Sailor's Specialty Nibs Versus Western Writing

[A Smug Dill]

These sound a lot like fude nibs, which have decent examples available in some Chinese fountain pens and are very fun to write with if someone wants to pick one up for fun,

The Naginata Concord nib is essentially an inverted Fude de Mannen nib, with the point of the bird's beak being what one would write with (largely in monoline) most of the time. I really enjoy writing with mine, but what I don't enjoy using nearly as much is the boring, standard 1911 Large pen body in resin.

 

I have some basic Sailor pens with Fude de Mannen nibs (but not the Naginata Fude de Mannen), and of course the writing experience is not even remotely in the same league. Actually, I hate to say this, but I think the Fude nib on my Chinese-made el cheapo Hero 187 writes better than the Japanese-made Sailor Fude nibs.

Edited January 3, 2019 by A Smug Dill

[Mulrich]

I have a NMF and love it. My handwriting is somewhere between print and cursive and I think the NMF provides really neat natural line variation without any effort on my part.

[Mech-for-i]

Well, I write both Chinese and Cursive , and sometime Japanese too and I've found no trouble using either the full blown Chinese Fude, which is much more extreme than Japanese, the in between Chinese Calligraphy, or the Sailor N series whether its the normal N type or the cross point. As it is the devils in the detail, in how you hold, and write. Its not a brush so don't try to use it like one though some of the technique applies and its not a dip pen / flex nib either so don't try that too; pressing on them can actually ruin the alignment. The motto is how to control ( smoothly ) between up, down, cross, oblique stroke and how you rotate / align / angle the nib to the paper.

 

For those who have master the art of Chinese or Japanese brush calligraphy its a lot easier, for those who had only experience in cursive writing , it might require you to unlearn some habit and learn some new one

Edited January 8, 2019 by Mech-for-i

[A Smug Dill]

... the full blown Chinese Fude ( which is much more extreme than Japanese, ...

Could you elaborate on what you mean by that? Is that the angle of the bend, or the length of the part of tines south of the bend? Sailor makes different Fude de Mannen nibs with 40° and 55° bends. I haven't measured the angle of the bend on the Fude nib on my Hero 187, but it doesn't seem to me that it bends more 'extremely' than the Sailor nibs.

[Mech-for-i]

Well ... There is a multitude of Calligraphy nib from China , the least extreme of that is like the Moonman , the Hero is somewhat an in between sort of daily use type, and then there's the really made for Calligrapy type which had the tip almost pointing at the sky ( well not quite but close enough for the part since we really do not write with a zero angle ). These nib tend not to have a sharp turn but a curved bend also instead of Sailors sharp bend on theirs. Though on their 14K/21K Fude Sailor had a somewhat less sharp ( slightly curved ) and less extreme angled bending

[shawnee]

Oh, I'm sure that is the case – and thus I could not bring myself to spend money on a Naginata Togi MF nib, in all these years since they first came to my attention in 2013, and even recently when there was one of the older models on offer for a decent price from Pen Gallery in Malaysia. Minimum line width, as a measure of a nib's capability, is very important to me in any 'regular' fountain pen I intend to use for more than lettering section headings.

 

 

The H-MF nib on one of my Sailor koshu-inden pens does. The H-MF nib on the other one writes more like a European F nib.

 

 

I hope (but at the same time, dread) I'll find out, if and when I receive the Sailor kabazaiku pen I ordered from LCdC a week ago.

 

Since I take it we're talking about Sailor specialty nibs, and not just the Naginata Togi nibs to the exclusion of all else...

 

 

(Both of the Sailor pens I used there are just 1911 models by any other name.)

 

You could even write in cursive with the 'brush' side of the Naginata Concord nib, i.e. holding it in upside-down orientation, if you really wanted to.

 

 

Good lord, you have beautiful handwriting... ahem. sorry.

 

shawnee

[A Smug Dill]

you have beautiful handwriting...

Thank you very much! You so flatter me.

 

Over the past few three months or so I acquired my first few books on English calligraphy, and hopefully this year I'll actually practise writing properly if my hand will let me.

 

For writing Chinese hanzi (or Japanese kanji and, to an extent, kana), a nib that lays down a precise line and offers some kinaesthetic feedback is essential; and, for writing in a grid or on a ruled page, being able to 'draw' eight or preferably nine distinct parallel horizontal lines (and seven or eight parallel vertical lines) in the em-square is a minimum requirement. For that, Sailor H-F and even H-MF nibs are very good, whereas specialty nibs other than the Concord actually makes it harder to write on bog-standard 7mm-ruled notepaper.

[minddance]

if one does not know how to use these (Naginata) nibs, the variations won't show up (much) in the writing - be it Asian or English characters. It also does not automatically make Asian characters nicer. Don't fantasize too much.

[A Smug Dill]

It also does not automatically make Asian characters nicer.

Oh, I agree. If one doesn't know one's tools well, possess the skill to use them effectively, and/or have a good idea of what the desired outcome looks like in each aspect and nuance, then any apparently improvement in the outcome would be more blind luck and less of a forgone conclusion.

[shawnee]

I will be the first to acknowledge that I know bugger all about Naginata nibs, but I love watching you guys talk about them and then providing handwriting samples. So feel free to keep talking. It's inspirational for a novice like myself.

 

shawnee

[A Smug Dill]

I will be the first to acknowledge that I know bugger all about Naginata nibs,

Information on the old line-up: https://www.nibs.com/content/sailor-specialty-nibs

 

Sadly many of them are absent in the new line-up.

 

It's a shame I didn't acquire more of the Naginata specialty nibs (married to the most boring Sailor 1911L plain black lightweight resin bodies with gold trim ) back in 2013 and 2014, when the Australian dollar was strong and worth marginally more than the US dollar! Lost a few eBay auctions for those back then, when in hindsight (yeah, OK) I should have been more gung-ho.

 

Eh...

 

No, to be honest, I've barely used my Naginata Concord (NK) nib. I managed to get a Sailor 1911L in black with rhodium trim last year, fitted with a Naginata Concord Emperor (NKE) nib, for twice the amount I would need to pay (in real terms) if I'd bought one five years ago, yet it's been sitting in the factory-sealed plastic sleeve for months, because I'm too 'afraid' to use it now that it's nigh irreplaceable (as a new/NOS item, anyway). The NKE nib is missing from the revamped line-up, and even if it wasn't, it'd probably be price at something like ¥69,400 (US$627) new today. On the other hand, it's not doing any good just sitting in a plastic sleeve inside a box right now...

Edited February 13, 2019 by A Smug Dill