Expert Opinion Needed: Pre-Globe #12 With Ribbed Section

January 16, 2019

I recently picked up a MHR Waterman #12 with ribbed section to add to the collection and was hoping someone could tell me whether the cap is correct. I've narrowed down the date of manufacture to 1897-1900 based on the so-called "Second" pre-globe imprint, narrow 3-channel feed, and star nib. But I don't know anything about the production dates for pens with ribbed sections.

The cap fits well, its slightly more rounded profile at the top (peculiar to Watermans of this vintage) matches that of the barrel butt, and the mottled pattern is consistent between the cap and the barrel. But unlike most other #12s I've seen, there is no groove at the bottom of the cap and the vent hole placement is lower. I've inspected it under a loupe but there is no cap imprint evident. The pen has a longer barrel and its capped length (142mm) is 10mm longer than my two later #12s (pictured), but the length of its cap is roughly the same (64mm).

I've considered that the cap could've been shortened, but there are no obvious signs of this and I don't know how long the caps on these early, longer models were supposed to be. Does anyone know whether this cap would be correct – perhaps an anomaly of early production? Or is there something else going on here?

Barring that, might someone have a #12 with ribbed section for which you could provide a cap measurement?

A couple photos, with the pen in question on the left (bottom imprint in 2nd photo):

Edited January 16, 2019 by Estragon

January 22, 2019

Wow what a beauty. I don't own any Ideal pens this vintage, but looking at the catalog from 1897 it looks like near the end of the star nib, and still has cap lip groove except those pens with stepped sections. Shortening the cap doesn't explain the vent hole location, but the rounded ends look consistent with some pens I'm sure you saw the same. I would vote for original cap with worn/ smoothed cap lip...my vote really isn't worth that much though ha.

February 10, 2019

Beautiful.

February 10, 2019

I have a black version of the pen you describe: same imprint; ribbed section; star nib.

The cap has an incised line around the cap lip. Cap length is 63mm.

The cap has a Patent Pending imprint and one vent hole, which is 12mm from the domed top.

Length of pen capped is 136mm.

I hope this helps.

February 12, 2019

Thanks to everyone for the input.

crescentfiller: Very helpful indeed, much obliged. At 108mm from end of the section to butt, I'm wondering if my barrel might be longer than yours (given that my cap is only 1mm longer and my capped length 6mm longer).

In any case, your measurements lend further support to the idea that what I have is in all likelihood not a shortened cap but rather a cap with non-standard features (no incised line and different vent hole placement). Whether this is because it's a cap from a different pen or an aberrant Waterman's, I still can't say. I've seen AA Waterman eyedroppers with and without the incised line, but don't recall whether I've ever seen an LE Waterman like that. The comparison photos above show how tremendous the variation in HR patterns can be between the same model of pen from the very same brand. And I'd think the variation would be even greater between pens of different makes. Yet the pattern and color of this one is entirely consistent between the cap and the barrel.

Short of another example of this pen cropping up with this sort of cap, however, I suppose the evidence is insufficient to decide the matter one way or another.