Doric Pen Burping

[KingRoach]

As mentioned by a few, an air leak is probably at the root of the problem. Tight fitting of parts at the front rbd seems likely. If the packing initcat rear of barrel were at fault the filling of the pen would be inefficient and irratic or no fill would happen. In addition to items mentioned above by Ron, A cracked nib at joint with nib feed collar can do this, A cracked nib-feed collar that holds the nib and feed can cause this.

 

 

Sorry I haven't reported in a while, just been busy and all. I hope everyone is having a good holiday.

 

If there was an air leak as such, I believe it would have dumped ink at a much higher rate. This is more like burping effect than a leak effect. I haven't tried the pen since my last comment so I cannot update any further for now.

 

A quick question for those who have vac filled dorics: do they burp in general? Or are they capable of countering burps in their normal state (i.e. when fully restored and have no faults)?

[Newton Pens]

A cracked part somewhere at the nib/feed/collar area can make it slowly burp, exactly like you mention, like Wahlnut and I both already mentioned.

Replacement nib units for these aren't that hard to find - I would try one - or send it to somebody to try one so you at least know for sure.

[KingRoach]

I've just run a quick search and couldn't find any parts. I also found that they are called Personal Points?

Where do you suggest I look for parts just in case I end up facing that direction? What keyword?

It will be a safer bet to disassemble the pen for inspection before going any further. This is something I have been trying hard not to do, as it's an important pen for me, and it had a warranty on the filling mechanism, but seeing that this someone in question turned out to be an utter (bleep), I see no point in keeping the pen untouched just because of that.

I'm still hoping to figure out this particular pen with minimal disassembly if possible.

[KingRoach]

Oh! My! Update!

I've just tried twisting the section a little and it unscrewed without resorting to heat. Don't ask me how.

 

The section pin, whatever that does, is broken and was found inside the barrel.

 

Now I need to take the feed/nib/shut-off out of the section without breaking anything. What is the best next step?

It's a Doric 2nd generation, senior size, No.9 adjustable nib with shut-off valve.

I'll try to get some photos going but maybe I'll use dropbox because this forum's confusing way of sharing images does not sit well with me having to use my phone to take photos. Too much workflow to share pictures here, I don't know how you guys do it.

[KingRoach]

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/48ufs1k7o34n8wn/AACsc-XPIGvdNLpcAeuu8t99a?dl=0

 

I can update photos to this folder so keep using the same link.

[KingRoach]

Nib and feed pulled out. Shut off valve still in. As you can figure out, the nib/feed unit (feels like it's made of ebonite?) is still inside the section. What is the safest way to unscrew that thing without breaking anything? And is it usually glued?

[Newton Pens]

never glued. tight fit made tighter with decades of ink stuck to it.

[Ron Z]

Ouch. The shutoff valve has a spring on it. If you pull the nib and feed, the spring, or the feed, or the collar can break. I'm betting that the spring is now missing.

 

The pen should function without the displacement rod, though I replace them with a piece of hard rubber. They push the head gasket to one side to prevent surface tension from blocking the flow if ink around the head gasket to the nib.

 

I think you're getting to the point where you need to let a pen mechanic look at it - before you do more damage.

[KingRoach]

The spring is still there, and so is the valve. Don't worry Ron, I ask like a newb but I'm pretty confident and careful when I get down to doing something, and I have lots of repairs under my belt, but I always ask modestly like a newb, respecting the experience of others, as well as the limits of my own. This is a pen that I've never had or touched before and I have to learn the tricks of its materials and constructions to keep it safe without turning it into a very dear learning piece. I don't lack skills, I lack tools. And money to buy tools. If it breaks in my hand, it would have broken in a pen mechanic's. So please allow that I would like to keep going with this repair with my own hands. The pen should mean a thing or two for me after all.

The nib unit is in the section, and my next step is to figure out how to screw it out. That said, on the barrel-side of the section, further from the shut off valve, something actually moves ever so slightly, and I don't know if it should. I'm waiting until the parts are disassembled to tell what it is. Is it a gasket? A cork? Is it broken piece of the ebonite nib unit?

What is a good suggestion to loosen up any dry ink holding the nib unit's threads from turning? Just a soak? Heat? WD-40? Burnt car oil?

[Ron Z]

Glad to hear its all there.

 

There is a rubber seal inside the section that the valve presses against when the cap is screwed on. This is invariably hardened these days, and usually doesn't work. I replace these using EPDM rubber.

 

The best thing to do is to run the section through an ultrasonic. Soaking might work, but it might also discolor the rubber. Gentle heat can work too.

[KingRoach]

Cheers, Ron! I thought it should be a rubber seal, that made sense, but it might have hardened. Might that be one possible cause for the leak/burp phenomenon I was having? That will have to wait until that thing is out for a full inspection. Cheers for naming the required replacement material straight away!

[Ron Z]

Not likely to have caused your leaking problem. Some of the older repair guys just removed the seal rather than replace it.

 

I'd still put my money on the seal at the back end of the pen.

 

Try taking the blind cap off of the piston, fit a desoldering bulb or other bulb over the back end of the pen, barrel and all, immerse the entire pen in a bucket of water and squeeze the bulb. Squeeze hard. If you get ANY air out of the pen, you have a leak at the packing unit.

 

Then turn the pen around and slip the bulb over the end of the section. Squeeze with the pen immersed in the bucket. Again, if you get bubbles anywhere except around the bulb, you have a leak, and you'll see right where it is. Only if you don't get bubbles anywhere would I say that the problem is round the nib and feed.

[KingRoach]

I'll give something like that a try, even though we are all leaning towards a section/nib/feed problem as the filling mechanism has been serviced by Eric Wilson (who refuses to look at it again while it's still under warranty by him, because he's checked it twice with the previous owner and for that reason decided decided to block ME so I can't get in touch with him. I don't know how one is supposed to discuss a pen that is under warranty when one is blocked. I find the attitude appalling) and it would (bleep) him off greatly if the packing unit turns out to have a sealing problem.

I'll give it a shot but I do believe the filling mechanism is good.

[Ron Z]

Who knows. You might find a crack in the barrel when you do. I've had Dorics develop cracks so find that you could not see them under bright light with the naked eye. The pen didn't fill right or flooded and I couldn't find the cause until I did the bulb thing with the bulb over the section. I couldn't see the crack until I looked closely with a loupe, but I sure could see the bubbles forming.

[KingRoach]

I tried by blowing air into either side with my mouth as hard as I could. No bubbles.

[KingRoach]

Update. I may have pinned down the problem (consistent with your feedback, awesome people), and also consistent with me blaming it on the arrogant well-known repairs person who serviced the filling mechanism and had a warranty on it that he did not want to communicate with the new owner about by blocking him (me).

 

The good news is that nothing inside the section seems broken except the pin in the end. I found it in two pices, one of them well inside the barrel, but the broken parts had no effect. The filling mechanism and the unit in the back have been good and had a good seal.

 

The leak was, I believe, has been in the threads between the section and the barrel. There are no cracks whatsoever so I'm at least happy the pens's integrity has not been compromised, but it seems like the threads weren't sealed well.

 

I've put some silicone grease and threaded it in without any sealant just to troubleshoot, and have so far been able to go through a whole filling with only one burp towards the end of it. About the first 75% of the fill was used "perfectly" and then I only had one burp.

 

Ink used so far has been Cross Blue.

Next ink will likely be Parker Quink Solv-X unless one of you guys will tell me not to use that particular ink in this particular pen.

 

If all goes well, I will put it all back together properly (right now the cap seal lever is without a spring and isn't moving.) I need to pull the feed out again and sort it out). I just might keep the section threads sealed with silicone grease only in anticipation of future problem and no further adhesive since the threads are fine and the pen is mine so not passing it to anyone else.


Anything I missed? Are there any care notes or things to avoid doing or using that are specific to this pen? I'm treating it better than my girlfriend so being very delicate with everything I do, but it's a pen so it's going to be writing.

[sidthecat]

This is suspenseful stuff...like stalking one’s mistress, suspecting betrayal.

[KingRoach]

This is suspenseful stuff...like stalking one’s mistress, suspecting betrayal.

mwa ha ha ha ha!

[Lin_empire]

Wow, I also want a secon generation doric with #9 adjustable nib.

Now i only have 4 dorics with #7 adjustable. If you want to sell your doric, contact me any way

[KingRoach]

Wow, I also want a secon generation doric with #9 adjustable nib.

Now i only have 4 dorics with #7 adjustable. If you want to sell your doric, contact me any way

 

Cheers, it's a sentimental pen.