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Who Invented The Cartridge Converter?


OCArt

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Who invented the cartridge converter and when?? It seems likely that it might be an outgrowth of the Parker aerometric filler but I don't know.

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Hi OC,

 

Great question... with multiple answers... :D

 

I'm pretty sure Waterman offered a pen that had a refillable glass cartridge in the '20s or '30s... but it would break and didn't prove too popular in the marketplace.

 

Then in 1960, Parker released the 45... which was named 45 after the Colt pistol's cartridge ammunition. These used disposable plastic cartridges and became a big hit with the public.

 

I think the Waterman version was just ahead of its time... like the Tucker... and the public wasn't ready for the format yet. That said, Parker's improvements to the format is probably what tipped the scales.

 

 

- Anthony

 

P.S.: Not exactly sure, but IIRC, there might have even been one before Waterman...

 

...let's see... :unsure:

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Just to follow-up...

 

I'm curious to read what others have to say because I'm hardly an expert on the subject.

 

But I think the Parker model took off because the time was right... after WWII, we had become a more disposable culture that favored convenience over practically... and pre-filled, no mess, disposable ink cartridges were perfect for the era.

 

- A.C.

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I have read that Platignum had invented the C/C: though I admit it could be just marketing fluff, as it was on Platignum's own website

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after WWII, we had become a more disposable culture that favored convenience over practically... and pre-filled, no mess, disposable ink cartridges were perfect for the era.

Thing is, cartriddges are practical.

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Thing is, cartriddges are practical.

Hi Astron,

 

Not really; only in the short-term.

 

In the long run, bottled ink is considerably cheaper to buy than cartridges and produces less landfill waste... furthermore, cartridges are limiting on color choices... so, in the long-term, bottled ink is much more practical.

 

Really, the only thing cartridges are good for is being able to "shift on the fly" when you're out and about... and for airline travel. IMHO.

 

 

- Anthony

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There may seem to be conflicting claims on this subject. As one who recently bought Aurora's re-issued version of the DuoCart, I have become aware that Aurora says the original DuoCart was the first cartridge fountain pen, manufactured in the middle 1950s. That is before Parker made the 45, which began as an Eversharp pen and was absorbed into the Parker lineup after Parker bought Eversharp.

 

The Waterman C/F, introduced in 1953 and manufactured successfully for many years afterward, may be considered the pen that made the plastic cartridge a success in the market and eventually, at least in the West, the dominant filling system. The C/F had a converter.

 

There is also the question of cartridge pens that do not take a converter. In our time there are a fair number of those, and in the historic past there were pens that took a cartridge before the converter became an ordinary idea. We think now of cartridge-or-converter (c/c) pens as something normal, or even predominant, but in the decades when fountain pens were undergoing a lot of invention of filling systems, going back as far as the nineteenth century, cartridge-only pens entered the market and later vanished.

 

Business history is not the easiest branch of human knowledge. Among other difficulties, we have the fact that businessmen in general have not been much minded to look at the past. The temptation to obfuscate the past even if one happens to know the facts is also a problem.

Edited by Jerome Tarshis
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"The Waterman CF, first introduced in 1954, was the first successful mass-market cartridge filling fountain pen. While there have been prior attempts at cartridge pens (most notably Eagle's turn of the century brass cartridges and Waterman's earlier glass cartridges) this was the first commercially successful attempt."

www.captainchang.com

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...While there have been prior attempts at cartridge pens (most notably Eagle's turn of the century brass cartridges...

Hi Carlos,

 

Thank you!! :thumbup:

 

That's the one I couldn't think of before... the Eagle pen.

 

 

- Anthony

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Pre...converter....1970/71 I bought a P-75. I knew how it worked, like a P-51, open and squeeze. I tossed the box, with out opening the bottom of it; not looking at paperwork..................so was surprised when I came back to fountain pens a decade ago to find out the P-75 also took cartridges. :yikes:

 

I hadn't liked cartridges in they were always too expensive...even today.

 

now converters too. :thumbup: So the P-75 is a triple option pen................besides being light for silver and having grand balance.

 

So converters snuck in after 1971.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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Really, the only thing cartridges are good for is being able to "shift on the fly" when you're out and about... and for airline travel. IMHO.

I'd call that practical. The cartridge adapts the pen for other necessities than a desk pen.

Also cartridges can be recycled.

I would be interesting to investigate what's more expensive or burdening the invorenment. An ink bottle or cartridges holding the same amount of ink. I can imagine the cartridges take more resources as the bottle takes more energy. But that's just a gut assumption.

 

What I know is that in systems of returnable bottles the PET bottle wins over the glas bottle. It's lighter. That reduces transport costs.

 

Therefore I think it is wrong to "demonize" cartridges. ;) Although many humans are "pigs" and a recycling system is doomed to fail.

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I'd call that practical. The cartridge adapts the pen for other necessities than a desk pen.

Also cartridges can be recycled.

I would be interesting to investigate what's more expensive or burdening the invorenment. An ink bottle or cartridges holding the same amount of ink. I can imagine the cartridges take more resources as the bottle takes more energy. But that's just a gut assumption.

 

What I know is that in systems of returnable bottles the PET bottle wins over the glas bottle. It's lighter. That reduces transport costs.

 

Therefore I think it is wrong to "demonize" cartridges. ;) Although many humans are "pigs" and a recycling system is doomed to fail.

 

Cartridges can not be recycled as yet. They will fall through the mesh used in many recycling plants that are used to remove small debris such as bottle caps, organic materials etc. The recycle plants in the PAC North where I live request that we not recycling lids smaller than 3 inches. Otherwise they will clog or jam the machinery.

 

The same argument you use is the same argument the plastics industry use for single use plastic bags. Yes you can recycle them but you still see plenty of this garbage by the roadside where people simply throw their bags out with other trash. Many times it ends up in the streams and oceans. That's why Washington State is preparing legislation to ban single use plastic bags.

 

I myself do use cartridges but not that much. Plus I reuse them until the engaging nipple is too worn out stay on safely. Since their is no really good way to recycle that cartridge then I have to simply throw it in the trash.

 

Trashed but very well used trash.

What Would The Flying Spaghetti Monster Do?

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I'd call that practical. The cartridge adapts the pen for other necessities than a desk pen.

Also cartridges can be recycled.

I would be interesting to investigate what's more expensive or burdening the invorenment. An ink bottle or cartridges holding the same amount of ink. I can imagine the cartridges take more resources as the bottle takes more energy. But that's just a gut assumption.

 

What I know is that in systems of returnable bottles the PET bottle wins over the glas bottle. It's lighter. That reduces transport costs.

 

Therefore I think it is wrong to "demonize" cartridges. ;) Although many humans are "pigs" and a recycling system is doomed to fail.

Hi Astron,

 

I think Rudy summed up the problem with recycling them well enough; so I'll leave it there.

 

I'll just add that I never really use cartridges because I think pens perform better being bottle filled... the feed is saturated... immediately... especially when you siphon in the ink... expel... and then siphon again... to get a full fill.

 

But,... to each his own... let's celebrate that... celebrate life... :) ...

 

https://youtu.be/V2yOhNoS9Hs

 

Be well. :)

 

 

- Anthony

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Cartridges were always very, very expensive and still are...they are what keeps a pen company afloat...in the main.

 

IMO the high cost of cartridges drove many worker from fountain pens to cheap ball points.....especially if one was in the military or Civil Service and got free black Skillcraft ball points.

 

Bic was well liked in one could shove it in the spiral of a notebook....and if you kept the cap, no one stole it.

 

I lucked out I think it was in 9th grade and got for a dime...10 BP refills (government surplus so were cheap.....civilian market was robbery just like the cartridges)....a whole years worth of ink, so I could afford a dime Coke, a big nickle snickers....a pack of baseball cards....and would still have a nickle left over from my 'allowance'.

If one had to buy cartridges....there went the allowance.

 

That was a long time ago....long before free ball points all over the place. After I got back to fountain pens a decade ago, I went through the house and found 200 ball points....190 of them free ones.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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The earliest cartridges I know of were the Eagle glass cartridge around the 1890's. Contrary to Waterman's claim they were a mass market product.

 

Don't know anything about cartridge converters.

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Cartridges can not be recycled as yet. They will fall through the mesh used in many recycling plants that are used to remove small debris such as bottle caps, organic materials etc. The recycle plants in the PAC North where I live request that we not recycling lids smaller than 3 inches. Otherwise they will clog or jam the machinery.

 

The same argument you use is the same argument the plastics industry use for single use plastic bags. Yes you can recycle them but you still see plenty of this garbage by the roadside where people simply throw their bags out with other trash. Many times it ends up in the streams and oceans. That's why Washington State is preparing legislation to ban single use plastic bags.

 

I myself do use cartridges but not that much. Plus I reuse them until the engaging nipple is too worn out stay on safely. Since their is no really good way to recycle that cartridge then I have to simply throw it in the trash.

 

Trashed but very well used trash.

Yeah, I see there are differences from country to country.

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A deposit charge per cartridge might lead to some recycling. It might also lead to a lot of cussing like it does every time I have to take bags of empties back to the grocery to be crushed and get the deposit back. To heck with Michigan and their bottle deposit law, I liked Florida, where I could just throw them away. I do not care for cartridges, so a deposit on each cartridge!

Edited by pajaro

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

 

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A deposit charge per cartridge might lead to some recycling. It might also lead to a lot of cussing like it does every time I have to take bags of empties back to the grocery to be crushed and get the deposit back. To heck with Michigan and their bottle deposit law, I liked Florida, where I could just throw them away. I do not care for cartridges, so a deposit on each cartridge!

 

So I guess MI is one of those states that still gives refunds for recycling?

 

I live in WA (like RudyR). Recyclers are big business, but they have extremely low margins that work only by processing large quantities very efficiently. That means a lot of stuff that you think out to be recyclable isn't. Cartridges are a good example. But aluminum foil, too, ends up in the landfill which is a huge waste given how energy-expensive it is to extract AL from ore. Also, there's an increasing push on the recycled material being clean. This is basically pushed by the Chinese government: US recyclers sell most of their stuff overseas, much to China, and China just recently enacted laws requiring the imported recycled materials to be much cleaner. End result is that local companies push yet more stuff into the landfill: them cleaning it destroys their profit margin, so it only works if I clean it before throwing it in the recycle bin. And to be clear, this is a very eco-minded state: people don't like that aluminum foil or dirty plastic goes into the landfill, but that's just the reality of thing.

 

Also, the recycler can't afford to dissemble things. My usual example is a Kuerig K-cup. It's recyclable plastic, glued to recyclable aluminum, and compostable coffee grinds. But you can't seriously expect that a recycler will separate the foil from the plastic and then rinse off the grounds. Instead it goes in the landfill regardless of how environmentally friendly you thought you were being. And as Rudy points out, even if YOU bothered to disassemble and clean the parts then they still will be too small for the machinery, and still go to the landfill.

 

I don't know how it works in other states. I guess somebody could easily enact laws requiring that the recyclers actually recycle more, but it probably costs a lot more when you're paying your trash bill, too.

 

Moral of the story: Things don't get recycled just because the material is recycled and you tossed it into the blue bin.

 

Sorry for the recycling rant. What I really came here to write though: The OP asked about CONVERTERS! And we're just talking about cartridges and recycling. :unsure: I'm interested in the history of the converter, too.

Edited by XYZZY
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A UK Duofold has a metal tube containing a sac with a metal U shaped bar to press and fill the sac with ink. Sometimes referred to as an Aerometric filler but I do not believe that it has the fine metal tube that is in the P51.

 

When I look at an early P45 type converter I see a metal tube with an opening in which is a metal bar and a sac. Press bar to fill the sac with ink.

 

Same elements, same process. Is it possible that the P45 converter is a modified removable UK Duofold filler?

 

A logical progression with the introduction of the cartridge.

 

 

 

Now in right place and context. Edited to repair both a senior moment and a fat finger mistake

Edited by vicpen123
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...I'm interested in the history of the converter, too.

A UK Duofold has a metal tube containing a sac with a metal U shaped bar to press and fill the sac with ink.

 

When I look at an early P45 type converter I see a metal tube with an opening in which is a metal bar and a sac. Press bar to fill the sac with ink. Sometimes referred to as an Aerometric filler but I do not believe that it has the fine metal tube that is in the P51.

 

Same elements, same process. Is it possible that the P45 converter is a modified removable UK Duofold filler?

 

A logical progression with the introduction of the cartridge.

 

Hi XYZ, et al,

 

The first pen with a converter was the P45 by default. They came with an aerometric type squeeze filler... but unlike the P51's system, which was not removable... the P45's WAS removable... (so the owner had the option of using a cartridge),... making IT the first dedicated converter that I'm aware of.

 

Now who came out with the first piston style converter like we typically use today... I couldn't say. :unsure:

 

 

- Anthony

 

 

EDITED to add Vic's quote.

Edited by ParkerDuofold
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