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Springy Steel Nib That Resists Adjustment

visconti rembrandt steel springy nib adjustment wet

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#1 KingRoach

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 22:54

Hi all.

 

How do you adjust a very springy steel nib that resists adjustment? I'm trying to make my Visconti Rembrandt nib wetter but any effect I get is temporary as the nib eventually goes back to its original condition.

 

Best regards



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#2 TheDutchGuy

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 18:27

There are several things you might try that do not involve tinkering with the nib. I've got a Visconti van Gogh and in the beginning it was dry. Bone dry. It didn't stay dry. Ultimately it became quite wet. So if you physically alter the nib to make it wetter, you might want to reverse it further down the line.

#3 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 20:30

Try a wetter ink...and or a slicker paper.

 

What inks are you using?

What paper are you using?

For every day good economical  paper, I like Oxford Optic 90g....same paper used in Red&Black notebooks. I have a spiral note book of it.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#4 KingRoach

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 22:11

I use Oxford Optik and plenty of fountain pens and inks. I've been comparing this to one particular lamy M nib that I have that has been particularly pleasingly wet and allowed certain inks to really show their characteristics.

 

The Visconti nib (maybe because it's springy), even when it's made as wet with some pressure, seems to almost wash the ink across the line rather than allow it to shade. It seems to act like a brush rather than a nib. Also note that I don't normally use pressure when writing with a fountain pen, but with this one, sometimes I do to let the ink flow.

 

I'm wondering if nib adjustment is particularly different on very springy nibs. Someone suggested to open up the nib shoulders a little bit, but I don't like the idea of twisting the types inwards due to that.



#5 jekostas

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 22:54

 

I'm wondering if nib adjustment is particularly different on very springy nibs. Someone suggested to open up the nib shoulders a little bit, but I don't like the idea of twisting the types inwards due to that.

 

This is, by far, the best method to widen the nib slit.  Put your nails under the shoulders of the nib and pull gently straight out.  Unless you're really using a lot of force you shouldn't be twisting the tines inward.  If you do, pull the shoulders down slightly with your thumb and forefinger, with the feed facing the palm of your hand.  Use a loupe to check your work.

 

Do *not* use the method of putting your thumbnail on the top of the nib and pushing the tines against a hard surface.  This introduces mechanical fatigue at the narrowest and weakest part the tine, and is a good way to spring your nib.



#6 _InkyFingers

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 23:19

Just curious, can you remove the nib from the nib unit?  If you can, try this simple method:

 

Use a Q-Tip or cotton swap, use toothpaste.  Brush the nib, the entire nib and try to get between the tines.

Rinse and wipe dry.

Then rinse and wipe with saliva.

 

Replace the nib back into the nib unit and then try.

 

Or just leave the entire nib unit in the ink for 1/2 hours and try to write with it.



#7 KingRoach

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 00:29

You just pull it out they are very easy to take apart.

 

Your method implies the possibilities of having any film on the nib that is causing the ink not to stick or flow on the nib. I like the way you're thinking, but if that was the case you would have more serious flow issues. My pen really writes well. I just want it wetter to get more depth and shading from the inks, which I know they are capable of.

 

The scary thing is that I've just seen that the tip of my tines, looking into the light, is quite visibly separated. With good contact with your feed, you really shouldn't be getting any wetter than that! Maybe the physics of my problem are not in the nib after all. What would be interesting for me though, is to see if I can link any of the performance of the pen to the very springiness of the pen (as if the nib is acting like a brush instead of a palette knife, sweeping ink along as it goes, giving the effect of less ink).



#8 _InkyFingers

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 04:09

By making your nib more wettable on the under surface, it stores some ink so that when you flex, more ink will flow. However, it doesnt always work, due to the nib design.

You can open/widen the ink channela to allow more ink to flow.

Best of luck

#9 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 08:12

Could you have set the nib too far out...................or is your nib sprung. :(

 

Modern nibs....even if yours was a springy regular flex (which I don't think Visconti is)...which is rare today.....that brush effect should not be happening.

 

It is not semi-flex (Not made by Bock for a couple generations) , which will be too wet often for shading inks.....needing a very good ink and paper match to shade because of it's natural wetness due to ease of tine spread and bend.

 

I would suspect modern nibs made by Bock to be semi-nail or nail......Same with a Pelikan outside the regular flex 200 and 1000. Bock makes the nibs for Visconti. .... along with a lot of other major companies.

 

So I suspect a sprung nib. :glare:


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#10 minddance

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 08:26

I have springy gold nibs that resist adjustment - Pilot 91 and 74.

Hot water nib yoga is what I do.

I use the plastic sheet supplied by Pilot Parallel pens, put it in between the tine slit, run it under hot water diligently.

I do this hot water yoga for many days, sometimes many times a day.

It works for me. My Pilot pens are finally writing.

And the tine alignment is perfect, no inverted canyon or canyon. And no tool marks. And not too wet.

I used to use a brass shim to open tines but spoilt a Sailor 21k nib, after failing to make it wetter with the thumb pulling apart method. Do not adjust Sailor 21k nibs.

Brass shim leaves tool marks, and sometimes quite badly, at the point of insertion.

I have also used the thumbs fingernail spreading apart.

Both these methods in my experience have caused tines to misalign in the form of inverted canyon. This would result in scratch especially if inner tines are not finished/rounded properly. Depending on angle, the sharp inner tines might even scrape paper fibres off.

And it doesn't help that pens are very often shipped with tines closely pinched together. PILOT, I am staring hard at you. For me, some form of adjustment is a must. And there is no control over where the tines move out when brass shim and thumbs are used.

For my hot water nib yoga, where the plastic sheet is positioned is very important. I place it right at the tip of the nib, furthest away from the breather hole. I tried placing it near the breather hole but the effect is not as good.

Hope this helps :)

#11 KingRoach

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 22:19

I've inspected the nib again and it has a complete open gap between the tines so I don't think it should be opened any further. I also think that nib-feed contact and positioning are just what they should be. It's a Visconti Rembrandt and these feeds are shaped to hold the nib in one place only.

I've actually tried the things you mentioned, even the plastic pilot parallel shims (be careful if you floss with that shim it actually peels/shaves the shim since it's soft, and that could clog an ink channel).

 

I've also found another thread that describes an extreme case of what I have. I think there might be something wrong with these pens in general. It can start out real wet and move on to becoming drier as you write, until you stop writing for a long time. Ink starvation, it's called, or something? In my case the pen does not stop writing, but the whole writing experience is very inconsistent and I don't enjoy this anymore since I noticed it. :(



#12 minddance

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Posted 26 October 2018 - 01:19

Then maybe it's the feed and/or air exchange problem. Good luck. I am thankful I have never fancied Visconti or any Italian pen.

#13 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 26 October 2018 - 08:34

Folks have deepened the feed channel I remember from past reading.

 

One of the many things one can learn about feeds from an Ahab....but what I read might well have been from before Ahab................because it was said a razor blade, is a Bowie for that kind of work, way too thick, with nib in place.

 

If the feed is out is another thing, with extracto blades....there it wouldn't be too thick....but be careful how the feed is held....

 

If that don't work, chop off a couple of combs/rills, like on an Ahab.

By the way my Ahab works just great, didn't have to do a thing to it.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#14 KingRoach

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Posted 27 October 2018 - 21:40

Then maybe it's the feed and/or air exchange problem. Good luck. I am thankful I have never fancied Visconti or any Italian pen.

 

To be fair I've never fancied one either. I tried one at a show and didn't feel it. But now I've been gifted this one. So I gotta make it so that I can always like it.



#15 DasKaltblut

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Posted 28 October 2018 - 00:37

I have springy gold nibs that resist adjustment - Pilot 91 and 74.

Hot water nib yoga is what I do.

I use the plastic sheet supplied by Pilot Parallel pens, put it in between the tine slit, run it under hot water diligently.

I do this hot water yoga for many days, sometimes many times a day.

It works for me. My Pilot pens are finally writing.

And the tine alignment is perfect, no inverted canyon or canyon. And no tool marks. And not too wet.

I used to use a brass shim to open tines but spoilt a Sailor 21k nib, after failing to make it wetter with the thumb pulling apart method. Do not adjust Sailor 21k nibs.

Brass shim leaves tool marks, and sometimes quite badly, at the point of insertion.

I have also used the thumbs fingernail spreading apart.

Both these methods in my experience have caused tines to misalign in the form of inverted canyon. This would result in scratch especially if inner tines are not finished/rounded properly. Depending on angle, the sharp inner tines might even scrape paper fibres off.

And it doesn't help that pens are very often shipped with tines closely pinched together. PILOT, I am staring hard at you. For me, some form of adjustment is a must. And there is no control over where the tines move out when brass shim and thumbs are used.

For my hot water nib yoga, where the plastic sheet is positioned is very important. I place it right at the tip of the nib, furthest away from the breather hole. I tried placing it near the breather hole but the effect is not as good.

Hope this helps :)


So I have a 91 that is giving me fits trying to adjust the nib - it just boings back into place with the tines so close it skips an all types of paper. This has given me hope. How long do you keep it in hot water, and what do you think is happening that makes this work?

#16 minddance

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Posted 28 October 2018 - 10:16

So I have a 91 that is giving me fits trying to adjust the nib - it just boings back into place with the tines so close it skips an all types of paper. This has given me hope. How long do you keep it in hot water, and what do you think is happening that makes this work?


Hi :) i am not sure about the science behind this. I guess heat causes expansion? I have friends using flame instead of hot water but I refuse to do that.

I put in under running water, not the whole nib but only the part that has the plastic inserted for about a minute or two.

#17 KingRoach

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 22:19

I was reading elsewhere and there was the professional opinion that heat temperature tampers with the metal's temper and may affect its physical qualities, including spring and elasticity and ability to... I don't know... stuff.



#18 minddance

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 05:40

I was reading elsewhere and there was the professional opinion that heat temperature tampers with the metal's temper and may affect its physical qualities, including spring and elasticity and ability to... I don't know... stuff.


Yes, I am quite sure there is science behind all this therefore I am not strongly advocating the use of my method.

Whenever there is heat involved, temperature is important. I failed to mention at what temperature this hot water nib yoga was done. I leave it open to interested users to experiment.
Likewise for advocaters of micromeshing and splitting tines with thumbs, there is no mention of exact amount of force and duration.

As with all methods of nib adjustment, we have to do it at our discretion: there is risk involved.

I am sure all methods have their pros and cons.

End of disclaimer :)

#19 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 10:10

Hot water is not hot enough to worry tempering of metal. With in a second you are going to be putting your bare thumb and fingers on the nib and feed to press them together, so it's not that hot.

 

From my reading using hot water is better for ebonite feeds, in they being hard rubber instead of plastic, heat form/bend better.

Not having had that problem....don't know how well that works with a plastic feed.

Hell, I don't even go yanking nibs out...........................a couple of times only. They went right back on real nice. But one has to be sure that the nib is not too far out...extending too far out from the feed.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#20 DasKaltblut

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 18:20

Hi :) i am not sure about the science behind this. I guess heat causes expansion? I have friends using flame instead of hot water but I refuse to do that.

I put in under running water, not the whole nib but only the part that has the plastic inserted for about a minute or two.

 Flame?? That sounds extreme!!!





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