Acceptable Or Abuse Of History?

[northlodge]

I keep seeing pens for sale on ebay that are clearly not what they are being described as. This would be obvious to those with detailed knowledge, but are probably designed to mislead the casual pen buyer.

 

The worst UK culprit would seem to be a seller called Jaosis.

 

I have no idea who he actually is, but he clearly sees nothing wrong in swapping around nibs, clips, caps, and anything else that fits the pen at hand. I would have no real objection if this was made very clear, although would probably still stay well clear. As it is there is only a rather unclear rider " The close up pictures are an integral part of the pens description" as can be seen in this current listing:

 

VINTAGE-ONOTO-WORKING-ORDER-FOUNTAIN-PEN-14CT-NIB-SUPER - item number 273602093334.

 

What is wrong with it? who knows, but for starters here is the picture of the cap:

 

 

Spot the conveniently abused Conway Stewart clip riding upon an Onoto pen!!

 

So am I being excessively obsessive about the need for items to be historically accurate, and accurately described here?? Would the average pen collector forgive such frankenpen creations??

 

 

 

And if Joasis sees this then I would welcome his reasoning for why it is okay to mismatch so many items

[Mech-for-i]

well, neither, but if he choose not to give a honest, and full description then he's violating the eBay rule ; as his listing might mislead people to think such an item to be completely vintage and original ( restored or not ). Its always acceptable to hack, or to simply pirating parts to made an old pen work again .. That to me is just good DIY / hack / repair ... we cannot expect anyone and everyone to had stash of parts to fully restore any vintage pen to original condition. If it take placing a brand X nib onto a brand Y pen and a brand Z cap to made it complete and working. that's fine with me .. so long the seller state that in full on the listing

 

its about unprofessional, and possibly dishonest business practice here

Edited December 16, 2018 by Mech-for-i

[barriep]

Not at all acceptable as the seller describes the pen as “super”. I have put together bits to save a pen with broken parts but for my own use not to sell.

There were times when pen manufacturers themselves used bits and bobs from their stock, especially during wartime shortages. So coloured celluloid barrel with BCHR cap on a WWII Conway Stewart. But not someone else’s logo clip!

[Cob]

I couldn't find the original listing, but clearly that pen (a 6233 I imagine) is not "super" It's just a Frankenpen.

 

I like Frankenpens - I have quite a few - but would not dream of listing them as "super" unless I stated "super Frankenpen!"

 

Cob

[praxim]

It is true, without saying, that pictures are integral to the description. However, it seems to me incorrect (possibly legally so) to expect a buyer to spot a part from another pen, without helpful comment, especially when the sale is in a retail space like ebay. Even if it were being auctioned to specialists who might be presumed to spot it, the seller would lose credibility by not admitting up front something obvious to experts.

 

The only excuse would be that the seller is the first deceived, and will discover it only on it being pointed out to them. Is there a record of this behaviour? If so, go to ebay.

 

Nice 62xx, for the rest of it.

[CS388]

I also like frankenpens - and have and use a few of them regularly. But, yes this should be declared. My pens are for my personal use only, if I were to sell them, I would declare the facts and expect a lesser price for them, as a result.

 

I think the pen in question falls foul of our generosity because it looks as if the clip has been deliberately altered to hide the fact that it is from another manufacturer.

 

Of course, we should bear in mind that the seller may have received the pen like this and may be a victim themselves, rather than the guilty party.

 

It's a tangled web!

And thanks for pointing this out, I would have missed that one!

 

Enjoy.

[praxim]

I wonder whether the seller is on FPN at all?

 

I wrote to them two days ago kindly pointing out that the cap clip was not Onoto, so perhaps they should mention this.

 

Zero reply.

 

No change to the advertisement.

 

That represents a set of ethics which does not appeal to me in the slightest. Is there a mechanism to advise ebay that a seller is knowingly careless with the truth, of which they are not ignorant?

 

edit: restore words accidentally deleted

Edited December 19, 2018 by praxim

[peterg]

Jaosis some times sells complete pens but usually they are concoctions, mainly a replacement steel nib, clip etc. You have to know what you are looking at to know if it is right.

 

Having said that he is selling working pens to a different market than us and generally getting reasonable prices. (mostly contented customer).

[praxim]

Jaosis some times sells complete pens but usually they are concoctions, mainly a replacement steel nib, clip etc. You have to know what you are looking at to know if it is right.

 

Having said that he is selling working pens to a different market than us and generally getting reasonable prices. (mostly contented customer).

 

The point being that many buyers do not really know what they are looking at, and nothing is said.

 

"Look at the pictures" is in this case code for "see whether you can spot today's swifty". Those who can not, appear to be the market. Are prices reasonable when sold on that basis?

[Wardok]

I bought a converted Stephens from him a while ago and asked him how the conversion has been done with a view to reversing it His response was "the pen came to me as is in a bunch of other "upcycled" pens so I have no history on it" so it sounds as if he knows they are improved in some way but did not do it himself. He was very nice to deal with .

[peterg]

Jaosis some times sells complete pens but usually they are concoctions, mainly a replacement steel nib, clip etc. You have to know what you are looking at to know if it is right.

 

Having said that he is selling working pens to a different market than us and generally getting reasonable prices. (mostly contented customer).

Just bought a rather pleasant 'The Everhandy Pen' from him. It is a Langs 'button operated bulb pen' in brown marble. Interestingly the celluloid has a seam down each side.