Pelikan Vs. Montblanc?

[outsidephilly]

To me, both are great options and both have major faults.

 

My 149 is a workhorse! The trouble is that in much the same way that older Rolexes are made to be workhorses, these two examples sell far beyond their true worth. There is no way there is 1K worth of anything in my 149 (excluding marketing). Same goes for a $12K Rolex submariner. It's a steel watch, people have lost their minds.

 

The upside to this situation is that they are reliable and extremely durable. I sold a box full of Parker 51s and 75s. Each of them beautiful but time hasn't been kind to those pens. Rubber sacks don't last, the gold plating was too thin, the nibs are tiny and not particularly impressive (51s). You don't find that on older 149s (or rolexes). You will pay through the nose on service for both of the aforementioned items though.

 

Pelikan: Less money spent on marketing. You can easily go to a meeting and no one will have any idea that you are writing with a pen that retails for 800+ us dollars. As someone mentioned, MB doesn't make a lower line of pens (anymore, they did.. and they were great). In fact, my oldest pen is a Pelikan m200 that I got in second grade. The nib got upgraded to a gold m400 nib a few years later. Its still inked and it still gets used! The downside of the brand is the nibs. They aren't standard, some soft, some stiff, and the sizing is out of control. MBs write wet, but one medium nib is almost the same as another medium nib. Not the same with Pelikan.

 

So, in summary, both are very expensive pieces of plastic (sorry! "precious resin") with maybe 50 dollars worth of gold in them. Both are fun to write with, one gets you noticed, the other has a bird on the cap. Both (149 and m805) are fully inked and ready for use on my desk.

[Bo Bo Olson]

P-51's fiberglass sacs should have been good, not the P-75.

 

Not everyone wants a nail.....some folks want a 'soft' semi-nail.

In the 'rare earth' tipping is more expensive than gold....I'm very happy they save money by keeping the 200's nib a nice springy still narrow nice ride nib of yesteryear.

 

I'm glad Pelikan is 'inconsistent' or I'd own no 200 or 150.............I don't like the fat and blobby modern nib, be it the semi-nail 400/600, nail 800 or the fat and blobby 1000, in regular flex. If I was to ever run into a semi-flex 1000, I would have it stubbed and have the blobby removed.

 

 

Not inconsistent nibbing.....but allows choice. (semi-vintage and vintage are different eras so don't count for now.........I do recommend them as the better nibs..............................unless butter smooth is the one and only thing that counts. )

 

Modern nibs, post '98 regular flex steel 150/200. Half a width narrower than modern. (As good as the 14k semi-vintage 400.) Another case where gold is as good as steel.

Semi-nail 14 K 400/600, fat and blobby, butter smooth with often baby bottom.

nail 800...same fat and blobby gold nib.

For semi-nail and nail....butter smooth is something to aim at with a characterless boring nib. There is enough tipping to make a fat smooth nib.

 

1000 semi-flex made by Bock, regular flex made by Pelikan when they took it back in House @ 2010. Don't know about the Bock nib but my 1005 is a fat and blobby 1/2 a width wider OBB than small 600 OBB.

 

If one goes back with MB it's nibs change too. '50-70 they are semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex in the 1xx-2xx. My 3xx is a nail. The nib is thin as Pelikan then. My 234 Deluxe KOB semi-flex could possibly pass for OF today fat MB nib era.

My '70-80 Large 146 is a regular flex.

My 2006 Woolf is the 'normal' wide stubbish 'Springy' modern MB nib.

 

Outside the 200/150, modern Pelikan and MB make fat nibs. I don't know when Lamy started making fat nibs.

At least the 150/200 is still thin, still a comfortable riding regular flex.

 

IMO, vintage has the much better nibs..........it just limited to the 149 if you want a large or oversized pen......in the 146 then was a medium-long pen, like a P-51. I do prefer the better balanced, better nibbed medium large 146 over the Large 146.

 

Semi-vintage.............springier regular flex W. Germany nibs up to @ '90, nice regular flex nibs to '97. My semi-vintage MB 146 has a nice thin regular flex. (who knows what size...in MB stopped marking pens to what size they were.)

 

Semi or maxi-semi-flex nibs '50-65..............not going to go where I've not been....pre-war Pelikan or MB.

Semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex are not marked in that era....not by any company but Osmia. Pure luck of the draw in any be that Pelikan, MB or Geha or other companies.

 

Degussa was the gold and silver maker in Germany....I was just wondering if the other companie's MB, Pelikan maxi-semi-flex nibs were that they were getting from a roll of gold originally made to make Osmia Supra gold nibs....in maxi. Degussa took Osmia's nib factory for debt in 1932 and continued making nibs for everyone, (Not MB or Pelikan) Geha....and even Soennecken towards the end.

It is a new thought, but the only logical explanation of why some nibs were normal semi-flex and others maxi-semi-flex. In it is the alloy as far as I can eyeball....the nibs look the same...........could maxi be a slight tad narrower. Yes, but I don't have laboratory took shop.

Either way, Degussa was the major gold and silver maker in Germany and made nibs it's self.

If it wasn't the alloy.......Could be one more pass through the rollers was the difference between semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Bo Bo Olson

[sirgilbert357]

P-51's fiberglass sacs should have been good, not the P-75.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but this drives me crazy...they were marketed as "Pliglass". And they are made from PVC. There is no fiberglass in the Parker ink sacs...

[outsidephilly]

I've never seen fiberglass crumble to pieces but please believe me that I have seen plenty of 51s opened up and brownish rubbery bits pouring out of the pen bodies.

[Ron Z]

I've never seen fiberglass crumble to pieces but please believe me that I have seen plenty of 51s opened up and brownish rubbery bits pouring out of the pen bodies.

 

There is the occasional pen mechanic who puts a latex sac in an aerometric 51. Vac 51s of course used latex diaphragms

[chravagni]

 

 

 

When I was like 5 years of age, I learned to write in school. And there was two sorts of pens for pupils: "Geha" and "Pelikan", both with cartridges.

 

 

This post makes me dream of my youth. In Italy, in the '70s, you had as school pen either the Aurora Auretta or the Pelikano Antimacchia (same as the Pelikano 4 but with plastic cap). Auretta wasn't so child friendly, with that flat nib. So Pelikan was the best option, and this is the story. Then the following models (including Primapenna) and so on until now. I like also some other brands, but have a Pelikan soul.

[Uncial]

Pelikans in my experience are a little bit wetter. The M100 is certainly wetter - a real gusher of a nib. I love it.

[invisuu]

I really didnt care for MB 149. Bought it, used it for an hour, put it in the box. My wife, on the other hand, loved it. Much more than my Pelikans.

 

I have not thought of that MB since that moment until now. And I still have no wish to pick it up. Felt kinda cheap and plasticky to me. Cap rattling around the thread, the piston mechanism is garbage compared to Pelikan, etc.

 

That said, I will easily say Pilot Custom 823 is a far superior pen to Pelikan M800.

[TLMG]

These are all amazing replies. Really giving me the Pelikan itch

[Bo Bo Olson]

 

 

I'm sorry, but this drives me crazy...they were marketed as "Pliglass". And they are made from PVC. There is no fiberglass in the Parker ink sacs...

Sorry about that.

Had I hung around on the Parker sub-section I'd know it was Pli-glass, but I don't, and someone once called it fiberglass and that stuck in my mind.

Still one hell of a product............in the running for the best product of all times, still being good 70-80 years later.

(Sort of ignorant of what exactly PVC is. and just think Plastic was brand new back then. Plastic came on big in WW2, keeping military supplies dry.)

Back before the net....plastic was plastic, unless one was in the plastic business, no one differentiated...so on plastic I wander around in big circles saying....duh.

 

outsidephilly, on 29 Jan 2019 - 00:14, said:

 

I've never seen fiberglass crumble to pieces but please believe me that I have seen plenty of 51s opened up and brownish rubbery bits pouring out of the pen bodies.

xxxxxxxxxx

""""There is the occasional pen mechanic who puts a latex sac in an aerometric 51. Vac 51s of course used latex diaphragms"""""""""

 

That explains things.....I only have one P-51, one Snorkel also....living in the 'wrong place', ....when one adds US overseas postage, cheap becomes expensive fast.

Edited February 2, 2019 by Bo Bo Olson

[ygv]

For some reason i cannot explain i prefer MB. Design and better top end options perhaps.

Edited February 2, 2019 by ygv

[invisuu]

These are all amazing replies. Really giving me the Pelikan itch

I dont get it. Youre getting the Pelikan itch but at the same time youre selling a Pelikan in the mall section. Clearly you have had a Pelikan before. Whats the deal here?

[GutSchrift]

and? so what?

[dneal]

I tend to prefer Pelikan, except when it comes to the M800/146 comparison. I have owned a few M800s, but just can’t get them to sit comfortably in my hand. I have M200s, 400s, 600s and have owned some vintage 100s.

 

Montblanc is the exact opposite. I got rid of a 145 and 149 due to feel, but my 146 is extremely comfortable to write with for extended periods.

[max dog]

I find the MB nibs generally have more character than Pelikan nibs in my experience so far. Havent tried an M1000 or M800 so I reserve judgement on those.

[outsidephilly]

I brought my MB149 and my Pelikan 805 to be adjusted by a nibmeister at the local pen show. Now they both write bone dry! this service is a great investment if you plan on using fountain pens every day.

[invisuu]

and? so what?

Trying something is antithesis to not trying something?

[CoolBreeze]

I have owned, and repaired both brands of pens. I still own my Pelikan 800s. I have sold every 146 and 149 I've owned.

 

Montblanc pens can be problematic to repair. The sections on many are just a sleeve, held captive by the nib collar, sealed with a low shear strength silicone compound. Taking the nib unit out risks cracking the section. If something at the back end like the spindle breaks on them, replacing it is a pain in the tush. I really don't like working on them because its difficult to find parts. Lubricating the seal requires disassembly of the back end of the pen.

 

Pelikans on the other hand seem to be much less fragile. They are repairable, and as has been noted, the nibs are interchangeable. The piston seals are more resilient and last longer. No special sealant is needed. I don't like that the lower end pens (600 and below) have a snap in mechanism which makes pulling them a bit of a challenge, but it rarely needs to be done if you put a little silicone grease on a cotton swab and wipe the inside of the barrel with it. The mechanism on the 800 and 1000 pens screws into the barrel, but outside of that the parts are the same (including piston seal size) 100 through 1000.

This is really interesting information! I didn't know about the MB section that you describe. Is that true of modern day ones?

 

I did know about the MB back-end spindles from the Sbrebrown vids. It always looked fragile to me. The m800/1000 piston design of the pelikan looks superior to me. However, I will admit, I am not sure how often this comes it to play in real life as I am sure a lot of MB owners don't disassemble thier pens but I love the option to. Just as I love the option to unscrew the nib to clean the pen easier.

 

I would also be interested to hear about durability issues between the two with regards to everyday use. I.e. Barrel/cap cracking if dropped, cap threading, cap rings coming loose, etc. I think a few mentioned caps that are loose on MBs. I just read in the Italian section that a guy dropped is Aurora Optima on the carpet and it snapped in half. I understand they are anecdotal but it would be interesting to hear nonetheless.

[sirgilbert357]

I just read in the Italian section that a guy dropped is Aurora Optima on the carpet and it snapped in half.

 

 

I saw a brand new Aurora Optima snap in half at a pen show as the guy was sliding it back into the elastic band of the leather zip up case the seller was displaying the pens in. Had it's cap on and everything. Not a pretty sight. I swore to never buy an Optima after seeing that.

 

Also at a pen show: I was looking at a used M800, and a used MB146 side by side, with a (also used) MB149 for comparison. There were two guys working this table, the employee and the owner. The employee was helping me, and the owner walked by, in the midst of assisting another customer, and eyeballed the pens I was comparing. He stopped just long enough to lean in and say "The Mont Blancs are (bleep) compared to a Pelikan, just saying...". This is the owner of the table! LOL. About two mins later he had finished with the other customer and came back and explained his position. He basically said that the Pelikan's piston is easier to service, lasts longer and the swappable nib units were just the icing on the cake. I was never super attracted to MB pens anyway, but that the owner made that kind of comparison and I already own two M800's...well, I just thought, why get a MB then?

Edited February 14, 2019 by sirgilbert357

[CoolBreeze]

 

 

I saw a brand new Aurora Optima snap in half at a pen show as the guy was sliding it back into the elastic band of the leather zip up case the seller was displaying the pens in. Had it's cap on and everything. Not a pretty sight. I swore to never buy an Optima after seeing that.

 

...He basically said that the Pelikan's piston is easier to service, lasts longer and the swappable nib units were just the icing on the cake.

That's crazy about the Aurora - They are beautiful pens. Do you know if it cracked at the ink window (like the guy who dropped his on the carpet) or on some other point of the "auraloid"?

 

I hear you about Pelikan - I haven't formulated an opinion either way about which is "better" but as far as "features - I really really really like the easier to service aspect and swappable nib units.

Edited February 14, 2019 by CoolBreeze