Cursive, Me, And An Mb 149 Ef

[Pointyscratchy]

Hi I feel very much an amateur reading all these very accomplished and well presented topics, so apologies in advance.

 

I bought the MB Meisterstuck 149 ef to improve my handwriting.I love the pen and it did improve my writing up to a point,It lays a lovely line and my closed up e's a and a's are a lot more legible because of it's clarity.The fat size fits my hands and suits me very well.I believe this to be the best writing instrument of all time.

 

My handwriting is horrid. Everytime someone posts a writing sample on here I am so full of admiration.I notice the really good writers like the broader nibs.I'm aware that a lot of people feel like I do about their own handwritings so that helps.And I think that owning and using the best writing instrument in the world helps too.

 

Cursive.Why is it so hard? I've been trying to crack it for over year and finally I think I've begun to make some limited progress. First of all you learn to write all the letters in one pen stroke, and here's the clever bit, because we write left to right on the page, that one stoke has to be some version of an anti clockwise circle or oval, and that then links sometimes by a ligature to the next letter.To practise you have to write multiple joined up u's, w's, a's and m's, and lots of circles.The idea is that you write in a flowing rhythm and don't need to think about every individual letter.If you write the same sentence over and again except faster and faster very few errors will creep In if you have this magic rhythm, and even at light speed it is still legible.

 

Some words are a joy and can be done in one single stroke - essays - effort- successful- .(I wonder what the longest one stroke word is?) Others are harder- minimum's a tough nut, I think he had a troubled childhood.

 

So I feel I have this rhythm now,(some words are better than others) and writing with my 149 is a real pleasure.I still have to work on a 52 degree slant, and I still haven't got all the heights right but I feel a lot better about my writing, can read my own notes, and feel a lot better about myself.I've always had this secret fear and I'm probably not alone in this either about "All the gear and no idea.". IE. a tendency like toad of toad hall to buy the biggest brashest motor car and without bothering to learn to drive don outlandish goggles and proceed to terrorise the surrounding neighbourhood with my wild driving.(I also have nearly every colour ink for instance and quite a few other pens)

 

So not perfect but trying and very much enjoying my pen, and if my handwriting can get better so can anyone's.

 

( just for clarity my writings not good enough to post on here, it's not in the good category, but it's acceptable.)

 

 

[Tom Kellie]

[zaddick]

I am guessing you are being a bit hard on yourself and critical of your writing. Many of us do the same. That said, this is not a handwriting competition, or even a handwriting forum, so get up the courage to post a few photos and be happy with your progress. You can look back years later and see the improvement. Most folks here want to support the use of pens for writing (gasp at the destruction of collector value) so you will have a receptive audience.

 

I do prefer broad nibs for my writing. The cushion of ink and the line variation (well in an MB B+ widths anyhow) makes my writing more pleasant, even if I am the only one reading it.

 

So be bold in 2019. You are among friends.

[meiers]

Yes!!!! You are!!!

[Tom Kellie]

I am guessing you are being a bit hard on yourself and critical of your writing. Many of us do the same. That said, this is not a handwriting competition, or even a handwriting forum, so get up the courage to post a few photos and be happy with your progress. You can look back years later and see the improvement. Most folks here want to support the use of pens for writing (gasp at the destruction of collector value) so you will have a receptive audience.

 

I do prefer broad nibs for my writing. The cushion of ink and the line variation (well in an MB B+ widths anyhow) makes my writing more pleasant, even if I am the only one reading it.

 

So be bold in 2019. You are among friends.

 

~ zaddick and Pointyscratchy:

 

So go broad in 2019. You are among friends...and fresh cookies are regularly served.

Tom K.

[zaddick]

I see you caught my double entendre in the last line Tom. 😉

[Tom Heath]

Simple practice, practice, practice

 

Most successful artist must practice 10,000 hours

 

Handwriting not quite so many...

 

Much to be said for all the You tube shorts on this subject.

 

Desire and Patience are good traits to exhibit.

 

Happy Writing TJ

[MyPenAndI]

This place has been cursed blessed with me because I wrote a note in cursive which I could not read. Sull is showing me why. It is slow, and painful. I am determined. I left my patience laying around somewhere, and now I cannot find it.

 

Small, slow steps. Patience. Pencil before pen. My handwriting is so bad that I don't feel as if I'm learning again. I feel as if I'm learning for the first time.

My teachers, friends and family used to sing the high praises of my cursive writing.

 

Sixty years ago. Darn!

[Zdenek]

.....

 

We write not only to attain some degree of perfection but also to train our brains.

Be relaxed and mindful, and the most important - slow down.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Zdenek

[Pointyscratchy]

Thanks for all the replies, and thanks Tom for the writing sample.I just googled most popular New Years resolutions and amongst the lose weight, join the gym lists, there were I admit no learn better cursive resolves.I think it has to be there though,if not in the top ten then maybe in the top fifty. Anecdotely I've heard too many other people express the same thought for it just to be me who feels this.

 

So this is what I think, and thanks to the mods by the way for not moving this yet because I'm about to make a relevant Montblanc point, but bear with me, I'm a bit long winded.Do they ever read this by the way?Do they pay us or send free pens for good suggestions?

 

In the UK we are going through something we call the collapse of the high street.In America I think you call it Malls closing.Anyway, like a lot of other things we are blaming the internet.Pen makers seem to be struggling too, if they are not going bust then their product range is shrinking and nib options are lessening.Then there are keyboards and print only forms.Things are changing and they are changing fast.

 

As a result I think it's not so much a resolve to improve handwriting that's the zeitgeist I'm trying to express as people wanting to rediscover it altogether.To do the this the best tool for the job is a fountain pen, and the best of these with eight off the shelf nib widths is surely Montblanc.That's the route I took.

 

My suggestion is that for a very limited effort and minimal market spend Montblanc could have a real winner on their hands if upon purchase of a Meisterstuck there was included a short-four page, six maybe? Leaflet that was titled Rediscover Your Handwriting.

 

A flowery introduction maybe, and some nice photographs; rediscovering your handwriting will be like falling in love with your first love all over again, here at the home of fine writing... etc,etc.A bit of stuff about keyboards and modern life.Then all that's needed is a simple model alphabet and a few tips about shapes, and top joiners and bottom joiners, and the excellent montblanc nib will take care of nearly everything else.You get the idea.

 

If Montblanc were to be obstinate over this they could take the view that the people who buy their pens already know how to write, and of course they do.But as I've said a lot of people are in the same position of wanting to rediscover the joy of using a fountain pen and I believe the already wonderful experience of buying and owning an MB fountain pen could be greatly enhanced by this.How much would it cost them? Pennies? And they could even go further a voucher code to a fuller online course perhaps?

 

Anyone else think this is a good idea?And if they do offer me a pen, assuming it's just the one, which one do you think I should pick?

Edited January 8, 2019 by Pointyscratchy

[Tom Kellie]

~ A new type of nib will be introduced by Montblanc about half a year later.

Called an “Expression Nib”, it has enhanced flexibility, in order to facilitate handwriting.

At that time, the joys of handwriting are likely to be emphasized by Montblanc marketing.

Not exclusively for the forthcoming “Expression Nib”, but across the line, handwritten communication is likely to be encouraged in 2019.

The thoughtful posts from Pointyscratchy are right on target.

Thank you!

Tom K.

[Pointyscratchy]

Thanks for the most recent reply Tom I should probably accept graceful defeat on this and I thank the mod’s for their patience and forbearance thus far when as pointed out this is not actually a handwriting forum.But in the manner of Columbo concluding a case there is just one last thing, a Montblanc type point I would like to make, but again I must ask you to bear with me because I am fairly long winded.

What I have in mind and something a little bit different for FPN as a convincer is a ‘thought experiment’.I don’t know if any of you are familiar with this or have taken part in one before. Einstein famously used them to deduce the general theory of relativity.If you want to go off and google that to check that I haven’t just made it up I’ll still be here when you get back.

He used trains and lifts(elevators).I intend using a man’s lifetime, and in imagination at least to take you through decades in just a few minutes.

This can be a fairly intense experience.If you have a partner in your household or another person it might be best to warn them that if you start laughing hysterically or sobbing inconsolably that you are taking part in a scientific thought experiment to do with pens and they are not to act surprised or to pull you out of the moment.By rights you should also have your eyes shut and possibly be listening to a favourite peice of music.

As a compromise I would suggest, if you do want to take part, that you try squinting at the screen because after all if you had them completely shut you wouldn’t be able to read this!

If said partner has any comment about the squinting then you are allowed to drink to tea or coffee while taking part in the experiment and now might be a good time to send them off to make you one.

Even though I am English I shall be using predominately American cultural references because it’s just easier, but it’s not about America, it’s about any country that you happen to come from, so feel free to insert your own norms.If you are now sitting comfortably and are quite ready then we’ll begin;

Imagine that you are young, if you are already young then good, you are still young.You are very good at sport and work with a great deal of dedication incredibly hard over many years.That good and that dedicated in fact that you become state champion.You get to nationals, and after that, it being an Olympic year you find yourself selected.Your parents are so proud, your coach is so proud.You are pictured in your tracksuit in your local paper.You are a hero.

At the opening ceremony in Mexico you wear your countries blazer and march around the stadium in front of a massive worldwide audience.

Then comes your event.You expect to do well but not win which is what you do.But there is a big shock waiting for you.Everything you thought you knew about your sport is overturned.The year is 1968, your sport is high jump, and Dick Fosbury wins the gold medal by jumping over there sticks backwards with the Fosbury Flop!

Backwards! It’s unheard of.Your straddle technique is outdated and you retire shortly afterwards.You get a job selling paper clips.You get married.You start coaching high jump and you are a pretty good coach.Ironically you have now become a Fosbury Flip expert.You have a couple children.Your marriage is a happy one.Your athletes do quite well.

Before you know it you are retiring and your paper clip boss takes you and you wife out for a surprise dinner.Your kids are there, married themselves now and some of your old athletes turn up, one of whom has become the state Senator.He brings with him the President who just happens to be in town on business.The President doesn’t stay long but you have a fifteen minute chat with him and he pretends to remember you from when you were a jumper but you are pretty sure he is just being polite and your Senator buddy briefed him to say that.At all events you have a nice night and your wife is in bits having enjoyed joshing with Ivanka.

It’s the next day and you are reflecting on all this when you suddenly remember that you were given something.Your paper clip boss had made a speech, well everyone seemed to have made a speech including yourself but you had had a lot to drink.You go find the thing you were given.It’s a box nicely wrapped.

You open the box.It’s a pen, a Meisterstuck 149 EF, possibly the finest writing instrument ever made and it has your name engraved on the side.Wow!

You are beyond excited and your wife who must have known all about this has some ink on hand for you, Montblanc Mystery Black.You make a bit of a mess filling it but it doesn’t matter.

“Well.”Says your wife.”Aren’t you going to at least write the President a thankyou note?”

And then your heart stops.Not since Fosbury made that astonishing backwards leap at the Mexico Olympics have you ever had such an arresting moment.Your handwriting is awful.You could jump and you could sell paper clips but you could never hand in a page of prose that didn’t look like it had had a spider crawl across it.

What to do, what to do, what to do.You have to write the President and your old friend and boss a thank you note, you remember them saying it at the time but not knowing they’d got you a pen were a bit unsure why.

Then an idea, or half memory and you’ll clutch at anything now.Wasn’t their a leaflet come brochure thing in that Montblanc pen box? You go look…Where is it?

Rediscover your handwriting. You open it and skip the intro.Letters can be divided into five basic shapes.Five?I thought there were twentysix letters in the alphabet? These shapes form groups of letters and you can write them in one stroke.Hang on, even you old Harry hapless hand can manage five shapes.

An hour late the notes are done and posted.The President rings you a few days later and makes a golf date.

That’s the end of the thought experiment .Thank-you for your participation.

And you still don’t think the writing brochure is not a good idea ?

[zaddick]

Yes, it is not a good idea. Save trees. You are an adult, print neatly or type the damn letter and sign it like a "normal" person.

 

PS - this is moot because the POTUS will not show up anywhere unless there is money involved, a photo op, or a chance to meet someone famous. The retired paper clip jumper does not qualify.

[Kalessin]

Thanks for all the replies, and thanks Tom for the writing sample.I just googled most popular New Years resolutions and amongst the lose weight, join the gym lists, there were I admit no learn better cursive resolves.I think it has to be there though,if not in the top ten then maybe in the top fifty. Anecdotely I've heard too many other people express the same thought for it just to be me who feels this.

 

So this is what I think, and thanks to the mods by the way for not moving this yet because I'm about to make a relevant Montblanc point, but bear with me, I'm a bit long winded.Do they ever read this by the way?Do they pay us or send free pens for good suggestions?

 

In the UK we are going through something we call the collapse of the high street.In America I think you call it Malls closing.Anyway, like a lot of other things we are blaming the internet.Pen makers seem to be struggling too, if they are not going bust then their product range is shrinking and nib options are lessening.Then there are keyboards and print only forms.Things are changing and they are changing fast.

 

As a result I think it's not so much a resolve to improve handwriting that's the zeitgeist I'm trying to express as people wanting to rediscover it altogether.To do the this the best tool for the job is a fountain pen, and the best of these with eight off the shelf nib widths is surely Montblanc.That's the route I took.

 

My suggestion is that for a very limited effort and minimal market spend Montblanc could have a real winner on their hands if upon purchase of a Meisterstuck there was included a short-four page, six maybe? Leaflet that was titled Rediscover Your Handwriting.

 

A flowery introduction maybe, and some nice photographs; rediscovering your handwriting will be like falling in love with your first love all over again, here at the home of fine writing... etc,etc.A bit of stuff about keyboards and modern life.Then all that's needed is a simple model alphabet and a few tips about shapes, and top joiners and bottom joiners, and the excellent montblanc nib will take care of nearly everything else.You get the idea.

 

If Montblanc were to be obstinate over this they could take the view that the people who buy their pens already know how to write, and of course they do.But as I've said a lot of people are in the same position of wanting to rediscover the joy of using a fountain pen and I believe the already wonderful experience of buying and owning an MB fountain pen could be greatly enhanced by this.How much would it cost them? Pennies? And they could even go further a voucher code to a fuller online course perhaps?

 

Anyone else think this is a good idea?And if they do offer me a pen, assuming it's just the one, which one do you think I should pick?

 

I'm the active moderator for the Montblanc forum. As I have a young son taking up nearly all my time at home, I don't post all the time. There are other moderators who respond to reported posts if I'm unavailable. We're not hugely strict on staying on-topic, and will first post in a thread if we feel it is wandering a bit far. If things keep going astray, we will close ("lock") the topic thread, or remove it if it's a real problem.

 

While Montblanc employees may read the FPN Montblanc forum, there is no official link between Montblanc and us. They don't give merchandise or anything to us for all the clever things we say about the brand, or for the excellent photographs, or anything else. I've been the moderator for the FPN MB forum for more than ten years, and they haven't offered me so much as a ballpoint refill. This is actually as I prefer it, because the MB forum should be strictly independent, rather than have even a whiff of being beholden to the company that makes the products we talk about.

 

The business of teaching (or re-teaching) handwriting is quite difficult. French school cursive is different from US-school cursive, and both are different from what is taught in German schools. A separate leaflet for each country's particular style of handwriting would be a big project! With the internet, it's possble to download free resources and buy instruction books and so on,

 

These days, most people view fountain pens as a hobby, if they even know what one is to begin with. Even though we're very excited about them on FPN, most people write with whatever ballpoint or rollerball is in reach, and regard fountain pens as fussy, leaky, and time-consuming. Basic handwriting instruction in the USA now mostly stops at printing, after which keyboard typing is the preferred skill.

 

I believe Montblanc realizes greater profit from handbags, perfume, jewelry, belts and watches, though the writing instruments still underlie the brand identity.

[Tom Kellie]

I believe Montblanc realizes greater profit from handbags, perfume, jewelry, belts and watches, though the writing instruments still underlie the brand identity.

 

~ Kalessin:

 

I fully concur with what you've expressed above.

Montblanc is a writing instrument manufacturer who branched out.

Tom K.

[RenM]

Yes, Montblanc successfully transitioned from a writing instrument company to a well-known and profitable luxury goods brand; this is quite an accomplishment! Those of us in the guitar playing community sadly witnessed Gibson try to make a similar transition, from a musical instrument manufacturer to a “lifestyle brand,” only to result in its recent bankruptcy and restructuring. This has been especially painful for jazz guitar players; Gibson is no longer making their iconic archtop jazz guitars like the L5CES and ES175. This would be akin to Montblanc ceasing production of the 149 and 146. Being a fan and collector of both Gibson and Montblanc, I only wish that the former had the great success of the latter.

[fpupulin]

 

Sorry for the poor phone pic...

[Tom Kellie]

~ fpupulin:

 

Thank you for posting the handwriting sample above.

It's especially useful to know the paper.

High quality writing paper enhances the writing experience with an Montblanc nib.

I also enjoy writing with Montblanc EF nibs.

Tom K.

[Pointyscratchy]

Fpupuliun- what a marvellous writing sample.I have read what it said, and I will read it again.I will also most probably copy it out- and copy it out again.I would love to be able to write like that!

 

I decided spencerian was probably a bit hard for me, so the alphabet I have been copying is a bit more angular.Your 'copy sheet' for want of a better term is as good as anything I have seen on the internet or in the two books I have bought.The other thing is that yours is a good balance of style and content.You haven't copied a passage of j Austen, or R L Stevenson, but instead have addressed the subject itself.Top marks.

 

Kalessin.

 

Thanks for posting and thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt and being lenient about staying on topic.

 

I actually feel a bit of a fool.I've been reading a few back posts and now realise that I'm not actually the first person in the world to suddenly after years of neglect get all gushy about handwriting.The stuff about free pens and MB wanting to give them to me was an attempt at humour.I do appreciate it could be perceived in a bad light.

 

As I felt I had been a bit stupid I was very glad to see the topic slide down.I thought perhaps if I posted again it possibly should be in the handwriting section, I can see that my ramble about discovering handwriting is not that interesting it it's a journey you have already taken, and seen others take, and perhaps been done better.`But......The but is that much is am interested in the `MB topics, and my own post a bit gauche, I do find some of the posts by collectors a bit dry.I like a human element, passion and curiosity and so on.I wonder about some of the posters{In a good way, meaning I am nosey, not in a critical way).

 

As regards the very interesting comments about Gibson guitars (This is what I mean; I found Rnem's comment was personal and insightful and therefore more interesting than stating what year a pen was made) and MB transitioning to a luxury brand, I read a quote about Harley Davison's "We don't sell motorbikes, we sell a dream." Ditto MB.

 

So anyway I've just logged back in and find I've been bumped back up and a Mod's had to post on me.That's a bit embarrassing.Before I made the decision to let this slide down I did have a post in mind about Einsteins letter.(the Szilard one).You'll recall that this may have been one of the most important letters in human history.It tipped Rosevelt off that Germany was working on Nuclear fission, and led to the Manhattan Project.But it turned out that not only was this not handwritten, but it went through several drafts, a stenographer, and was mostly dictated by Szilard and only signed by Einstein.Therefore it didn't do much to advance my argument, which was probably a very weak one to begin with.But just to apologise once again that free pens, long windedness (true but intended humorously), and over elaborate thought experiments, were intended as jokes.Although my desire to write better is real enough, if just badly expressed.

[jmnav]

Quite a few good comments here.

 

Just a note: the finer the nib's point, the more difficult for your writing to look "clean", specially on such a big pen a MB 149 is. You may try an M nib (or even a bold on a more nible pen.

Edited January 18, 2019 by jmnav