Green 400/450 Set

[EdwardSouthgate]

Just won these on ebay for the $185 opening bid . The flock grows ! HF 585 nib ,

 

Eddie

[langere]

Oh, it's gorgeous! Congratulations!

 

Erick

[Bo Bo Olson]

Beautiful condition....be aware that the 450 is very dangerous. I finally got around to using mine, in I'd always hated MP, and didn't write with a fountain pen for six weeks. Great balance.

 

@ a proper price. Would cost @ the same on German Ebay....with luck E140-50. Good deal, especially the condition, which is more than I'd expect for that price over here.

[EdwardSouthgate]

Thanks Bo Bo and Langere . Bo Bo , the seller is in Hamburg according to his listed location on Ebay . I got the brown T set with the OB nib on friday . You were right , the nib is a dream ! Not hardly super flex but a bit more than I would think of as semi flex . All the pictures I have posted are the sellers , I do not have any skill with these digital cameras but will try to post some pictures when I can enlist the help of a small child , they all seem to be well versed in such matters . I have a Montblanc 334 1/2 with a frozen piston soaking in cold water to play with until these come and the brown set to write with so life is pretty good for me today . The condition of the brown T set was excellent ++ as pictured in the sellers auction so I have high hopes for these .

 

Best Regards <*))))><

Eddie

 

PS: For the record I am the short fat guy in my picture , the tall child is my then 16 year old son . HE HAS GROWN SINCE THEN !!

Edited October 21, 2018 by EdwardSouthgate

[EdwardSouthgate]

Also seller says these are 1950's pens , do ya'll agree ?

[DougS]

Also seller says these are 1950's pens , do ya'll agree ?

Yes.

 

Nice set, congrats! Did you get the case?

[EdwardSouthgate]

Yes.

 

Nice set, congrats! Did you get the case?

 

Unfortunately there was not a case as part of the auction . I do have an original leather zipper pouch on the way from another seller , should be leaving NY tomorrow . Bought it for the Brown set so I guess I will need to hunt another .

 

Eddie

Edited October 22, 2018 by EdwardSouthgate

[Bo Bo Olson]

"""You were right , the nib is a dream !""""

 

 

Well with your OB coming, if from the '50-65 era, will let you know if your 400 is semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex.........in the 'odds in my book' say it's unlikely to get two maxi's back to back right off the bat. I WAG one in 5 being maxi back then.

 

Maxi, is out side of Osmia, luck of the draw...I have some 27 semi-flex and 16 maxi's....a couple on Pelikans, and a MB and a Geha, and a couple of others. The Osmia Supra nib be it steel or gold is maxi. I might have 4, I might have 5 Osmia Supra nibs....the non-Supra nibs with the small diamond, are semi-flex. To confuse matters Supra comes in big diamond & Supra and just Supra.

 

Semi-flex gives you that old fashioned fountain pen flair, with out doing anything.......well if you have a calligraphy book, one can do a fancy decender or such occasionally at the end of a paragraph, or a fancy crossed T.....the first letter is often wider, because of ease of tine spread and bend.

 

Maxi is much easier to do a bit of fancy.... ....does require opening a book and learning to draw an alphabet.... or cheat a lot with an open book. It too is not super flex, being limited like regular flex, and semi-flex to a 3 X tine spread............pushing for more = $$$$ nib repair.

 

I was rather ham fisted when I got my 140 semi-flex....in spite of being back into fountain pens a year or so.....I'd spent 45 or more years plowing the south forty with out the mule, using a ball point.

It took me some 3 months to lighten my hand so I wasn't maxing the nib so often.

 

Which was lucky....in the next 'semi-flex' pen I got was actually a maxi..a 400nn, and my hand was light enough I didn't even know that it was a maxi. Just thought it a semi-flex.

I'd not run into that Rupp nib that gave me the idea that there was another flex class between semi-flex and first stage of superflex. That's when I developed my 1/2 & 1/2 & 1/2 system of nib flex measurements.

Regular flex if well mashed will go 3 X a light down stroke.

Semi-flex takes half of that.

Maxi, half of semi-flex or 1/4th of regular flex to go to 3 X.

 

OB is a wonderful nib, it is fat enough sweet spot that you don't have to be as precise as one has to be with thinner OM or OF nibs. Do cant the nib.**

I always recommend going with an OB as first semi-flex oblique. (So I lose all the narrow people right off the bat..(OB or even OM, ) if they aim with their clip on their OF it won't be scratchy.)

 

I find the OB to be a writing nib, if one was to compare to modern, a fat OM, in '50-65 and 82-97 are 1/2 a width narrower than modern.

 

** Hold the nib to the light, and guess is that a 15 degree or 30 degree grind.

Once a while back on the Com, lots of folks had problems with an Oblique of that era.....mostly I think because they were trying to make the nib do something.....what I don't know....but they were twisting fingers, arms and hanging from the chandeliers. Watching too many folks on YouTube maltreating their nibs...or what ever.....(Just thought many could have still been holding their fountain pen like a ball point before the big index knuckle.)

 

I come up with a trick. If 15 degrees, post the cap so the clip is aimed half way between the slit and the right edge of the nib. Grasp the pen in the air, using the clip as a guide....place on the paper and write. The nib will be canted properly. Just write. The nib will do all the work.

 

If the nib is 30 degrees, align the clip at the right hand edge of the nib, place on the paper and just write.

30 degree grind is seldom....I have a guessed OBBB maxi-semi-flex 30 degree signature pen only 500, that I am sure is factory done....in it was top of the line fancy for the time for Pelikan...or near too it. So wide it takes 2/3rds to 3/4ts a page to write a legal 10 letter signature.

 

I lucked out in no one ever mentions the 30 degree grind and have 15&30 degree grinds in OBB, OB, OM and OF. None of them are particularly fancy.

In it is never mentioned, (out side that 500....signature pen), I wonder if back in the day of the fabled German corner pen shoppe with pen technician salesmen, if the customer was asked, do you want a bit more oblique, and go into the back room and grind it from 15 degrees to 30 degrees.

 

All was not roses, some folks still had problems. Richard Binder came up with those who were still having problems and held the paper at 45 degrees to hold the paper at 90 or 180 degrees.

After that....the subject mostly died, outside my reminders.

I never had any problem with paper angle.....was glad I started with the OB 140, in if I held it straight it was fat enough that it was only a tad scratchy, so told me to cant my pen.

 

At lesser Oblique angles, OM or OF, one has to hold more precisely. I have a OM Mercedes (not the car company, but someone who once worked for MB)....don't remember right off the top of my head if it was 15 or 30 degree.....but I used the pen for the first time in ages, and it was Very Scratchy!!!!!

I was reaching for the micro-mesh, when OM....and I was holding it straight....narrower sweet spot. I canted the nib and all was good.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[EdwardSouthgate]

Bo Bo ,

 

This green set should not have much if any flex with the HF nib . If I understand correctly HF is about the same as a Manifold nib, a nail . I got two MB cartridge/ converter pens the other day that have OM and OF nibs , one is marked W, Germany on the cap band and has a moderate amount of flex . The Generations pen has a slightly arched star on the cap and the other is a flat star, neither have model numbers .The Generations pens nib is fairly stiff but is still an excellent writer (OF) . The W. Germany pen will need a new hood due to having a crack on either side of the nib (OM) and a hairline on top inline with the nib , it leaks !

 

Eddie

Edited October 22, 2018 by EdwardSouthgate

[Bo Bo Olson]

H-nib................helps to be able to read. ......I'm sure I have a ready made excuse somewhere in my hat.....ah yes, was distracted by the near NOS green in the finial......

 

I have a D nib, and it is the nail's nail....even harder than a H from my reading. Good for climbing the north face of the Eiger or cutting open battle tanks.

 

OK, you can get semi-flex nibs to screw in in place of that H nib.

Hope your tortoise is semi-flex...as it should be. Do try to be light handed with it. Hold the pen like a featherless baby bird. The nib will do all the work....so don't try to make it do anything.

 

As soon as I get down to 5-7 inked pens....my '54 transitional** 400 tortoise with a semi-flex B nib is coming out. Got ten inked in the pen cup.

(not going and don't count those in the jewelry bracelet cases....which are too good for the pen cup.) I strive to stay far, far away from Inky Thoughts or Ink Reviews.......or I ink pens.

 

 

** The 400n, made in @ 55 only, had no size mark on the piston knob, but on the nib like the 400nn that came out the next year. For a while I thought I had the 400n, in the difference between the piston knob is not 'all' that big between the 400 and 400n....but it's the standard sized 400n's cap that is longer than both the 400 and the 400nn. Makes it balance just like the medium-long 400nn.

 

Torpedo shape was so IN in the '50's, Swan, MB's 146/9, Geha, some Osmia, the 120 & 140...then came the 400nn.

So my '54 400, has the regular sized cap, marked nib. and no size marking on the piston knob....sigh, the regular sized cap. Great semi-flex B and it is tortoise.

[EdwardSouthgate]

I think after the first of the year I will try to find a set from 1958 , that should be the torpedo I think . Maybe both a green set and a tortoise set , one with an extra fine semi flex nib the other I would have stubbed . If I have those and a really nice IBIS , with what I already have , I think I will be well satisfied as far as Pelikan goes . Might one day pick up one of the new 100N Red or Green Tortoise pens in a B nib .

 

Eddie

[BillH]

I think after the first of the year I will try to find a set from 1958 , that should be the torpedo I think . Maybe both a green set and a tortoise set , one with an extra fine semi flex nib the other I would have stubbed . If I have those and a really nice IBIS , with what I already have , I think I will be well satisfied as far as Pelikan goes . Might one day pick up one of the new 100N Red or Green Tortoise pens in a B nib .

 

Eddie

 

 

Oh Eddie... do you really think you're going to get away that easily?

I used to think that... 3 years ago. Now I know better. The only solution I know is debtor's prison or kill your internet connection.

 

Seriously though, very nice pens you have so far. Good picking!

[EdwardSouthgate]

 

 

Oh Eddie... do you really think you're going to get away that easily?

I used to think that... 3 years ago. Now I know better. The only solution I know is debtor's prison or kill your internet connection.

 

Seriously though, very nice pens you have so far. Good picking!

 

 

Thanks Bill . Gonna have to be the pen , can't do without the internet .

[Bo Bo Olson]

You won't have to have it stubbed....it come stubbed and semi-flex...outside the H and D nibs.

'56 starts the 400nn, and then it will take a real expert to be able to tell the difference between a '56 and a 65 last year.

Any 400nn will do just fine.

EF can be found but are rarer than the F....the semi-vintage and vintage nibs run @ 1/2 a width narrower than modern post '97 ones..........I do have a Geha EF in maxi, but in a nib that thin, the stubbiness flair of the nib isn't as noticeable as in an F.

Of course if you have a real tiny writing go for it.

 

I have 4 '50-54 400's not counting the transition 400 and a 500 which has a rolled gold final overlay to go with the rolled gold cap.

 

There was a time when I never thought I could afford one of the then 'fabled' semi-flex 400's. But I stopped buying so many pens, and could afford to buy better. And I bought in live auctions at some 20% cheaper in it was mostly dealers, who need to make a winner.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[EdwardSouthgate]

They came in the mail today after having been LOST for the last 5 days ! Took the post office that long to get them here from the postal distribution center in Nashville , roughly 130 miles . I need a flexi fine nib and feed for this . The HF is an absolute nail . Was looking on an auction list and ran across one listedas being Flex that is marked where the size goes , ST . Any idea what this means ? I have made a post asking this but I might s well ask here also . Bo BO ??

 

Eddie

 

PS: Never mind about the ST , its Steno . I just found a reference . It is Flexi !

Edited November 1, 2018 by EdwardSouthgate

[Bo Bo Olson]

You can buy a '50's-65 semi-flex nib as a replacement for that H....Martine-somebody or another in Belgium, or Penboard de. The latter is expensive. Top of the line vintage goods.

 

Steno can be nailish or a Wet Noodle. The one in another resent thread, shows a Wet Noodle....Which I and the passed pal in England were hoping for; but it was nailish.

 

H is a nail...D is the Nails Nail!...................Not that I have an H, but do have few other Nails....and the Pelikan D makes them 'soft'.