A Word On Sailor Nibs

[TheDutchGuy]

Perhaps this is of some use to someone.

 

Sailor nibs (including the ones in the Cross Peerless 125) tend to have a pencil-like feedback: smooth, but not slippery. There is texture. It's pleasant. Not every nib will feel the same, some have more of this feedback, some less.

 

Sailor nibs are also quite sensitive to rotation (around the pen's long axis) and angle between pen and paper. Sailor wishes you to hold the pen a certain way, perhaps to better facilitate the creation of elaborate Asian characters. Outside of the sweet spot, the pen might feel rough or even scratchy.

 

My Sailors have sometimes fooled me into thinking that there was something wrong with one of my Sailors. I'd wake up, grab one, and it would feel different from the day before. Or I'd grab one after using a very forgiving Visconti and it would feel like a 'difficult' pen. Or I'd use one for quick note taking at work, ignoring the accuracy that's needed to stay in the sweet spot and it would irritate me.

 

The temptation then rears up to whip out the hand lens and the 12k grit and have a go at the nib. I've learned that this is not just unnecessary but also extremely unwise. These nibs have a complex shape, with various facets and carefully created angles. They're intricate. If you so much as look at 12k grit with these nibs, they'll feel subtly different. You won't destroy the nib with a light touch of 12k, but you will subtly change it almost at once. Also, the much-encountered pitfall of not knowing when to stop is hard to avoid with these nibs.

 

Long story short: if you suddenly don't like your Sailor anymore, leave it and come back later. It's probably you that's changed, not the pen. If you still don't like it a day later, perhaps you can try another ink. The lubrication of some inks will substantially diminish the feeling of the 'rotation police' without changing the nib. I've found that I enjoy my Sailors most (and probably more than any other pen I own) if I use them all the time. They require your full attention and don't take kindly to adultery :-) .

[pajaro]

So, that's why I never liked the Sailor pens I used to have. We have a cat, and that's enough catering to wierdness for me. The Sailor pens moved on.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I developed a trick for those having problems with an Oblique, Line up your clip directly in line with the slit, that will help stop you from rotating/canting the nib off it's small sweet spot.

 

Of course one could go for a wider nib for a wider sweet spot, a M would be an European F, and a B would be a wide enough European M.

[Karmachanic]

One of those rare occurences where the PPP (Posting Police Policy) and Design Department fully agree. One always alines ones clip with the nib slit. Allowances are made for Italian pens, of course.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Karmachanic

[bass1193]

I developed a trick for those having problems with an Oblique, Line up your clip directly in line with the slit, that will help stop you from rotating/canting the nib off it's small sweet spot.

Great advice, Bo Bo! I use this trick with my lone oblique, a Sport V12. Of course, I'm lining up the cap imprint since no clip, but same idea. I'll try this when I finally save enough to buy a Sailor. Most expensive of the big 3!

[Uncial]

Some Sailor nibs can be buttery smooth. In terms of what I own, one is perfection on the smoothness scale, some have a small bit of feedback (but barely noticeable) and one has a very narrowly defined sweet spot. Only a standard 1911 had feedback I couldn't cope with at all.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Check the grind angle of your Oblique.

If 15 degrees line up so the marking, clip is between the slit and the right shoulder, that will cant the nib properly....grip the pen in the air, and write. Don't fiddle around doing things with the nib on the paper.

 

If you have a rare 30degree grind, align the clip, imprint at the right edge of the shoulder....grip in the air and write.

[zaddick]

Why are you talking about obliques Bobo? The OP has nothing to do with obliques as Sailor does not make them. Sailor nibs habe a slight foot that some like and others do not.

[ErrantSmudge]

These nibs have a complex shape, with various facets and carefully created angles. They're intricate. If you so much as look at 12k grit with these nibs, they'll feel subtly different.

 

To me, this is a big part of what you're paying for when you buy a Sailor pen - the craftsmanship that went into shaping the nib the way the nibmeisters at Sailor intended. So to go out with grit paper to reshape the nib into something else is defeating the purpose. I mean, yes you can do it, but it makes much more sense to get a pen with a different style nib that is more to your taste.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Zaddick,....Bass wrote....."Great advice, Bo Bo! I use this trick with my lone oblique, a Sport V12."

So I clarified.

[ENewton]

 

To me, this is a big part of what you're paying for when you buy a Sailor pen - the craftsmanship that went into shaping the nib the way the nibmeisters at Sailor intended. So to go out with grit paper to reshape the nib into something else is defeating the purpose. I mean, yes you can do it, but it makes much more sense to get a pen with a different style nib that is more to your taste.

 

I lean in your direction, that if a nib has an unusual design, modifying it to make it write in a more conventional way feels to me like a violation of artistic intent.

 

But there are also people who buy certain pens because they admire the artistry that went into the barrel decoration, all the while wanting the same writing experience they would have with a more conventional nib. Because Japanese pens, in particular, do not lend themselves to swapping nibs with pens of Western manufacture, there is a logic to reshaping the nib into a more familiar style--the reverse approach to buying a handsome pen with a blobby nib and having it ground to something more distinctive, such as a cursive italic.

[TheDutchGuy]

So, that's why I never liked the Sailor pens I used to have.

They're certainly not for everyone. Having said that... many pens have sweet spots. I've got an old MB146 EF which has the smoothest nib I've ever felt in my life - until you rotate it. Pain and pleasure are separated by a mere degree of rotation.

 

To me, this is a big part of what you're paying for when you buy a Sailor pen - the craftsmanship that went into shaping the nib the way the nibmeisters at Sailor intended. So to go out with grit paper to reshape the nib into something else is defeating the purpose. I mean, yes you can do it, but it makes much more sense to get a pen with a different style nib that is more to your taste.

Exactly! Don't change a thing! But as I tried to explain in my original post, the human nervous system may not perceive such a finely tuned writing instrument in precisely the same way, day-in, day-out. I've gone from loving one of my Sailors to almost hating it, literally overnight. I was like: "What happened to this pen?! It was awesome yesterday and now it's scratchy!" Sailors are like a finely tuned sports car such as a Porsche 911 (not that I own one): they're awesome, but you really need to be on your toes when driving one.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Japanese nibs were designed to print a tiny script......western nibs a wider flowing cursive.

Those who print get the best out of a Japanese nib.....those who which tinier than marked and do cursive....well the printing nib was not designed for that....but some don't notice the difference, in the search for spiderweb and baby spiderweb nibs.

 

 

Dutchguy...""They're certainly not for everyone. Having said that... many pens have sweet spots. I've got an old MB146 EF which has the smoothest nib I've ever felt in my life - until you rotate it. Pain and pleasure are separated by a mere degree of rotation.""""

 

If that 146 is a medium-large '50-70 146 it was stub, then I can see that canting/rotation problem.

....'50-@70 for semi-flex stub or maxi-semi-flex stub MB nibs. Rotating/canting the nib of course takes it off it's sweet spot, it's a stub.

 

My '70-80's Large 146 is an F regular flex, and not of course stubbed, in regular flex don't work as well stubbed as semi-flex, and |I don't notice much different, but I don't cant/rotate nibs that are not oblique, on the whole.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[TheDutchGuy]

If that 146 is a medium-large '50-70 146 it was stub, then I can see that canting/rotation problem.

It's a mild architect. I've been informed here on FPN that for a few years MB used to grind its EF nibs like that. Downstrokes are very narrow, sidestrokes are wide. It's quite an old nib stamped 14C instead of 14K.

[BaronWulfraed]

It's a mild architect. I've been informed here on FPN that for a few years MB used to grind its EF nibs like that. Downstrokes are very narrow, sidestrokes are wide. It's quite an old nib stamped 14C instead of 14K.

 

I have 5 Pelikans (and 6 nibs for same) and NONE are marked 14K. The oldest an M400 in the pre-97 style, and the newest an M600 from 2014 -- all are 14C marked.

[Honeybadgers]

sailor's nibs feel like a nicely sharpened HB pencil. Even the zoom nib does.

 

Pilot's nibs feel like a nicely sharpened 2B pencil.

 

Neither is better and I love them both. Even sailor's steel nibs have that wonderful quality. The young profit skeleton is a tremendously under-appreciated pen.

[minddance]

If the writer is one who constantly rolls the pen, Sailor F and MF might work. Medium and Broad nibs are very faceted and the facets on some of these can be rather sharp and distinct without a smooth transition towards the belly of the tipping.

 

I don't know about the 2018 production in general but I have come across a 21k mf dated 2018 with rather smooth and un-sailorlike writing sensation.

 

I have come across smooth ones (dated earlier) (possibly retouched by vendors or inconsistent factory production).

 

Some people enjoy, some hate. Sailors are nothing conventional.

 

Sailor nib tipping can wear out - or smoothen after 2-3 years - remarkably more than other pens.

 

The unique shape across all nib widths control line width very well and allow precise strokes.

 

Try before you buy and buy from vendors that have good return policies in case you happen to dislike it.

 

Yes, as reported honestly and accurately by OP, the nibs have a pencil-like feedback.

 

Foe beginners, I suggest not adjusting the nibs for flow and smoothness, especially the 21k nibs, unless you really know what you are doing. These are delicate and sensitive and already well tuned out of the box.

 

These nibs are hard and marked so. They must not be flexed.

[TheDutchGuy]

Foe beginners, I suggest not adjusting the nibs for flow and smoothness, especially the 21k nibs, unless you really know what you are doing. These are delicate and sensitive and already well tuned out of the box.

Exactly. And even for non-beginners, it's perhaps better to accept the pens as they are. As was mentioned in this thread, there's a certain artistry involved in these nibs and I personally feel that should be respected.

[minddance]

Exactly. And even for non-beginners, it's perhaps better to accept the pens as they are. As was mentioned in this thread, there's a certain artistry involved in these nibs and I personally feel that should be respected.

Yes, respect and appreciation. Some of these pens are not 'just a pen' like a ballpen for quick jotting down a phone number. Of course, they can do that too.

 

To me, these are instruments capable of art when masterfully used. Some of the nibs are to mimic brushes for writing Asian characters and sensitive to angle and pressure. For a fine point nib to do that, it cannot be very round. Facets and angled cuts are necessary. But these facets can feel feedbacky or even scratchy for big and/or fast writing.

 

I used to hate Sailor nibs but decided to give them a second chance. And I am happily rewarded. Sailor pens teach my hand.

 

That said, I still cannot come to terms with the medium and broad nibs. But that is all very personal.

 

The 14k and 21k nibs write very different, if your hands are sensitive enough.

 

And no flex please, the (subtle) line variations are provided by discovering different writing angles, not by applying pressure.

 

If one is looking for a Montblanc or Pelikan, then get a Montblanc or Pel. If one is looking for a Pilot, get a Pilot. To make a Sailor write like a Pelikan is meaningless to me (I am a huge fan of Pelikan too).

 

Sailors are unique and nothing conventional.

Edited November 10, 2018 by minddance

[Tseg]

... or one can carefully beat the nib into submission, getting it to write as desired while still enjoying the look and feel of the pen body.

 

Said another way, the pens I use least are finicky pens and I want no regrets or indecision as I ink a pen.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Tseg