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Silver Czech Fountain Pen Identification

fountain pen czech silver identification

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#1 untoldpaige

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 23:41

Hi everyone!!

 

I'm new here and I’m hoping someone can help me identify this pen and/or get more information on it. What I’ve figured out so far is that it’s definitely of Czech origin based on the 14 carat gold nib saying “CZECHOSL”.
The cap also has a Czech silver mark of a goat head with a 3 underneath plus the US mark of 900 indicating that it’s 90% silver.
There’s another mark that I’m assuming is a makers mark but I haven’t been able to pull up info on it. It appears to say K1P but I’m not sure if it really is a “1”.

 

This was recently given to me after it was found in a desk. It was likely sitting unused for roughly 10 years but it cleaned up and polished up beautifully. Unfortunately the person who owned it has passed away and no one else knows its history.

 

Larger pictures of it can be found in the imgur album link below. It includes the full pen and close-ups of the cap's markers marks and the nib.

 

https://imgur.com/a/F5CPXvp

 

 

Thank you!!!

 

 

_DSC6381_sm.jpg


Edited by untoldpaige, 02 February 2019 - 12:55.


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#2 goodpens

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 11:32

Beautiful.

#3 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 12:30

If you use the line above the one you use in  igure, we can see the pictures with out taking a lot of time and clicking to your link.

Very beautiful pen.

 

By the way... :W2FPN:

 

You did a good job on polishing.

In it is a C/C pen....I'd not expect the nib to be semi-flex....though all things are possible.

With your post count, I do ask if you can tell us which flex the nib has?

 

If not, we all learn here on the Com....sooner or later you will know. Be able to press a nib onto the thumb nail and know what flex it is.

 

I am one of those who always wonder what flex a pen has; nail, or semi-nail.

These have three X tine spread vs a light down stroke....in different pressures, regular flex...(could be what the Japanese pen owners call soft), semi-flex, maxi-semi-flex.

Then there is superflex. Something that nib will not be....in that is '20-30's some '40's.

 

'Springy' nibs have good tine bend but only 2 X tine spread....common on the Falcon, or MB or Lamy Imporium nibs.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 02 February 2019 - 12:46.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#4 untoldpaige

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 13:19

I figured out the imgur gallery link and have updated that on my original post!

 

I'm not sure what a C/C pen is. I'm new to the world of fountain pens and I've just been buying pens from a woodturner on etsy! I have a small collection of different "standard" nibs but I've struggled with getting them all to work in my pens. I'm not sure if it's user error, feed, ink or nib error. Let's assume it's me!

 

This is the first time I've done nib test page like this so I hope I put everything that's needed on it. I didn't even know different flexibilities existed! From a quick google search I'm guessing it's somewhere in the Slight Flex to Medium Flex range. I'm not sure how much pressure is the right amount of pressure when using flex nibs. It railroaded quite a bit so I'm not sure if that's the fault of the nib or if I was trying to push it beyond its capabilities. I also used a notebook that isn't great so there's a good deal of feathering on the ink.

 

When testing it on my thumbnail it didn't feel like it took much pressure to make the tines spread. Again, I'm not sure if my gauge of pressure is correct.

 

51436230_2335518869805880_4425760281502679040_n_1.jpg


Edited by untoldpaige, 02 February 2019 - 13:30.


#5 sandy101

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 13:36

I did a search for Czechoslovakian fountain pens. A company name that is coming up is Barclay and Barclay Centropen (the company was called this after a merger after WW2). The pens were made in Prague. 

 

If you make a search for Barclay Fountain pen on e-bay you will see a list of similar pens with Czechosl written on the nib. 

 

It looks like a beautiful pen.  



#6 pen2paper

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 13:57

C/C is cartridge/converter, for pens designed to accept manufacturer pre-loaded cartridge ink or a converter device that draws & holds ink, both separate units from the pen.

Other types have a lever that depresses a sac, or internal piston to draw in ink.

Looks like a nicely performing nib. We're it mine I'd use gently on good paper to use it's semi-flex, avoiding heavy abrupt pressure that could crack or misshapen. (Railroading the clue).

Can't help ID but post 1918 exact spelling this of region + hallmark may help.
edit to note, Thanks Sandy101! (Zipped in quickly with ID while I'm plodding along at turtle speed :-)

Edited by pen2paper, 02 February 2019 - 14:10.


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#7 untoldpaige

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 14:29

pen2paper, I'm new to forums in general as well as pens. What does it mean to "post 1918 exact spelling this of region + hallmark"? Make a new post with a new title? What does the 1918 reference? From my research on the silver mark it seems it can only be as old as 1945.

 

I have only been able to find one posting of a pen that looks exactly the same but it also has very little information. It's being sold on ebay as a pen & pencil set. The pen has a different nib than mine.

https://www.ebay.com...33162300?chn=ps

 

And just as a note, I'm looking to find out more about it's history not an appraisal to sell.



#8 sandy101

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 14:48

The P means the pen was manufactured in Prague. The 1 means that the siver is of the highest quality according to this website for Czech hallmarks.

 

https://ceskamincovn...-products-1004/


Edited by sandy101, 02 February 2019 - 14:48.


#9 Lomarion

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 14:50

quite cool pen you have there

I'm not sure how much pressure is the right amount of pressure when using flex nibs. It railroaded quite a bit so I'm not sure if that's the fault of the nib or if I was trying to push it beyond its capabilities. I also used a notebook that isn't great so there's a good deal of feathering on the ink.

 

When testing it on my thumbnail it didn't feel like it took much pressure to make the tines spread. Again, I'm not sure if my gauge of pressure is correct.

the railroading is either the problem of pushing nib too hard, wrong ink, or most likely problem with the feed of the pen. I dont know in which conditions you got this pen but i can assume that it needs heavy cleaning, if there was dried old ink in the feed channel or bellow the nib itself and you just filled it with new it may have problems with flow of the ink, the first step would be to soak pen, if you can do disassembly then try to focus on the feed first by soaking it and working on it with the brush, removing any possible dried ink that left
about how much pressure you should apply, no one could tell you that because we doesn't have your hands to know how much of it you apply, but here what you can do to undestand your pressure (atleast that's how i did it) - first try to draw lines by gliding the nib over the page and see what line thickness you get, without applying any pressure at all, if it doesn't write like that apply a little bit of pressure with each new stroke, to the point when you start to feel resistance in the nib telling you that you should stop, the ideal range that will most likely doesn't damage your nib would be between first and middle stroke, where the last one is maximum flex that your nib could do and pushing it to that point often may cause problems


Edited by Lomarion, 02 February 2019 - 14:53.


#10 untoldpaige

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 14:55

The P means the pen was manufactured in Prague. The 1 means that the siver is of the highest quality according to this website for Czech hallmarks.

 

https://ceskamincovn...-products-1004/

 

That's interesting. Does the 1 not contradict the "900" and Goat Head 3 marks indicating it's 900/1000 silver?
I was assuming the K1P was a makers mark / jewelers mark. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong especially since I haven't seen that mark in the libraries I've searched.



#11 untoldpaige

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 14:58

quite cool pen you have there

the railroading is either the problem of pushing nib too hard, wrong ink, or most likely problem with the feed of the pen. I dont know in which conditions you got this pen but i can assume that it needs heavy cleaning, if there was dried old ink in the feed channel or bellow the nib itself and you just filled it with new it may have problems with flow of the ink, the first step would be to soak pen, if you can do disassembly then try to focus on the feed first by soaking it and working on it with the brush, removing any possible dried ink that left

 

The condition wasn't great. It was left in a desk for about 10 years with ink still in the feed & nib. Almost all of it had been used so there wasn't much left in the cartridge itself. I soaked it for about 20 minutes but didn't try to brush it because I was afraid of damaging it. The nib wiped clean very easily but I'll definitely try a soft brush on the feed.



#12 pen2paper

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 15:47

pen2paper, I'm new to forums in general as well as pens. What does it mean to "post 1918 exact spelling this of region + hallmark"? Make a new post with a new title? What does the 1918 reference? From my research on the silver mark it seems it can only be as old as 1945.
...
...I'm looking to find out more about it's history not an appraisal to sell.

Sorry to confuse. It's complicated history to contract in few words. After WWI the region combined, & attempting to maintain some ethnic identity the spelling varied before/after wars, & agreements.
By the time I hit "post", FPN pen historian's landed with hallmark details & links. You're in good hands.
Thanks for sharing your find with us!

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#13 Lomarion

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 15:48

 

The condition wasn't great. It was left in a desk for about 10 years with ink still in the feed & nib. Almost all of it had been used so there wasn't much left in the cartridge itself. I soaked it for about 20 minutes but didn't try to brush it because I was afraid of damaging it. The nib wiped clean very easily but I'll definitely try a soft brush on the feed.

well brushing it on only visible part of the feed will doesn't help much, you need to remove feed and nib completely, but without knowledge how to do it I guess it's better leave this process for later or for professional
Cleaning that you can perform without damaging anything is usually done by pen soaking and flushing it, it's enough to clean most pens, but 20 minutes of soaking maybe too short to clean it all, take a cup with warm distilled water and add a little bit of dish soap, then leave your pen parts here for few hours/overnight and shake it with stick occasionally, this should help to reactive all old ink that may be left inside of the pen, after you done depending on how dirty with ink the water became - either soak it again in new solution or clean it with regular water and leave it to dry. Bulb syringe may be of a huge help to you with this process
Also consider to watch Goulet Pen Company videos on youtube about how to clean fountain pen, they have new and old videos on how to do it.



#14 untoldpaige

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 16:22

well brushing it on only visible part of the feed will doesn't help much, you need to remove feed and nib completely, but without knowledge how to do it I guess it's better leave this process for later or for professional
Cleaning that you can perform without damaging anything is usually done by pen soaking and flushing it, it's enough to clean most pens, but 20 minutes of soaking maybe too short to clean it all, take a cup with warm distilled water and add a little bit of dish soap, then leave your pen parts here for few hours/overnight and shake it with stick occasionally, this should help to reactive all old ink that may be left inside of the pen, after you done depending on how dirty with ink the water became - either soak it again in new solution or clean it with regular water and leave it to dry. Bulb syringe may be of a huge help to you with this process
Also consider to watch Goulet Pen Company videos on youtube about how to clean fountain pen, they have new and old videos on how to do it.

 

Oh, I do know how to remove the nib and feed! I just didn't brush it out. I'll let it soak a bit longer and try the brush. Thanks!!



#15 sandy101

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 17:38

The P stands for Prague - the K1 might be a date code?

 

P was the symbol of the assay office in Czechoslovakia.

 

A hallmark is supposed to consist of the standard of sliver, the assay office and the date.

 

So the goat is the silver, the P is for Prague and the K1 (if indeed it is a 1) must be the date.   


Edited by sandy101, 02 February 2019 - 17:41.


#16 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 18:04

What you need in it is a cartridge pen, is a rubber bulb syringe, often called a baby ear syringe.

The opening of the spout fits normally quite well over the spike that pierces the cartridge. Need a Bathroom sink, half full of water.

 

Suggest the first time, fill the bulb syringe then put the spout over the spike....after that just keep squeezing. Sooner or later the water will go through clean.Then take a paper towel, fold it, shake the pen like an old time thermometer....fold the towel....put in a cup and wait 3-5-8 hours for all the ink to wick out into the paper. Then the nib is clean.

 

 

If you can find a needle syringe....go to your pharmacist, tell him what you want it for....a wide long needle and a 10-12mm syringe to fill that cartridge with ink of your choice.

I've always found cartridges to be very expensive even back in the '50's....so refilling a cartridge is cheaper even if using expensive ink, than buying a cartridge.

 

I don't know what cartridge that is, but Pelikan, Waterman, and Parker ware 'international' so might fit. I chase piston pens so am behind when it comes to cartridges.

You have a converter that fits your pen, so you can save money on ink.

 

You have already learned a lot.....but one needs to go to Richard Binder's site, it is the bible of fountain pens; info on nibs, filling systems, good advice on inks and so many grand :puddle:pictures of beautiful old pens.

Will take you some three days to read through.

 

Pay much attention to his article on Metal Fatigue ....so one don't press too hard, too often.

 

With a nice friendly smile we will push you off the Ink Cliff...............we are living in the Golden Age of Inks.

You will be caught by a nice thick pad of good to better  papers.

(The Golden Age of Pens died in 1970...The Golden Age of Paper @ 1980.... :crybaby:And no one told me about it..........sigh cubed....but by then I was a Ball Point Barbarian. Don't think anyone knew Paper had died....it wasn't in the newspaper's obituary Colum. :bunny01:

 

Writing is 1/3 nib width/flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink and in that order.

 

When you get over to Ink Reviews, pay attention to our Ink Guru, Sandy1 :notworthy1: :thumbup:, with 4 normal width nibs....on 4 papers.....(If one goes back far enough there will be 7 fine papers. :thumbup: ) It was such a great shock :yikes: , with different nib width or on different paper....the ink was so completely different one can't believe it's the same ink.

xxxxxxxxx

 

Do strive to keep the fountain pen behind the big index knuckle of your writing hand, not before it like with old style...pre-gel ball points. Let the pen rest at 45 degrees right after the big knuckle, 40 degrees at the start of the web of the thumb.....or if the pen is heavy or long, let it rest in the pit of the web of the thumb.

The Key is ..... let it rest...........don't force it to be at one angle or another, or you will be using too much pressure just to hold the fountain pen.

 

Hold it lightly, like a featherless baby bird.

:angry:Don't make baby bird paste!!!

 

 

And you made good progress on what your nib is............ :thumbup: :notworthy1:Looks like a real fun nib!!! :happyberet:  :puddle:

 

 

900 silver is called coin silver in the US.....the Germans had 800 silver to about middle '30's when they went to the Scandinavian 835....in they could export it easier.

 

There are Russian silver at @ 875, coin silver at 900,  Sterling silver is 925....and there is a Russian silver at 937(= 90/96 Zolotniki & 84*** zolotniki = 875%)) also.....believe there is a Scandinavian silver at 935 also.....depends somewhat in what era....and or country. the 935 could be Norwegian.....

 

 

*** Yep, one can learn something every day here, even after years....and there is no test so learning is fun.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 02 February 2019 - 18:16.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#17 MilanKov

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 19:56

I would say it looks like centropen I saw similar one in antique store. I think the model might be Barclay Centropen 1304 I am not 100% sure.

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#18 sandy101

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 22:03

It gets more complicated - K is also the mark for the assay office in Kosice.

 

So the K1P could mean it was assayed in both Kosice & Prague . It is not impossible as Slovakia had a devolved government (what that meant under Communism, I don't exactly know) - so it is entirely possible that both marks were used.   

 

Sadly, I can't find a handy guide to Czechoslovakian date marks. So, I would assume we either have the mark for two assay offices and the 1 is a stroke to seperate them, or one is hte assay office and the other is the date code, or the 1 is the date code and the K & P are assay offices.

 

That's three reasonable assumptions from what I've seen.  



#19 Kaweco

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 22:24

I would say it looks like centropen I saw similar one in antique store. I think the model might be Barclay Centropen 1304 I am not 100% sure.

Actually: Yes

Thomas



#20 wspohn

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 22:50

I own a Barclay 1304 - nicely made pens and good writers.


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