Vintage British Waterman "demonstrator"?

[Estragon]

After missing out on what I think was the same pen listed a couple times by a different seller a few months back, I finally landed this one (for about twice the price, but alas). Can anyone identify what model it is or tell me anything about it?

 

Both barrel and cap are entirely translucent aside from the green marble pattern. The imprints on the barrel and nib are English. It has a clip and lever common to British Watermans of the 30s and 40s, but unlike these it lacks a cap band. I'm always wary of considering just any translucent vintage pen to be a demonstrator, but I've never seen or heard anything about this model being catalogued (don't think it's represented in the Davis-Lehrer book either). Anybody have any clues?

 

 

 

 

[Left FPN]

A 32 perhaps.

 

Those cheapskate Englanders using poor materials again.

 

That nib looks bbbbbbbbbbbbrrrrrroooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaddddddddddddddd

[Estragon]

Might could be. Then again, it has no number stamp on the end, it's a bit shorter than any of my 32s (including an export model in Mahogany), and I wasn't aware that 32s ever came with this kind of lever. Aside from length and lack of cap band, this one bears a strong affinity to another English Waterman in my collection:

 

 

It's another pen I haven't been able to pin a model name on (English 2B nib and identical imprint).

 

You're right about the nib: it's a BB/BBB stub with nice flex! You really can't beat these English 2As and 2Bs.

[mana]

That sure is pretty.... and that nib...

[eachan]

I think the transparency is just a form of fading. I've seen the same thing with other pens, particularly Mentmores.

[Estragon]

I've seen pens go transparent as a result of plastic deterioration. Perhaps it's difficult to tell from the photos, but I can say with confidence that this isn't the case here. The transparency is too uniform, extends evenly from the matching black endcaps on the top of the cap and bottom of the the barrel, and reaches into none of the marbled portions whatsoever, which are entirely opaque with no fading to their vibrant green color. When celluloid has deteriorated to such an extent that it's been made transparent, one inevitably finds irregularities such as crazing or crystallization. No such irregularities are present on this pen. I'm also not aware of any opaque green marble Waterman that has the dimensions and trim configuration of this pen (bandless with nickel-plated clip).

 

All signs point to it having left the factory this way. As a matter of fact, the plastic is quite similar to an unusual Swan Safety eyedropper from the same period, which I recently posted in the MT subforum (presumably made specially for use by British civil servants in the field):

 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Estragon

[eachan]

It's quite untrue that "one inevitably finds irregularities such as crazing or crystallization."

[PaulS]

sorry, regret unable to help remotely with the Waterman - not my scene - but some idle thoughts on possible fading, or not, of celluloid. BHR doesn't like the light either and oxidises to produce a horrible brownish-green, though unlike celluloid, that can be treated to return the pen to black.

 

I could be very wrong, but genuine fading is likely the result of certain marble colours being fugitive to light - celluloid pens exposed to daylight or in sun will tend to bleach - mid C20 they didn't value or care for f.ps. as we do.

Since Mentmore have been mentioned, and since I have a few, they will do to show conditions relating to fading or similar - all pens are celluloid.

 

first picture shows an Auto-Flow from the 1940s where original light and dark burgundy pearl and black has been covered by the cap and remained fresh - though the rest of the pen has faded badly. The second picture shows same pen compared with an unfaded 'Visi-Ink' model, which gives an idea how this colour, or similar, appeared when new.

Third picture shows Ink-Lock and Diploma (the earlier full sized nib model), both in the same livery of black and silver marble with occasional red veining, and where the Diploma has a partially transparent barrel, similar to the o.ps. Waterman.

IMHO this effect is not the result of fading since the disappearance of most of the colour is too extreme in degree, but shows, possibly, a pen that left the factory with a barrel only partially coloured - have to remember that what may have been a mostly clear celluloid barrel has in the last 60 - 70 years discoloured to a dirty amber. In the final picture the bar can be seen inside the barrel. Also a possibility that 1940s pens - some of which are known to have been sold with non-matching cap and barrel, may also have been short-changed as to full uniform colour.

With this Diploma, my opinion is that had fading been the culprit then the rest of the pen would have suffered similarly, so I'd agree with Estragon that examples such as these departed the factory as we see them and not as a result of fading or deterioration.

 

I thought that the ends of Waterman's 100 Year Pen was Lucite - and so was the P51 - so why those coloured ends fail completely I've no idea, but oddly you get the same thing with Mentmore. The later face-lift Diplomas from the late 1940s, with small nibs, were made with a coloured translucent rounded addition to the end to the barrel, and these like the 100 Year Pen can disintegrate, but not always.

Edited November 13, 2018 by PaulS

[Estragon]

Thank you, Paul. This is an excellent illustration of how celluloid fades and how it doesn't. For what it's worth, I agree with all your assessments here. I would've never imagined the color of that first pen began as burgundy were it not for the portion of the barrel protected by the cap where the original color was preserved. That's quite a dramatic change! I have in my collection a button-filled Mentmore Diploma with hatched celluloid similar to Valentines/Duofolds of the era. The portions between the hatches are transparent on both the barrel and the cap. It's another pen that clearly left the factory this way, adding to the array of different plastics offered by this maker at the time.

 

With regard to Waterman HYPs, it's my understanding that the Mk I (1939) and Mk II (1940) pens were Lucite. These remain stable and are not particularly prone to crystallization/disintegration. In 1941-2 Waterman began making HYPs entirely from celluloid. These later models are the pens whose ends are particularly prone to crystallization.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Estragon