Removing Mold From Twsbi

[Inksomnia]

I have moldy Twsbi Vac 700R... I usually deal with mold by cleaning with alcohol, but Twsbi package warns to not use alcohol with their pens. Is there any other sure way to kill mold? I contacted twsbi and they recomended warm water and dishsoap, which I don't think is enough to kill mold. I was thinking hydrogenperoxide 3%, I use it with orchids to kill organic stuff. But I have no idea how twsbi material would react to it? I don't want it contaminate my whole collection or inks, so I need something that surely kills mold, not just removing what is visible.

 

 

I was frist thinking to post in twsbi section, but I think this repair section may have more info about removing mold, since it is more common in vintage pens than modern ones.

[siamackz]

I have soaked vintage celluloid sections and feeds in a mixture of white vinegar and hydrogen per and water. It usually does the trick.

[Honeybadgers]

I'd ask TWSBI exactly what the plasic in the section is and google what a safe disinfectant for that material is.

 

Worst case you could just start gentle with soap and water and see how she goes. Mold right there is an odd duck indeed - dry it thoroughly after washing and I suspect you'll probably be worry free - but use it with ink decanted from a bottle just in case and watch the sample vial you decant it into for a few weeks.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Honeybadgers

[Silent Speaker]

A bit late, but maybe someone else in the future can glean something useful from my experience, or not, as is usually the case:

Living in humid, mold-prone South-East Asia, there’s a lot to worry about when it comes to this (bleep), and other unpleasant things.

I had an unfortunate experience where my Pilot Custom 823 developed a certain odd smell, that would just not go away. Was it mildew? I still don’t know what it was.

Hard to describe, but I suppose the closest would be that "wet clothes" smell you get when sweat drenched clothes are not dried properly and then worn around. It's most unpleasant. We’ve just always called it in my house the "backpacker" smell (or “rickshaw driver smell”; choose your toxin: xenophobia or classism!!!), because, at least in the past, the ragged and unwashed young (and not so young) foreign backpacker tourists universally smelled like this (motorised rickshaw drivers still do I’m afraid, but I don’t travel via death-cart anymore so not a problem), as if they had rinsed their clothes in the hostel sink or using a drainpipe or something to save pennies and then just wore them out again once they’d been rung dry a little. Less of these types around these days, though perhaps it's just the amenities in the the sorts of lodgings they stay at that have become better (or there’s a generational shift in hygiene matters when on holiday or something). Whatever. It’s not a nice smell. Not one you want wafting in your face every time you uncap to write something.

 

Anyway, THAT damnable smell! No visible mold, none that I was ever able to see like OP's full bloom fluff. Flushed the pen, dish soap with a toothbrush-on-feed scrub. The works. Nothing would budge it. Tried some generic “pen flush” I had to order from a US based vendor (because nothing of any real use is sold in this country; household ammonia? Nope. Distilled water? “Why would you want battery water”? hurr It’s either face melting chems probably illegal elsewhere available right off the shelf, or nothing at all).

 

At first I thought these washes and scrubbing worked but then after a day or so the smell manifested itself upon uncapping soon enough. Had to isolate that ink bottle I used to fill because I was never sure if I had actually contaminated it with whatever it was.

Maybe 3 years (or more, I forget) go by and I finally decide I actually want to use that pen again after noticing it rolling around forlornly in a drawer (wonderful balance in my hand that pen) and found a youtube tute describing a full disassembly someone had compiled in the intervening years I had forgotten about it.

 

Followed it.

 

Found some white vinegar in a kitchen cupboard nobody ever remembers buying (magically appearing vinegar). Dumped the pen parts in a glass and flooded that lot with the soury water because to hell with it all.

 

Fed up, so I just left the thing flooded for almost two weeks “just to make sure”. I might have replaced vinegar with fresh stuff halfway through.

Scrubbed feed fins.

 

Chucked the parts into an ultra sonic cleaner, dishsoapy water filled.

Rinse.

 

Might have repeated the last two steps again just to get rid of the vinegar smell.

Dried.

 

Re-assembled (be damned careful with this model!)

Waited.

 

No smell after being assembled and empty after a fortnight.

Filled.

 

Only casualty, besides the damned smell (!!!), was that the filled in black lettering on the capband (“CUSTOM 823 *** pilot made in japan ***) is mostly eaten away, leaving a clean gold, unfilled engraving and a nib smelling like vinegar, that’s slowly itself fading. That’s a scent I can live with compared to that other one.

 

I don’t remember diluting the vinegar. Perhaps I did?

 

I don’t know the origin of this “wet clothes” smell. Was it some kind of mold? I’m just lucky it happened to a pen that I was able to completely pull apart, like OP’s TWSBI.

 

Had the same thing happen to two Aurora’s (modern) 88’s after filling from some aurora ink no less.
Repeated the vinegar method (for 3 days soak only, and without grand disassembly, just the nib units out and loose and of course no ultrasonic on the piston housing) and they’ve both been fine since.

 

Maybe this’ll help someone, somewhere, where the handy dandy chems and daily amenities you read about all the time on this American Internet (like “household ammonia!! make your own penflush!!”, “Simple green!!” "dawn dishwashing detergent!!!", or the worst of it all, “just go out and buy a gallon of distilled water from the supermarket to clean your precious vintage pens!!!!!! It’s cheap and easy!!!!!!!!1” ) may be lacking or just annoyingly hard to come by. If a place cooks food, it’ll have white vinegar and presumably dish soap (though there's a disconcertingly large number or kitchens in the vicinity that don't appear to know of the existence of the latter, or at least of its application).

 

I mean, I tried looking and found some “not-household ammonia” once (only stuff available that was ammonia and naught else) when I resolved to make my own damned flush. Apparently I would’ve needed a degree in chemistry and some lab equipment to dilute it to make the corroded hands/eyes/lungs warning on the label less of threat. I am not a smart man.

 

Hydrogenperoxide 3%? Ha. I’m sure 100% (if even possible) is in easy reach within walking distance of my house, but a daily manageable dose? Nah. Leave that for the smelly backpackers to bring in and sell to fund their trip home, or for their hospital fees after they inevitably get involved in motorised rickshaw accident with no travel insurance to speak of. They could shout the death-cart driver a freshly cleaned and dried t-shirt while they’re at it.

 

 

 

[bass1193]

xenophobia

This is the word that stuck with me after reading the rant quoted. Wow.

Edited December 14, 2018 by bass1193

[bass1193]

xenophobia or classism

I should have said that this is the phrase that stuck with me most after reading the rant quoted. Remind me to never visit southeast Asia. Ugh.

[Brianm_14]

TWSBI certainly should be able to tell you either the exact plastics used (so you can determine which chemicals can be safely used) or suggest a safe approach to getting rid of the fungus.

 

If you sre comfortable using a pen flush (commercial or homemade) with diluted household ammonia, use it first. Ammonia will kill some fungi, especially spores. In a bathroom affect by mold, a trick is to clean with a bleach-based cleaner, then rinse carefully; finally, a careful washing is done with household ammonia to kill the spores still untouched by the bleach. I've even followed that up with another rinse and a straight vingear wash. If you have ever dealt with a mold problem in a bathroom, one that keeps coming back, you'll understand my desperation. After all that, only re-painting and re-sealing the grout/caulk will work. How can we apply that determination to an infected pen?

 

Alcohol is not particularly effective against most fungi. If it kills the vegetative cells, it will likely leave the spores untouched. Hydrogen peroxide (which is available in 3% dilution for medical uses, in 6% dilution for cosmetic -bleaching- use, and is found at full strength at only 28% aqueous dilution) is likewise not an agent of choice as a fungicide except at the quite dangerous fully concentrated 28%.

 

The first thing to do is really clean the affected parts of the pen using a mild detergent such as used to handwash dishes. Where available, Dawn has become a favorite. A soft brush can help, and scrubbing (once suds have been worked up, and allowed to penetrate) should be done under a full, strong, stream of running cool tap water. A strong flow of water has been shown to help carry away bacteria and other organisms from the hands during washing, and should help here repeat several times,mcleaning the brush and your hands in-between. Keep up the friction with the brush, cloth, or your hands as you rinse under the water.

 

An ultrasonic cleaner and detergent can usefully augment but not replace this scrubbing step.

 

After this thorough cleaning, you need to expose the pen parts to an efffective fungicide. There are several possibilities. About one-half teaspoon of ordinary laundry bleach, diluted in 16 to 20 ounces cool tap water is a fine choice, if it will not harm the pen. It might attack some metals or rubber parts. Plastics should be okay at this dilution for the times needed for disinfection.

 

While a 20-minute soak should kill all fungus, 30-minutes or longer is better. You could use the same amount of bleach in a quart/liter of cool tap water and allow a 45-minute to one-hour soaking period. Rinse, rinse, rinse in running cool, tap water afterwards and make sure to dispose of all infected paper towels and to clean the sink and your hands while the pen is disinfecting.

 

If the plastic can handle the bleach solution, but the metal can't, the metal parts can always be disinfected separately in water heated to at least 185 degrees F and held at that tempersture for 10 or more minutes. Let it cool to room temperature, if possible, on it's own. Again, TWSBI should be able to okay this -or not. Make sure the metal is completely clean and grease-free first.

 

Vinegar can be hit or miss. Lactic acid, similar to vinegar (acetic acid) is used in an antibacterial hand dishwashing detergent marketed in at least the USA by Palmolive. The instructions state to use it in a dilution of 1 part detergent to 19 or 20 parts waters (cool water is fine) and to allow a 30-second contact time to kill the listed pathogens. For fungi, I'd use this as my cleaning agent. For a soak, a slightly stronger dilution (maybe one part detergent to 15 parts cool water) and a 15 to 20 minute contact time would be adequate. Again, rinse, rinse, rinse. The question of safety would be similar to that for vinegar, but I suspect lactic acid is more effective especially in a detergent, "wetting agent" package.

 

After all of this, either bleach (preferred), or bleach/hot water (preferred) or lactic acid soak, if you wanted to soak for a few minutes in undiluted medicinal 3% hydrogen peroxide, Lord know's it would do no harm.

 

Then dry. Allowing to air dry is a help here; even some fungi are destroyed by dessication, but not as many as in the case of viruses or bacteria. Mold persists in places like bathrooms because of the constant humidity, warm, and relative lack of light. Your pen doesn't have to be a favorable mold environment. If the pen can take it, exposure of pen parts to 15-minutes of bright, mid-day sunlight can kill many types of microorganisms in short order due to UV in sunlight. I'd surely use it!

 

Lastly, you must ask, where did the mold come from? An ink? Dump the ink! Examine other pens, and it might be a good time to flush pens (use ammonia properly diluted as it can kill mold) and let them air dry. Clean and disinfect areas where you store or rest pens, such as cups or even desk tops.

 

My recommendations are based on life-long experience in microbiology and medical microbiology, in roles as diverse as a university professor instructing nursing and allied health students, to being responsible for the sterility of products in a pharmaceutical plant.

 

Ultimately, check with TWSBI, and use agents and dilutions of chemicals they perhaps suggest. If you need to reduce concentrations of disinfectants, within reason you can make up for this by extending your contact times. But physical cleaning is always the first step. It will remove the great majority of the contamination.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Brianm_14

[Inksomnia]

Thanks Brianm_14! I haven't yet got hold of ammonia, it is bit restricted here. But bleach I can easily get. Pen has been cleaned with water,brush and ultrasonic, and sit on table since I started this topic. Nothing new has grown.

 

I have been trying to figure out source. I don't think it is the ink. Ink was Montblanc oyster gray, and it has also been my other pen as well, without the mold. I also live in dry climate. I have one suspect! This pen had short time vintage nib on it, that may have contaminated the pen.

 

Vac has metal ring on section, that isn't removable, it complicates things a bit. But I hope with your really detailled instruction I can get this pen mold free and back to use.

[sansenri]

Thank you for all the useful information.

One of my Ranga ebonite pens has developed a distinct moldy odour inside the cap, the barrel, the section and even the nib, possibly very slightly also the converter.

I know I did not let it dry well before putting it away, as when I opened it the nib was almost wet with mist.

The pen parts have no metal but I also assume a bath in vinegar should not harm the nib or converter (and in any case they are the most easily replaceable parts).

I'm slightly more concerned of effect on ebonite, since the pen is a premium ebonite pen with a very nice polished finish.

I will probably first try to just fill the inside of the cap, and barrel, with slightly diluted vinegar, seal them in some way and let the vinegar act for a short while, wash, let dry and repeat of necessary.

I know bleach would be best but I'm not sure of effects on ebonite.

I own several other Rangas but this issue has never occurred before. By checking carefully it would seem this pen does not have the typical small breather hole in the cap...

The only advantage is, when filled with ink it just never dries out...

[Addertooth]

I used to work in a physics lab which had a variety of inks for their chart recorders. Some were even cyanide based inks. We discovered that even the cyanide based inks were not totally resistant to some strains of mold. The mold would clog the pens which wrote to the chart paper. We learned that a few drops of the anti-fungal products which could be purchased from "home wine and beer shops" added to the inks would kill the mold, and prevent their formation. Most importantly, those antifungals were for use IN beer and wine (meaning: safe to be consumed without peril). Those same chemicals would kill Black Mold which grew on steamy bathroom walls... permanently.

If your nation allows you to order and have shipped products from brewing supply stores, you might consider them.

 

My environment is a now high altitude desert, so such issues will never happen here. I have to worry about rapid ink dry-out in the nib here.

[sansenri]

interesting, any clue to what the anti-fungal product was?

[Addertooth]

I will have to research it, I no longer do competetive brewing competitions.... I want to think it was Potassium meta-bisulfate... but not sure.

[Ashram]

I was taught by a professional repair person to use Shaklee Basic-G mixed in a 1:128 ratio with water to remove mold from pens. All pieces of mold need to be physically removed then all parts of the pen that come in contact with ink should be treated with this solution.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Ashram

[FredRydr]

FYI:

 

 

[katerchen]

It's tangential, and probably my paranoia talking but I'd be afraid to use alcohol on any pen, in fear that it'll dull the surface.

 

-k

[Addertooth]

More importantly, Alcohol has been known to make some types of plastic craze.... so I don't let alcohol touch the body of pens with unknown plastics.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Addertooth

[Brianm_14]

Any “quat” (quaternary ammonium compound) such as the Shaklee product will be of limited effectiveness against some fungi. I have long suspected, the greatest merit in the quats lies in the combination of detergency and some gemicidal power, with a strong nod to the former; they have decades of appearing more effective than they really are in practice. Plus, that are incompatible with soap-based clears or their residues, a pain because quat are difficult to rinse free of surfaces. Many breweries ban their use as a consequence.

 

Physical scrubbing or ultrasonic cleaning. with a proven cleaner, thorough rinsing, and treatment with an effective fungicide in adequate concentration for long enough time is required.

[awa54]

I will have to research it, I no longer do competetive brewing competitions.... I want to think it was Potassium meta-bisulfate... but not sure.

 

 

Campden tablets (Sodium or Potassium metabisulphate) are used to kill or retard growth of wild yeasts and acetobacter in an active ferment, the tablets act by creating sulphur dioxide when added to must or wort. Stronger solutions can be used as a sterilant, but IIRC there's a significant ammount of sulphuric acid created and I'd be hesitant to put any metals that aren't 316/304 stainless or titanium in that.