolls. 14 K was still 14 K, even if the other elements of the 14 K alloy were different.

 

Would explain the consistency of both flexes....that I've run into in MB, Pelikan, Geha and a few other companies.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

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#6 sargetalon

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 00:23

Its going to be a 50s or 60s pen because that is when these were made. $80 is a good price. Youll have to take your chance with the nib. Wont know its characterisitics till it arrives unless the seller can give you that info. The 140 is one of my favorites.

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#7 penman88

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 16:30

Posted 7 minutes ago i am worried that the nib looks a little funny? it appears someone filed or heavily polished the nib to bring the gold out. and there is an odd flat on the tipping i have never seen in any of my modern pens? was this just how they used to make them? can anyone tell me if this is f m or broad? can anyone help me with this? post-148001-0-40072700-1550160981.jpgpost-148001-0-73437100-1550161071.jpg


 

Keep your thoughts positive because your thoughts become your words. Keep your words positive because your words become your behavior. Keep your behavior positive because your behavior becomes your habits. Keep your habits positive because your habits become your values. Keep your values positive because your values become your destiny 

 

 


#8 whych

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 17:18

The nib looks fine - most German nibs of that era only used minimal tipping which is why the write so well.

Unlike the modern blob tipping you find today.



#9 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 23:00

As explained in the other thread, the nib needs to be set in the collar more. It's a bit too far out. Push in to the wide part of the feed is at the wide part of the shoulders of the nib.

 

Is supposed to be a stub nib...so the flatness of the tipping.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#10 TimeoDanaos

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 13:34

If it were my pen, I would disassemble the entire nib assembly and reset the nib (after polishing it with a jeweller's cloth, I like shiny nibs). Following Bo Bo's advice I would be worried that I warped the metal of the nib by pushing too hard on it.
The collar around the nib is just friction fit on the feed, so it is easily removed.

Just clean it of old dried ink first!

#11 penman88

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 18:33

well i purchased the pen. about 90$ us with shipping, i am hopeful that my first vintage pen isnt a flop... it looks like someone tried to clean the nib(poorly) and may have scratched it a little. as to the nib position, is there any other reason then a build up of old ink/dust that would prevent it seating in the housing? the seller sent me a writing sample and if it is infact writing from this pen it is a beautiful writing pen. this is a piston filler, correct? so there shouldnt be many things needing to be replaced? thank you for all of your help!


 

Keep your thoughts positive because your thoughts become your words. Keep your words positive because your words become your behavior. Keep your behavior positive because your behavior becomes your habits. Keep your habits positive because your habits become your values. Keep your values positive because your values become your destiny 

 

 


#12 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 20:07

After soaking the nib, just wiggle it in a bit more until it is seated fully.

You don't have a major problem....if the nib comes out....no big deal, just slide it in. Gently. But I see no reason to take the nib out, when it should from my reasoning, be easier to slide the rest of the way back into the collar.

 

Some folks have luck taking the collar off....others end up breaking the collar. Screw the nib back in...so the collar is supported and wiggle the nib home.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#13 whych

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 10:13

Don't look for problems where there perhaps aren't.

Try using the pen for a couple of days first before messing with the nib. Looking at the picture, the nib could be a broad, in which case you will get good line variation. The old nibs are not as broad as modern nibs, so it will give a pleasant line that should suit most people.

 

The secret with old Pelikan's is to soak everything first to make sure all the old ink is dissolved.

When you get the pen, soak the whole pen in water. Work the piston up and down while the pen is submerged to get water into the back of the piston. You will be surprised at how much dried ink is left over the years behind the piston.

Wash the inside of the cap out as well.

Leave the pen to soak with the piston half way for about half an hour and then work the piston again. When you are satisfied the back of the piston is clear of ink, fill the pen with water and leave it to soak nib down in a glass of water to clear any old ink from the nib.

 

Only after cleaning the pen of old ink do you try unscrewing the nib. If it doesn't move easily, keep soaking and flushing.

Remember, it probably took 50 years of died ink to get it all stiff and it will take time and patience soaking to get all the old ink out.

If the piston becomes stiff/hard to turn, don't ever force it, but soak to get water into the pen and keep trying to turn the piston periodically till it is free.

 

Most of the problems with stiff pistons is the ink that has dried at the back of the piston. By cleaning everything out, the piston should once again move freely and you shouldn't need silicone grease.

Most problems with scratchy nibs is the owner never soaked the nib first and used too much force to unscrew it, and managed to move the nib in relation to the feed, causing one tine to be higher than the other.



#14 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 10:35

Very good advice, properly stated.

Especially the misaligned nibs. (A common problem also caused by mailing.......don't happen with small pallets shipped to your B&M.) Easy to cure should yours be so.

 

 

If the ink comes out in a nice blue cloud ...you are lucky, it's Royal Blue of somebodies....The Very Best Ink, to leave in a fountain pen for 40-70 years. B)

If it comes out in strings....be that blue/black or black...it will take twice as long to clean out.

That was just about the only inks I've run into in my 50 or so piston pens.....the old folks back in the day were unimaginative with inks on the whole.

 

There is absolutely no reason to yank the pen apart looking for ghost ink behind the piston. Those main brand piston pens are not made to be taken apart like a Twsbi or an Ahab .... outside of for repair. It causes excessive wear on the pen....can and will ruin it.

 

 

I have no doubt my 140's are good for another 50 years.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#15 jmccarty3

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 15:38

is this a semi flex nib or the ultra semi flex?

 

You threw Bobo a nice fat pitch there.  :lol:


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#16 ENewton

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 15:38

My Pelikan 140 isn't flexible at all.  I expected a bit of line variation or a perceptible softness under normal writing pressure, but there is none.  It's a practical little pen, with a very nice shape and feel in the hand.  As others have said, the tipping is minimal, not blobby, and the nib has more feedback than a user of modern pens might expect. Right now I have two pens inked--the 140, unmarked but probably fine, and a Platinum 3776--and I'd say the Pelikan has more feedback than the Platinum.  

 

I've been tempted to ask a fountain-pen user with a heavier hand to try my pen and tell me whether the nib on mine is unusual for a 140, or whether my hand is simply much lighter than "normal," which is certainly possible.  The person from whom I bought it did make a strong point that older Pelikan nibs vary quite a bit from pen to pen because of having been finished by hand.  



#17 penman88

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 17:36

you dont think i should disassemble the whole pen and give it a good cleaning? i know alot of people dont take care of these older pens properly. especially in croatia where i purchased the pen from...


 

Keep your thoughts positive because your thoughts become your words. Keep your words positive because your words become your behavior. Keep your behavior positive because your behavior becomes your habits. Keep your habits positive because your habits become your values. Keep your values positive because your values become your destiny 

 

 


#18 penman88

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 17:42

haha yes my ultra flex nib question.... well i had recently read the various terms of semi flex nibs (having at that moment learned there was such a thing) and the various terms to describe them, so on impulse and with some poor recall i basically made up the ultra semi flex on the spot hoping i was remembering correctly and not making myself look ridiculous...no luck there 


 

Keep your thoughts positive because your thoughts become your words. Keep your words positive because your words become your behavior. Keep your behavior positive because your behavior becomes your habits. Keep your habits positive because your habits become your values. Keep your values positive because your values become your destiny 

 

 


#19 PJohnP

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 17:57

A decent cleaning of a new-to-you-previously-owned pen is always a good idea in the abstract, unless the pen was professionally serviced before your purchase.

 

Note, though, the term "decent cleaning".  This means gentle cleaning without harsh solvents, not scrubbing or "polishing" on the pen body with strong abrasives, very careful removal of nib assemblies, and, if one has some decent experience, perhaps a quite light lubrication of the piston.  Research on how to accomplish any or all of these measures is in order to avoid undesired consequences.  One can find good tutorials on these tasks here in FPN and elsewhere.

 

Personally, I've had some wonderful results with pens deemed at sale as "user-at-best" quality, redeeming them to much better standards, but I've always approached the tasks with a lot of care, sometimes completely stepping away from work on a pen.  In fact, I have a "Frankenpen", a deep-red-bodied 140 with a Parker nib installed that I've not changed over to a genuine 140 nib, as I can't easily free the Parker nib in collar from the pen body, despite long soaking and various other measures to loosen the collar/nib assembly.  Shrug.  The Parker nib actually writes extremely well, the body and cap of the pen are lovely, and the pen serves me nicely at my desk.

 

Sometimes, it's better to leave a pen "unrestored" than ruin it with ill-considered repairs...



#20 penman88

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 18:59

so no ammonia/pen flush?


 

Keep your thoughts positive because your thoughts become your words. Keep your words positive because your words become your behavior. Keep your behavior positive because your behavior becomes your habits. Keep your habits positive because your habits become your values. Keep your values positive because your values become your destiny 

 

 






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: pricing, identification, age, value, pelican 140, 585 nib



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