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Leonardo Momento Zero Hawaii

leonardo hawaii italian

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108 replies to this topic

#41 Karmachanic

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 21:59

 

The pen looks beautiful, but I can't justify another pen at this point. These days for me, the nib is more important than the pen, so I look forward to receiving a Leonardo stub from Fontoplumo. Should it work for me the pen is definitely going on the wish list.

 

Leonardo stub arrived today. Apart from the inscription it is a standard Bock nib, which is not a problem for me as I prefer a Bock to its rival. 100% markup for an inscription is OTT however.

 

Writes a smooth crisp BB line, with the characteristic, pleasant, slight Bock softness.  I would not have normally purchased a nib this wide. It will see regular use.


"Simplicate and add Lightness."


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#42 TSherbs

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 23:07

I don't like the look of this acrylic, but these testimonials make me interested in the pen.

#43 A Smug Dill

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 23:17

Leonardo stub arrived today. Apart from the inscription it is a standard Bock nib,


I wonder if that's the same for Leonardo's other nib sizes?
As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.

#44 Karmachanic

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 07:50

I wonder if that's the same for Leonardo's other nib sizes?

 

Can't see why one nib out of a line would be made to a different standard. All the pens are made to the same standard, no?


"Simplicate and add Lightness."


#45 A Smug Dill

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 07:56

All the pens are made to the same standard, no?

 

 

In terms of form factor, yes.

 

TheDutchGuy and others on here have specifically mentioned how bouncy the steel F nibs on their Leonardo Momento Zero pens are. I'm not sure if they've used other Bock nibs of the same size before, and/or whether they are comparing that 'bounciness' against that on 'standard' steel Bock nibs. The gist of my question is whether a bog-standard Bock steel F nib would feel the same to them as a differently-inscribed Leonardo steel F nib (or M nib compared against M nib, etc.).


As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.

#46 Karmachanic

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:54

Tangentially related in that it speaks to the springyness of Bock steel nibs. Scroll half way down to get to the steel part:

http://www.clumsypen...teel-bock-nibs/


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#47 TheDutchGuy

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 14:10

These steel F nibs are totally different (in terms of how they write) from any Bock nib I've ever used. Personally it doesn't really matter to me who makes those F nibs. They're awesome! I didn't like the stub much, though.

#48 A Smug Dill

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 14:23

What I'm wondering is whether I can buy some customised Bock nibs from FPnibs.com later this year to swap perfectly into the Leonardo pens, to enjoy the same sort of feel as the factory EF nib but get narrower lines out of them.


As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.

#49 Karmachanic

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 14:47

These steel F nibs are totally different (in terms of how they write) from any Bock nib I've ever used.

 

Verrry Interesting.


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#50 Balekan

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 05:11

I absolutely love my Blue Hawaii! So much so, I now have three nibs for it. A medium, medium CI (Masuyama) and a fine.

 

This pen is the best pen out there in its price range right now, IMO.

 

Here is a review with pictures that are amazingly beautiful.

 

http://www.clumsypen...to-zero-hawaii/



#51 A Smug Dill

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 06:36

I finally got tired enough of the EF nib on my Leonardo Momento Zero behaving increasingly strangely, so I decided to look at it through a loupe. Lo and behold, there were multiple issues with it:
  • The slit was not cut through the tipping symmetrically, and consequentially the right tine with roughly 60% of the (otherwise properly oriented) bean-shaped tipping was significantly longer. That was causing left-to-right strokes to sometimes not get sufficient ink flow, while the right-to-left can be toothy as the longer tine is dragged across the paper, occasionally resulting in either skips or small gushes of ink.
  • The slit was relatively wide most of the way down, although not so much that it prevented capillary action from happening, but at the very tip the tines continuously applied significant pressure against each other. It looked a bit like the top half of a pair of paretheses () where the ends are touching each other. Flossing it with a piece of plastic film (one of the cleaning aids that came with my Pilot Parallel pen) proved quite difficult, and the when I finally got the film between the tipping material, moving it between the vice-like grip of the uneven halves damaged the surface of the film slightly, without doing anything towards opening the slit up. LIfting the tines one after the other with a fingernail, then pushing it back down firmly against the feed, didn't do much to relieve the pressure, let alone fix it. It took pulling the nib and feed out of the section, and manipulating the piece of metal on its own, to have any effect. As it turned out, that was helping hide a different problem.
  • With the right tine having a larger share of tipping, the material below the plane of the nib body was also thicker on that tine. Therefore, when I wrote with the nib in normal orientation, I could see, once the two tines aren't pushing so hard against each other at the tips, by glimpses of the ink travelling down the slit that the right tine was being lifted and sorta bobbing up and down, contributing to greater wetness of the nib. The nib also squeaked as I wrote, because the tips of the tines were still pressing against each other continuously, just not as hard.
  • As I'm quite apt to 'reverse-write' with the nib in upside-down orientation, in order to achieve a narrower line width, that has the net effect of pushing the right tine back against the feed after a few words. That explains why every time I switched orientation of the nib when writing, it would start off writing thinner lines, and then the lines became broader quickly; I was writing with a corner of the inside of the longer and thicker right tine, until the tines got 'aligned' again.

It took a couple of hours, many attempts (because I just don't have the expertise and experience), and terrible ink stains on my fingers to now get the nib to have somewhat balanced tipping on both tines and write without squeaking. I think it's writing marginally finer now than when I first got the pen, but still nowhere near as fine or well (but it's smoother) compared to the steel EF nib on my Diplomat Aero.
As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.

#52 TheDutchGuy

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 07:19

It took a couple of hours, many attempts (because I just don't have the expertise and experience), and terrible ink stains on my fingers to now get the nib to have somewhat balanced tipping on both tines and write without squeaking.

 

Personally I'd have sent a photo of the defects to the retailer that sold you the pen, and ask to send you a new nib. Perhaps a new EF would have been more to your liking.



#53 A Smug Dill

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 10:28

Personally I'd have sent a photo of the defects to the retailer that sold you the pen, and ask to send you a new nib. Perhaps a new EF would have been more to your liking.

 

Perhaps. However, doing a whole photo essay, especially if I have to try to photograph a nib through the loupe I have in ways that demonstrate the different aspects of the defects, would just be 'too difficult'. Photographing writing samples when the page just sits on the desk with the loupe on top of it, then I could focus on manipulating the digital SLR camera. Trying to hold the pen and turn it at the correct angle to make the defect(s) evident looking through the loupe, then secure both in place (suspended or otherwise in mid-air, so to speak) and then manipulate the camera to focus and capture a clear image is a whole different challenge.

Morever, does a nib on which the tipping is not split symmetrically, but arguably still writes, necessarily count as a defect warranting an exchange? Again, maybe it isn't common thinking elsewhere, but in Australia just being not satisfied with how something is made is not automatically reason enough to return it with expectation of an exchange or full refund; it has to be defective, and/or not fit for the purposes it was marketed and sold, and/or significantly different from the product's description, and/or otherwise not of merchantable quality, to be a cut-and-dry case of the customer being entitled to exchange or refund; and, while individual retailers can have more generous return policies, the mindset remains how we by default think of consumer purchases.

Edit:
I just did half a page of writing with it, on the same sort of paper and with the same ink that I used on the writing sample I uploaded a month ago, and I can see the lines put down by the nib are actually significantly thinner and 'drier'; Pilot Iroshizuku kon-peki now appears light blue at my normal writing speed, although the wetness of the line and thus intensity of the colour can be easily increased by either my slowing down, or applying more pressure to cause the tines to bend. Now I can enjoy writing with this pen without turning the nib upside-down! Win!

 

Writing samples: Now, versus when it was new.


Edited by A Smug Dill, 25 February 2019 - 01:06.

As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.

#54 TheDutchGuy

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 12:03

I fully agree with not returning stuff just because you can. Point taken. However, your first bullet about the asymmetrically cut nib is an objective defect.

#55 como

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 16:59

 

Interesting to hear what you say about breaking the pen in. I recently bought a momento zero with a steel broad, writes great but keeps running dry. Then I have to turn convertor to force ink back into feed. I have set it aside because it was a bit of a disappointment. Maybe I just need to try a few different inks! Also was thinking that the paper might also be a factor?

 

I had exactly the same issue w Leonardo Furore (steel nib). The nib/feed is friction fit, so I pulled the nib/feed out, and washed them with diluted dishwasher and a soft old toothbrush. They were a bit sticky. Then I ran a thin blade through the feed channel. Put everything back and all works perfectly now.



#56 Purplecate

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 08:58

I bought this pen with an EF nib from Izods and was a little taken a aback when it arrived as the nib clicked and squeaked when I wrote with it, not something I've experienced before. Not sure quite what the problem was but my inexpert guess was tines too tight and I asked Roy what he thought. He didn't hesitate to offer to replace the nib and feed and I'm waiting expectantly for this beautiful pen to return.

This was almost the first £50 + pen that I have bought (and my first Italian one) and I was somewhat nervous of getting a poor pen (Visconti reviews have made me wary). I read/watched all the reviews and comments and eventually went with a reputable retailer rather than the cheapest deal I could find. As a newbie, I don't have the confidence to do much to a nib beyond the basics (I have pulled a few out for cleaning but major adjustments are a bit scary). I understand that poor nibs can slip through the QA process and I also recognise that what I might consider "defects" may in fact be characteristics of a nib - I'm learning all the time. Thanks to retailers such as Roy at Izods, I now feel more confident about buying more expensive pens, knowing that a good retailer will replace or refund defective pens. Choosing the "wrong" pen for me will of course still be my own fault... !

#57 TheDutchGuy

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:03

I'd speculate that a small brand like Leonardo orders its nibs in batches from companies like Bock, i.e. when Leonardo sets out to produce 1,000 pens, it orders 1,000 nibs (for a brand like Kaweco, the numbers are probably a lot higher). Various online sources indicate that Leonardo asks Bock to produce their nibs in a certain way, which may explain why they the EF and the F are so incredibly soft and bouncy. Batch production in relatively small numbers combined with special requests might lead to a higher frequency of defects.

Personally I have two pens and three nibs. The pens are magnificent in every aspect, in my opinion. Of the two F nibs, one is the best nib I've ever used in my life. The other F has a touch of baby's bottom that I need to correct. The third nib is the 1.5 stub. An OK nib, nothing wrong with it, but it did not strike me as being better than most other steel stubs.

#58 City74

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 10:33

I’m really trying to find a reason not to try one of these out

#59 A Smug Dill

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 10:52

I’m really trying to find a reason not to try one of these out


They're much larger than the Sailor Pro Gear Slim. ;)
As always:  1. Implicit in everything and every instance I write on FPN is the invitation for you to judge me as a peer in the community. I think it's only due respect to take each other's written word in online discussion seriously and apply critical judgment.  2. I do not presume to judge for you what is right, correct or valid. If I make a claim, or refute a statement in a thread, and link to references and other information in support, I beseech you to review and consider those, and judge for yourself. I may be wrong. My position or say-so carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and external parties can speak for themselves with what they have published.  3. I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable. If it is something you can test for yourself and see the results, I entreat you to do so.

#60 City74

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 11:01

They're much larger than the Sailor Pro Gear Slim. ;)


Ok? I wasn’t using it as a carry pen so size doesn’t matter





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