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De Atramentis Document Inks Revisited - The 2018 Collection

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#1 Morbus Curiositas

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 19:09

Hello again De Atramentis Document Ink - The new colours

 

EMKQCzR.jpg

 

Back in 2014 I reviewed the first De Atramentis Document inks. Back then they were the first Non Iron Gall Document inks on the Market. I used them for my work and extensively tested them back then

 

cB6oBc7.jpg

 

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/266158-de-atramentis-document-ink-dark-blue/

 

Since then more Manufacturers produced ink this way (Maybe  with the exception of Diamine who already, just like D-A had an Registrars Ink in their assortment)

De Atramentis quickly  widened their range of Document inks with Brown Green and more importantly Cyan Magenta Yellow black

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/275148-de-atramentis-document-cmyk-inks-mixing-experiment/

 

 

 

With the CMYK collection all colours can be mixed, which makes them popular among Painters like Liz Steel

https://www.lizsteel.com/de-atramentis-document-inks/

 

1st3Iuu.jpg

 

But   I will come back to that later.

For lazy people like me, or clumsy people like me fortunately the range of ready mixed inks has been extended now to a total number of 17 inks.

 

Bombproof!

 

 

To be qualified as a document ink the ink must meet certain standards. The standard in Europe is ISO 12757-2. This means that the ink must be lightfast and may not be influenced by any outer influences. This way the ink written text cannot be deleted/altered without leaving traces

This makes the ink suitable to be use din the registry and legal documents

 Please see the tests below to get an impression of the resilience of these Document ink

The ink is extremely lightfast. This is tested and certified with the Woll-Skala, wool scale in English.

This may sound peculiar but it isn’t that strange on second glance. In history quite often, the same pigments used for Dyeing wool where used for inks as well.

The Woll-Skala reaches from 1 not lightfast over 5 extremely lightfast to 8 extremely lightfast. The ink “of course” is WS 8. 

There are other resilient inks like inks based on iron gall or soot. The problem is that iron gall inks are very aggressive to both paper and nib. (the paper of old Dutch documents from the golden age are often eaten away partially by the ink) Both iron gall and soot inks may also clog the feed of your fountain pen.

The De Atramentis inks are, made with nano-particles pigments which, in contrary to (some) Iron Gal are safe for use in fountain pens, a thing which is also confirmed by legendary fountain pen expert Richard binder

 

I again have tested the “indestructibility” of this ink here again. Inks that meet the standards for document standards (for i.e. the Registry) must be light fast waterproof resistant against acid and other chemicals. Als it is important that written text cannot be corrected/removed without leaving visible traces.

NIs4OxL.jpg

 

Take De Atramentis for a dive

 

qCAZrFR.jpg

 

Bad Breath test. What Vampires are allergic to, De Atramentis masters wiht grace ( I thought about testing it with methane gas, but I thought may be I should spare you the proces it is not a pretty view ;) )

 

OGs6PDN.jpg

 

Drown me in CHLORINE I will be Fine

 

caurds1.jpg

 

Don´t try this at home kids (at least not when mummie is looking ) :lticaptd:

 

XSyMJq2.jpg

 

It even doesn´t give a sh.t about acid :thumbup:  

 

 

The 2018 De Atramentis Document Ink collection

 

Well that was a lengthy introduction let´s see the inks now. 

I have made both photos and scans of the ink tests. Photos were made outside in non direct light White Balance was determined by using a grey card (Lightroom correction were solely made in enhancing lighting)

Photos are on the left side, scans on the right side of the picture

 

(I found it pretty hard to process the photos in Lightroom because of the high contrasts between  Black and White and Ink colours maybe TAS can help me here?

 

Written samples using a medium nib fountain pen

 

cdZaRoP.jpg

 

 

Q-Tipp samples

 

 

8ksEcIX.jpg

 

 

Q0hVkNZ.jpg

 

 

rC9V40j.jpg

 

 

mtpata2.jpg

 

 

Ink Vomitus Samples

 

PkjuzZn.jpg

 

 

uyUxgr4.jpg

 

 

BBZzQoi.jpg

 

G45JBIc.jpg

 

Written samples using an italic 1.9 nib

 

GNQA3rM.jpg

 

 

De Atramentis Document Ink White

 

 

Z2MZTwv.jpg

 

 

Colour Mixing and CMYK Mixing

I already mentioned that the De Atramentis Document inks are popular among artists who use them for painting and sketching.

In contrary to Monitors that emit light in a Mixture of Red Yellow and Blue (RGB)

Ink on paper reflect the incoming light in different colours. The Colours used here Cyan, Magenta Yellow and Black (Key). That means that all colour are basically a mixture of Cyan, Magenta and Yellow using Black to darkening or deepening the colours

 

tRyp3a7.jpg

 

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/272906-de-atramentis-thinning-agent-for-document-inks/

 

 

De Atramentis document thinning agent vs De Atramentis document ink white

 

I experimented with both the with ink and the thinning agent. For me it was hard to do effective testing though to differentiate the two, so maybe I should ask Jane Blundell to do a better Job

 

4dN39Cs.jpg

 

The left sheet is the one I used in my recent tests the right of earlier tests in 2014

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/272906-de-atramentis-thinning-agent-for-document-inks/

 

http://www.fountainp...ment-ink-white/

 

 

Jane Blundell´s mixes of De Atramentis document inks

 

Back in 2014 Australian watercolour artist Jane Blundell already experimented with mixing De Atramentis Document inks on her Blog using the CMYK inks and the other De Atramentis document inks then available

https://janeblundellart.blogspot.com/2014/11/mixing-document-inks.html

 

bPUH5Qv.jpg

 

2014 Jane Blundell Mixes

 

She updated these tests most regularly the latest I discovered can be found here

https://janeblundellart.blogspot.com/

 

 

0ZbZv9M.jpg

 

Jane Blundell's 2018 Mixes

 

 

So maybe check her website to enjoy some beautiful works of art and to be inspired by her colour mixes :happyberet:  :thumbup:

 

 

Availability

 

La Couronne Du Comte I guess  Dennis and Rik would even travel to the moon to get it for you (just pay them a million or 2  )  Well it is safe to say that they do almost everything to satisfy their customers http://www.lacouronneducomte

 

Bankers have Rothshield Ink lovers have the Goulet Pen Company. Rachel and Brian carry the ALMOST largest assortment of ink on earth an it's near surroundings    http://www.gouletpens.com

 

(almost Dear Amberlea Davis carries the largest assoritment in the universe but is not a seller 

 

Larry Post of Australia is a Great Supplier of Stationary and Artist Equipments. They carry a lot of De Atramentis Inks http://www.larrypost.com.au/

 

The same applies to Singapore based Arters of the utterly friendly Yitpeng and Weetek Ong http://arters.com.sg

 

 

 

Well folks hope you enjoy 

 

Regards

 

Peter  :)


Das leben ist wie ein Perpetuum Mobile mit ein Mangel..... Immer im Bewegung jedoch nicht unendlich. (life is like a troubled Perpetuum Mobile ever moving but not for ever)

Tricked throughout the centuries...

For centuries people had been tricked by kings & "religion-alism"

In the 20th century people got tricked by communism

Today people get tricked by (neo)capitalism  :) 


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#2 Lgsoltek

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 09:21

:notworthy1:  :notworthy1:  :notworthy1:

Thank you for this major comparison!!! Bad breath test LOL!

 

I have only tried two of the Document inks. The Red is too undersaturated for my liking. The Fog Grey (is it called "Blue Grey" here?) feathers and bleeds like crazy...



#3 Morbus Curiositas

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 11:02

must test that Blue/Fog grey more extensively.... I will report Dr J. about it.

Btw Dr J as far as I under stood Dr J sent your prize out last week Did you receive it?

On the red Docu imk...
I remember that I disliked the colour in 2014 No Saturation funny colour not my taste.

judging the new one I believe that looks better.

I will compare the old and the new bottle amd post a pic here

The Dark red is nice...

But I was about to send you a letter..So I will send you the Original

Any other D-A colour you like to see?
Akkerman Lievens Kardinaal paars is Stunning too as is Bekakt Haags

Regards Peter

Das leben ist wie ein Perpetuum Mobile mit ein Mangel..... Immer im Bewegung jedoch nicht unendlich. (life is like a troubled Perpetuum Mobile ever moving but not for ever)

Tricked throughout the centuries...

For centuries people had been tricked by kings & "religion-alism"

In the 20th century people got tricked by communism

Today people get tricked by (neo)capitalism  :) 


#4 lapis

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 11:34

Crass! Now that's what I call a review -- a real comparative study!! Especially your shots of mixabilities....

Very interesting. I have only about  of them and they sure are all different!!!

Thanks for your time and effort  :)  :)


Life is too short to drink bad wine (Goethe)


#5 LizB

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 11:39

Excellent review!

 

I have Fog Grey and haven't noticed any extreme feathering, to be honest. I have now just got the Urban Grey and I like it a lot. A very neutral grey.



#6 Lgsoltek

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 11:44

Btw Dr J as far as I under stood Dr J sent your prize out last week Did you receive it?


No I don't think I've received anything yet. Maybe we'll wait a few more days. Is there a tracking number for it?
 

But I was about to send you a letter..So I will send you the Original

Any other D-A colour you like to see?
Akkerman Lievens Kardinaal paars is Stunning too as is Bekakt Haags

Regards Peter

 

Surprise me!  :D



#7 cjr

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 12:47

The Document inks are some of my favorites. I’ve used the CMYK mixing guide on Blundell’s site and come up with some nice colors for my own use. These inks are the most permanent inks I know of. The only other ink that matches them in permanence is Noodler’s Kung te Cheng, but is is a stubborn ink that requires a lot of extra care to keep from drying out or clogging.

The DeAtramentis Documnent inks are so easy to work with that I use them in many of my better pens. I’ve found they tend to feather and bleed more than most. I get best results with EF and F nibs.
Favorite pen/ink pairings: Sheaffer Legacy w/18k extra fine inlaid nib and Noodler's Black; Sheaffer PFM III fine w/14k inlaid nib and Noodler's Black; Lamy 2000 EF with Noodler's 54th Massachusetts; Franklin Christoph 65 Stablis w/steel Masuyama fine cursive italic and DeAtramentis Document Blue; Pineider Avatar w/fine nib and Noodler's Bad Belted Kingfisher; Karas Kustoms Fountain K w/steel extra fine nib and Platinum Pigment Blue; Pilot Decimo w/18k fine nib and Noodles's Black; Franklin Christoph 45 w/steel Masuyama fine cursive italic and Noodler's Zhivago; Pilot Explorer w/medium nib and Noodler's El Lawrence; TWSBI ECO EF with Noodler's Bad Green Gator.

#8 Morbus Curiositas

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 13:57

Excellent review!

 

I have Fog Grey and haven't noticed any extreme feathering, to be honest. I have now just got the Urban Grey and I like it a lot. A very neutral grey.

 

Thank you :)

 

I am testing the Grey/Fog Blue at this moment no problems till now. I will post a scan of the tests later


Das leben ist wie ein Perpetuum Mobile mit ein Mangel..... Immer im Bewegung jedoch nicht unendlich. (life is like a troubled Perpetuum Mobile ever moving but not for ever)

Tricked throughout the centuries...

For centuries people had been tricked by kings & "religion-alism"

In the 20th century people got tricked by communism

Today people get tricked by (neo)capitalism  :) 


#9 Morbus Curiositas

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 14:00

Crass! Now that's what I call a review -- a real comparative study!! Especially your shots of mixabilities....

Very interesting. I have only about  of them and they sure are all different!!!

Thanks for your time and effort  :)  :)

 

Thanks you :)

 

Is there a Docu ink you want to test? 


Das leben ist wie ein Perpetuum Mobile mit ein Mangel..... Immer im Bewegung jedoch nicht unendlich. (life is like a troubled Perpetuum Mobile ever moving but not for ever)

Tricked throughout the centuries...

For centuries people had been tricked by kings & "religion-alism"

In the 20th century people got tricked by communism

Today people get tricked by (neo)capitalism  :) 


#10 Morbus Curiositas

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 14:20

The Document inks are some of my favorites. I’ve used the CMYK mixing guide on Blundell’s site and come up with some nice colors for my own use. These inks are the most permanent inks I know of. The only other ink that matches them in permanence is Noodler’s Kung te Cheng, but is is a stubborn ink that requires a lot of extra care to keep from drying out or clogging.

The DeAtramentis Documnent inks are so easy to work with that I use them in many of my better pens. I’ve found they tend to feather and bleed more than most. I get best results with EF and F nibs.

 

Do not get me wrong after living together for over 12 years I married the love of my life last August...

 

That said …. I❤️ Jane Blundell 

Must try some of her mixes again

 

Dr J´s Idea when developing the document inks was that they should not only be "indestructible" but, In contrary to i.e IG-inks, should be safe to for both the Fountain-Pens and the papers used. They Also should be easy to use so that people actually use them

 

On the Feathering:

 

I noticed that sometimes with some inks of De Atramentis and other inks. Funnily this does not happen always, sometime another bottle of the same ink performs better in this aspect.

 

I guess they are from different badges. I love handmade things and I guess these sometimes differ slightly from time to time just like wines in different wine years.

 

That said Feathering is a nuisance, but knowing Dr J. a bit in giving his best effort, I am sure he would be glad to be informed about this.

 

So please send him an E-mail with your feed back

http://info@de-atramentis.com

 

Regards 

 

Peter

 

p.s. a bit off topic but I love the dog in your profile photo. Maybe you can do something more of topic and post a photo with a front view of your beagle?  ;)


Edited by Morbus Curiositas, 17 November 2018 - 14:22.

Das leben ist wie ein Perpetuum Mobile mit ein Mangel..... Immer im Bewegung jedoch nicht unendlich. (life is like a troubled Perpetuum Mobile ever moving but not for ever)

Tricked throughout the centuries...

For centuries people had been tricked by kings & "religion-alism"

In the 20th century people got tricked by communism

Today people get tricked by (neo)capitalism  :) 


#11 Morbus Curiositas

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 14:23

No I don't think I've received anything yet. Maybe we'll wait a few more days. Is there a tracking number for it?
 

 

Surprise me!  :D

 

That´s weird... Must ask Dr J for the tracking number


Das leben ist wie ein Perpetuum Mobile mit ein Mangel..... Immer im Bewegung jedoch nicht unendlich. (life is like a troubled Perpetuum Mobile ever moving but not for ever)

Tricked throughout the centuries...

For centuries people had been tricked by kings & "religion-alism"

In the 20th century people got tricked by communism

Today people get tricked by (neo)capitalism  :) 


#12 lapis

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 14:51

 

Thanks you :)

 

Is there a Docu ink you want to test? 

It would thrill me if you could post five scans alongside each other of writings (the broader the nib, the better) with the document-inks: Grau, Urban Grey and Blaugrau ... plus... document Fog Grey and Fog Grey (non-document). That would be perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

:puddle:  :puddle:  :puddle:  :puddle:  :puddle:  


Life is too short to drink bad wine (Goethe)


#13 Morbus Curiositas

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 16:02

It would thrill me if you could post five scans alongside each other of writings (the broader the nib, the better) with the document-inks: Grau, Urban Grey and Blaugrau ... plus... document Fog Grey and Fog Grey (non-document). That would be perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

:puddle:  :puddle:  :puddle:  :puddle:  :puddle:  

 

Dear Lapis

 

I currently have following grey De Atramentis in my ink cellar

 

 

Document Grey

Document Blue Grey

Document Urban Grey

Mouse Grey

Cement Grey

Silver Grey

Sahara Grey 

 

Last one being more like Sahara Graun  or Sahara Greeyn to use your Wortwitz

 

I will ask Dr J About Fog Grey and Document Fog grey (some believe this is the same as Blue Grey which would be quite confusing then) 

 I have seen a normal ink named Nebelgrau which as you know is  in English Nebelgrau.

 

Well again I will ask Dr J

 

BTW what do you mean with

five scans alongside each other of writings (the broader the nib, the better)

 

5 Written sentences along side each other or 5 Pages filled with text each written with a different grey?


Das leben ist wie ein Perpetuum Mobile mit ein Mangel..... Immer im Bewegung jedoch nicht unendlich. (life is like a troubled Perpetuum Mobile ever moving but not for ever)

Tricked throughout the centuries...

For centuries people had been tricked by kings & "religion-alism"

In the 20th century people got tricked by communism

Today people get tricked by (neo)capitalism  :) 


#14 Morbus Curiositas

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 16:21

:notworthy1:  :notworthy1:  :notworthy1:

Thank you for this major comparison!!! Bad breath test LOL!

 

I have only tried two of the Document inks. The Red is too undersaturated for my liking. The Fog Grey (is it called "Blue Grey" here?) feathers and bleeds like crazy...

 

 

Excellent review!

 

I have Fog Grey and haven't noticed any extreme feathering, to be honest. I have now just got the Urban Grey and I like it a lot. A very neutral grey.

 

Dear Liz , dear LG Soltek

 

Well I have tried the Blue Grey on several papers ranging from utterly cheap (both side used twice recycled (bleached to remove the brown stains ;) ) toilet paper sold as copying paper to classy Clairfontaine Velouté* paper

 

7VjxtTA.jpg

 

No feathering  :)

 

 

Then again may be some badges were different. As I mentioned to CJR in post 10 you best contact Dr J about this 

 

btw Velouté

 

https://youtu.be/VDQ2b2W8EN0

 

Must try that boil Some Clairfontaine Paper  and poor it over some Tournedos

 

you are all invited for dinner

 

Bon Appetit  :happyberet:


Edited by Morbus Curiositas, 17 November 2018 - 16:23.

Das leben ist wie ein Perpetuum Mobile mit ein Mangel..... Immer im Bewegung jedoch nicht unendlich. (life is like a troubled Perpetuum Mobile ever moving but not for ever)

Tricked throughout the centuries...

For centuries people had been tricked by kings & "religion-alism"

In the 20th century people got tricked by communism

Today people get tricked by (neo)capitalism  :) 


#15 Morbus Curiositas

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 16:29

:notworthy1:  :notworthy1:  :notworthy1:

Thank you for this major comparison!!! Bad breath test LOL!

 

I have only tried two of the Document inks. The Red is too undersaturated for my liking. The Fog Grey (is it called "Blue Grey" here?) feathers and bleeds like crazy...

 

 

Dear LG Soltek

 

I again confirm that the red ink was not very saturated, this time with a picture to underscore that

 

gSQUvAl.jpg

 

 

The 2018 badge does do a much better job here, though it still is not very saturated. Me being not a great fan of red inks, I mostly use them for text that have to stand out, prefer the Dark Red

 

The dark red is more like a warm writing ink.

 

 

Will post a small comparison of my red and red brown inks though soon


Das leben ist wie ein Perpetuum Mobile mit ein Mangel..... Immer im Bewegung jedoch nicht unendlich. (life is like a troubled Perpetuum Mobile ever moving but not for ever)

Tricked throughout the centuries...

For centuries people had been tricked by kings & "religion-alism"

In the 20th century people got tricked by communism

Today people get tricked by (neo)capitalism  :) 


#16 LizEF

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 17:16

...

 

Thanks for the extensive review!  Gonna have to get me a few more samples. :lol:


Edited by LizEF, 17 November 2018 - 18:35.


#17 lapis

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 17:29

5 Written sentences along side each other or 5 Pages filled with text each written with a different grey?

  • It's really easy -- as long as you have the Document Fog Grey and the standard Fog Grey (i.e. the "non-document" Fog Grey) -- then those 2 plus these 3 which you do have: Document Grey, Document Blue Grey, Document Urban Grey.
  • I have the feeling that Document Fog Grey (Dokumententinte Nebelgrau) = Document Blue-Grey (Dokumententinte Blaugrau).
  • With "5 writings", I mean only a word or two written with a pen, not a swab
  • BTW my Sahara Grey bottle (or whatever) is labelled Sahara Graun. This has always led me to believe that Dr J either did that on purpose as a melting of the words and colours Grau + Grün (grey + green) or he misspelled it by accident. In any case, mine is definitely a greenish grey....

TIA,

Mike


Life is too short to drink bad wine (Goethe)


#18 Tas

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 18:20

Wow.
Thank you.
Will take a closer look.

 

Is this any better?

fpn_cdZaRoP.jpg


Edited by Tas, 17 November 2018 - 22:39.


#19 Morbus Curiositas

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 18:51

Wow.
Thank you.
Will take a closer look.

 

Is this any better?

fpn_cdZaRoP.jpg

 

A lot better the white of the paper is white now.

 

Although the yellow still has this orange Hue (please compare with the scan)

 

GYgpLBw.jpg

 

 

This is he print screen of lightroom. My laptop (asus) can show 100% RGB and the monitor is calibrated

 

Have a look at the histogram… Peak on the left and peak on the right ( I guess this has to do with the high contrast between Black and White

 

BTW Used non direct light and calibrated my camera with a grey card


Das leben ist wie ein Perpetuum Mobile mit ein Mangel..... Immer im Bewegung jedoch nicht unendlich. (life is like a troubled Perpetuum Mobile ever moving but not for ever)

Tricked throughout the centuries...

For centuries people had been tricked by kings & "religion-alism"

In the 20th century people got tricked by communism

Today people get tricked by (neo)capitalism  :) 


#20 putteringpenman

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 18:57

Wow! Thank you so much for this fantastic review! I want to try these out now.


Currently inked:

- Pilot Custom 823 <M> with Pilot Blue-Black

- Pelikan M120 Iconic Blue <B> with Pilot Iroshizuku Kon-Peki

- Pilot Cocoon <M> with Pilot Black

- Pilot E95S <F> with Pilot Blue

YouTube fountain pen reviews: https://www.youtube....akktBMGg/videos






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: de atramentis, de atramentis document inks, document inks, waterproof inks



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