$87.00 Pelikan Set

[EdwardSouthgate]

Something new ( to me ) on the way . I bought this 140 / 450 set today , nib is an EF . Seller said it is an EF Ball but thats not what it looks like to me , I don't see a ball of any kind . I bought this as my daily user set . Hoping for some good flex from this EF as I already have a 400 HF .What do you think Bo Bo ?

 

Eddie

Edited November 5, 2018 by EdwardSouthgate

[Parker51]

I can't see the initials on the nib which indicate what type of nib it is. Please look closely and report the initials. They should start with a K. Ball nibs a KEF, KF and KM.

[Bo Bo Olson]

No size marking on the piston knob? Or the nib?

If no marking on the piston know, pen from after 1955.....if no marking on the nib, nib from 1954 and before.

Nibs get swapped so one could have an younger body with an older nib.

 

 

After looking at it a few more times I can buy an EF..........or an F.

Looks more F to M...OF and OM in one of the three pictures of the nib. One picture looks like it's oblique, the other two not.

 

The 140 is a medium-small pen; perfect for smaller modern shirt pockets. Medium-small was very IN in the 1950-60's. Pelikan made the 140, Osmia, Kawico, and Geha's flagship the 760 was medium small.

The cap of the medium-small 140 is longer than the 400's cap, so when posted both are @ the same length. Both balance well.

I have a green stripped and black semi-flex 140, in OB and OF. That I'm happy with.

You could put the nib of a 140 on a 400, but because the 140's nib is a good deal smaller it will look dorky.....The nib looks just fine on the pen it was designed for the 140.

 

Putting a longer 400 or 120's nib on the 140 works to write with but capping the pen then could be dangerous/bend the tip of the longer wider nibs, in the cap was designed for a shorter nib.

No reason to do so really....out side of curiosity.

It is a semi-flex.....the 120 is a nice springy regular flex.....nice enough....but not a stubbed semi-flex. With a 120 nothing is gained all, is lost. Nor is anything gained with the 400's nib.

 

'50-65 the nibs outside the 120 were stubs...flat on the bottom or flattish, and semi flex....which makes for a pattern of old fashioned fountain pen flair....(get more flair with a wider nib.. )....

It does not kook like a K nib, with the ball on the wrong side of the nib, so someone could hold a fountain pen like a pencil....or newfangled ball point.

(The nail makers like Lamy or Herlitz or Tropen used what I call tongue in cheek, the American Bump Under tipping...)

 

The major German pen companies in the '50's and 60's used semi-flex stubs.

 

I do have some no name '60's semi-flex that have the American Bump

Under. Pelikan and Geha school pens had that bump under....my 120 though has a flat spot on it...and the pen is still 100% on the gold plating so was never use much, so that I assume is factory ( a one pen sample is a limiter on authoritative statements. ), the Geha School pen's FK (K for Kugel, is ball underneath the nib like the normal American/British nibs; roundish not flattened at all). I have seen enough of those school nibs (8) to say that.

 

Normally as far as I can tell a K on a nib with semi-flex or better is on top of the nib. Soennecken, MB, Pelikan Geha, Osmia, Kaweco all made flat stubbish nibs.

I do have K nibs of the era....3, and all are flat and stubbish on the bottom, with the ball or kugel on top of the nib. An eyeball 100n in EF (first stage of superflex) ( no nib nor body marking only the k,) and a Geha and a Osmia in KM.....could be the front tipping is a tad thicker to support the ball on top. Logic says that; in modern double kugel are fatter at the tip. (Modern 400/600/800/1000. The 200 is semi-vintage tipped, so has a cleaner line.)

 

Expect a nice clean line with your stubbed semi-flex. If you don't get it, use better paper. A modern big fat wallowing nib just don't put down as clean a line IMO as semi-vintage and vintage.

 

I like the vintage Kugal nibs but hold them low like a fountain pen than high like a ball point or pencil; so I do get the stub.

 

.....(there is always a possibility of @ 1 in 5 of a nib of that era being maxi-semi-flex.....outside of Osmia where the Osmia and small diamond is semi-flex, and Osmia Supra, big or no diamond is maxi-semi-flex.) I was surprised that my Pelikan Ibis was maxi and I have a 400nn in maxi...........pure luck of the draw. My 500 is also a maxi...30 degree grind and OBBB (eyeball in you are not going to mark up the rolled gold overlay on the piston....before they started marking nibs. A pure signature pen...takes 2/3rds to 3/4ths a page for a legal signature. Good thing I have other vintage nibs I can swap in to use.

 

Hold the nib up to the light, and see if the nib has @ 15 degree grind...if so is an oblique.........It does not look like it could be one of the rarer 30 grinds.

 

I do not chase EF in semi-flex, in if one has a slight heavy hand it will write F....I do of course have a couple. One a Geha is a maxi. (some superflex)

Nibs of that era are 1/2 a width narrower (allowing for tolerance/slop of course) than modern. So an F would be = to a modern F-EF.

An M = a modern M-F or F-M.

 

If the pen and the nib are not marked, the seller could only go on his experience if he has it to say it is an EF.

I really, really cubed, don't think the pen is worth sending back if it is after all an F....it still writes skinny (skinny F as mentioned ). One gets a tad more flair from it.

 

Forgot to mention, Hell of a Buy....you are a close relative to Somegi.

 

On third thought at that price who cares if it's an EF or an F....you got over big time.

xxx

I always hated MP's including the jotter....long, long after I bought it Part of a live auction set, 400nn, 450mp &455 bp., I had the 450 out and I scribbled a line.....it wasn't until I ran out of lead...and had to figure out how to get more lead into it, that I started writing again with a fountain pen.....some six weeks. For me the 450 has great balance, just heavy enough to be stable and still light and nimble.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[DougS]

No size marking on the piston knob?

 

Never seen the nib size on a 140 piston knob.

It will be KEF if it's a kugel extra fine, stamped below the logo. The nib and feed need to be reset as they appear to be pushed in too far.

[sansenri]

nice buy, one of my favorite pens, despite the size. A great portable pen.

A closer photo of the nib would be nice.

[sargetalon]

 

Never seen the nib size on a 140 piston knob.

It will be KEF if it's a kugel extra fine, stamped below the logo. The nib and feed need to be reset as they appear to be pushed in too far.

 

 

They didn't do it for long. I have two 140s with the nib size stamped on the piston knob. That was something found circa 1952-53. You see it more on the solid colors than the green striped in my experience.

[EdwardSouthgate]

I figure the etui is worth $35 - $40 just by what I have looked at lately . That gives me $ 47.00 in the pen and pencil . I also bought a Pelikan branded etui for $ 9.99 openong bid and a tad over $6 shipping . This pen will get loaded with some Penman Sapphire as soon as I get it and flush it out , will hope for the best on the flex . Tines look long enough to flex .

 

I am looking at a couple of 100's . One with 2 chicks and 100% green on the cap with the striped clip and matching single wide band and Cn nib. Seller says its an OM but there is an F at the base of the nibb The other is 4 chicks with smooth clip and two thin bands and A Pd Fine nib . Seller says it is semi flex and the tines are very long in front of the feed so I can easily believe it . Which one do I want ?? Both green striped .

 

Eddie

Edited November 6, 2018 by EdwardSouthgate

[Bo Bo Olson]

OK, it's not semi-flex it's semi-flex.

Then it comes down to what you think is flexibility. Tine bend and spread, and how much. Coming from nail, some folks have thought regular flex to be semi-flex in there was tine bend and tine spread.

Superflex tine spread starts at IM0 4 X, 5-6X is about normal, and 7X is rare outside the sprung nibs you see on YouTube. Superflex also has to do with ease of tine bend, which is much, less than semi-flex by two flex rates to the first stage of superflex; Easy Full Flex, and three to Wet Noodle.

 

So if one comes to semi-flex from nail, 'almost' (semi) is closer to superflex than what I, who came from regular flex thinks; which is semi-flex's almost is to me.

Mash a regular flex to 3X tine spread vs a light down stroke.

Semi-flex takes half of that pressure to reach 3X. (27)

Maxi, half of that or 1/4th of regular to reach 3 X. (16)

Superflex.....easy full flex, half of that or 1/8th, wet noodle half of that or 1/16th** So semi-flex is far away from superflex. (8-10 total)

** The more superflex, the more wet noodles, the more variance in the set. But as a place to start, it sounds good to me.

 

I see a semi-flex nib as a nib that adds that old fashioned fountain pen flair with out having to do anything. Flair, the first letter of a word is a bit fatter or parts of it from a tad extra pressure that is all natural and not 'added' unless you want too. the e at the end of a word has a thicker body and a nice narrowing trailing line, a T is crossing shows a bit more flair.

If you want to go heavy on double L...that can look nice.

 

Yes, if you work hard at it, you can with in the set's (regular flex, semi-flex, maxi-semi-flex) 3X a light down stroke, do fancy writing with a semi-flex....is easier with a maxi. 3X is the max you want to spread the tines.........and not all the time.

It is far, far from a superflex.

 

If you have a Italic calligraphy book, one can learn a few nice decenders to stick on a word at the end of the paragraph. If you draw the decender you can go from EF to M and back.

Trying to push the nib to B, will spring it. Sooner than later.

 

The next thing is this your first semi-flex? It took me some three months of coming to semi-flex Ham Fisted to get down to a lighter Hand, I wasn't maxing the nib all the time.

 

Stub & CI are always 100% line variation, semi-flex is Line Variation on Demand.....a good poster said that. If your Hand is light, you have to decided to add line variation.

If your Hand is heavy, you will get a lot of line variation, even if perhaps you didn't want it. The semi-flex is a sturdy nib, so will survive the three or less months to a lighter Hand.

 

 

 

In the '50's the Torpedo Shape of the 140/120 was real IN, Swan, MB 146/9, Geha, some Osmia at least had a torpedo shaped barrel.