British Waterman Demonstrator?

[Estragon]

I posted this pen over in the Waterman's subforum but no one was able to identify it. Hoping I might have better luck over here.

 

Both barrel and cap are entirely translucent aside from the green marble pattern. The imprints on the barrel and nib are English. It has a clip and lever common to British Watermans of the 30s, but unlike these it lacks a cap band. I'm always wary of considering just any translucent vintage pen to be a demonstrator, but I've never seen or heard anything about this model being catalogued (don't think it's represented in the Davis-Lehrer book either). Anyone have any clues?

 

 

 

[northlodge]

I believe this material was used by Valentine in the 1930's, I have seen examples in both green and bronze.

 

Pre WW2 the output from this company was not entirely for Parker, they would make items under contract for anyone who had a requirement. If Waterman were having a production issue, or perhaps demand was booming, then this might have been a solution Waterman turned to.

 

I do not know enough about Waterman to be confident to say such an occasion did arise, but it is a possibility. Then again they may have simply sourced their materials from the same supplier as Valentine.

 

I would however not term this a "demonstrator" in the normal sense.

Edited November 13, 2018 by northlodge

[peterg]

Pre war Altura were the main manufacturer of pens for Waterman's but Malcolm Troak said that, pre war, Valentine's did work for Waterman's (although he was referring to chasing on bhr) but the section more strongly resembles Valentine/ Parker than the standard Waterman section.

 

Translucent celluloids were one of the Thirties fashions. Both Conway's and Mentmore (& probably others) used it on rubber saced pens!

[Estragon]

Interesting, I was aware of the connection between Valentine and Parker but didn't know this extended to Waterman's as well.

 

northlodge: Do you happen to know the model name/number of the pens for which Valentine used this plastic?

[Wardok]

I've seen them in size 01 button fillers and size 03 lever fillers. Valentine didn't use the transparent plastic for the cap but the normal marble colour - so your pen would have had a green marble cap.

[chunya]

What a lovely pen. I always think that these transparent pens look so fragile, which adds to their charm, but the reality is that they are probably as robust as any other celluloid pen.

 

I agree Northlodge. I have a 1920s Parker, fairly rare, that is often referred to as a Demonstrator, but I believe it is just a transparent example made for the public / wider market.

Edited November 15, 2018 by chunya

[northlodge]

Interesting, I was aware of the connection between Valentine and Parker but didn't know this extended to Waterman's as well.

 

northlodge: Do you happen to know the model name/number of the pens for which Valentine used this plastic?

 

Wardok knows more than most about Valentine models, so I am sure he is spot on in his comments.

 

I do not believe Valentine had the same relationship with Waterman as with parker, they were simply a 'gun for hire' and it might of suited Waterman to throw some work their way. This is different from the long-term relationship and consistent product designs that were Parker - valentine..

 

Peter - Was Troak the guy who wrote the Newhaven book? (my copy has long since vanished)

[PaulS]

just in case Peter has gone to bed :-) - yes, it was Malcolm Troak.

[peterg]

just in case Peter has gone to bed :-) - yes, it was Malcolm Troak.

No and yes!

 

Valentine's was one of the companies that aimed for the stars but only cleared the roof. For one reason or another they failed to establish themselves as a major manufacturer and had to take work from where ever they could find it. Like Altura, much of it was anonymous or for third parties and largely unidentifiable. Similarly they were also one of the few nib manufacturers.

 

Waterman's didn't have a manufacturing base in the UK until after the war, so it is quite likely that they would try several manufacturers before settling on a preferred supplier.