So Tell Me, Honestly... New Vs Vintage Sheaffer...?

[pajaro]

I like the old school pens with translucent barrels. I have put converters, including the red nose squeeze converters in them, and they are trouble free. Touchdown inlaid nib imperials with caps from the 1996 Holly pens I use every day. The gold nibs, especially EFs and stubs are the most charming of their period. There was really something lost here in the nibs. Their filling systems are often interesting as well as fairly durable.

 

Generally I like the 1950s to 1990s pens from any maker more than any other pens. Then, again, I was born in 1948, and this has been my life. I don't think young people today should be expected to feel the same way about pens from those years..

[JonSzanto]

Generally I like the 1950s to 1990s pens from any maker more than any other pens. Then, again, I was born in 1948, and this has been my life. I don't think young people today should be expected to feel the same way about pens from those years..

 

You are five years older than I. Kindly explain my fascination for, and use of, pens from the 1920s - 1940s!

[pajaro]

 

You are five years older than I. Kindly explain my fascination for, and use of, pens from the 1920s - 1940s!

 

You like what you like, what appeals to your tastes. I like some of those pens as well, but just haven't happened on so many. An old Wahl, a couple of Sheaffers. I got hung up on the Parker 51 early on, and that was my focus until I joined this group. I think I might like a Wahl Doric or a Waterman Hundred Year Pen. I am going to try to keep from buying any more pens, unless I need parts.

 

It's hard to say why you like the '20s to '40s pens. Historic interest, beauty of style, the way they fit into an older lifestyle, a kinder and more polite era. Those pens reflect their time. Elegant and stylish, with the beginnings of streamlined style, style that might remind you of Tiffany lamps, beautiful pottery, flappers in pretty dresses, very cool cars, a happy and going era between the World Wars. A happy time. And the people who lived then, some of whom you might have known.

Edited October 28, 2018 by pajaro

[JonSzanto]

 

You like what you like, what appeals to your tastes. I like some of those pens as well, but just haven't happened on so many. An old Wahl, a couple of Sheaffers. I got hung up on the Parker 51 early on, and that was my focus until I joined this group. I think I might like a Wahl Doric or a Waterman Hundred Year Pen. I am going to try to keep from buying any more pens, unless I need parts.

 

It's hard to say why you like the '20s to '40s pens. Historic interest, beauty of style, the way they fit into an older lifestyle, a kinder and more polite era. Those pens reflect their time. Elegant and stylish, with the beginnings of streamlined style, style that might remind you of Tiffany lamps, beautiful pottery, flappers in pretty dresses, very cool cars, a happy and going era between the World Wars. A happy time. And the people who lived then, some of whom you might have known.

 

It was mostly a rhetorical question, wondering also about younger people, but that is a very sweet and not-far-off answer! Enjoy your pens, Pajaro.

[AL01]

Younger people?

 

I guess that would include a student, (like me).

 

I personally prefer vintage Sheaffer, (and vintage pens in general), for their performance, price, and their historic "romantization."

 

Was I alive during the 20th century?

 

No.

 

But I am a product of the '90s, (wasn't alive then), due to the fact that the era I grew up in was a rehash of the early '90s.

 

While I do enjoy modern pens, they just don't innovate like modern technology; if you really think about it, vintage pens were always attempting to innovate in some way, shape, and/or form, just like modern computers or tablets/phones, etc.

 

I hope that gives you some insight.

[penwash]

 

You like what you like, what appeals to your tastes. I like some of those pens as well, but just haven't happened on so many. An old Wahl, a couple of Sheaffers. I got hung up on the Parker 51 early on, and that was my focus until I joined this group. I think I might like a Wahl Doric or a Waterman Hundred Year Pen. I am going to try to keep from buying any more pens, unless I need parts.

 

It's hard to say why you like the '20s to '40s pens. Historic interest, beauty of style, the way they fit into an older lifestyle, a kinder and more polite era. Those pens reflect their time. Elegant and stylish, with the beginnings of streamlined style, style that might remind you of Tiffany lamps, beautiful pottery, flappers in pretty dresses, very cool cars, a happy and going era between the World Wars. A happy time. And the people who lived then, some of whom you might have known.

 

Just want to say that the second paragraph is written with elegance and eloquence. It describes accurately why vintage pens appeal to me.

[TheDutchGuy]

 

It's hard to say why you like the '20s to '40s pens. Historic interest, beauty of style, the way they fit into an older lifestyle, a kinder and more polite era. Those pens reflect their time. Elegant and stylish, with the beginnings of streamlined style, style that might remind you of Tiffany lamps, beautiful pottery, flappers in pretty dresses, very cool cars, a happy and going era between the World Wars. A happy time. And the people who lived then, some of whom you might have known.

 

 

Well said! That's inspiring.

[Corona688]

While I do enjoy modern pens, they just don't innovate like modern technology; if you really think about it, vintage pens were always attempting to innovate in some way, shape, and/or form, just like modern computers or tablets/phones, etc..

Relatively recent innovations in pens:

• Cellulose-binding permanent inks
• Rapid-drying inks that don't destroy nibs
• Economical, decent-performing feeds made of modern plastics
• Fountain feeds attached to rolling ball points (rollerballs)
• Fountain feeds attached to felt markers (liquid highlighters)
• A completely new nib - the folded ruling pen and its relative the Parker Parallel Pen

Most of these aren't "fountain pen" innovations per se, but then, it wasn't until the rise of the ballpoint that fountain pens became this stereotyped. Now days, if it doesn't have the drippy fork nib circa 1850, it's not a fountain pen.

[TheDutchGuy]

As I "progress" in this hobby, I find myself gravitating more and more towards vintage pens (though others might call it "regress"). The nibwork just seems to be better and more inspiring and the pens have a charm that you just can't buy in a store. The oldies grow on me, whereas a lot of my new pens seem to do the opposite: I adore them at first and then gradually wears off (there are notable exceptions). Old nibs allow me to write at speed and still have the text look pleasantly readable, whereas most modern nibs make it look rough and jagged. While I adore my modern Sailor nibs, the nibs in my old Sheaffer Targas and PFM-III are better. Plain and simple. The Sailors have quite a narrow sweet spot ("rotation police") whereas the Sheaffers are very forgiving and add more character to the text. It's the same with old MB 146 EF and my very old Onotos. I can see a time coming, at some point in the future, when most of my modern pens will be sold off, with a few notable exceptions.

[sciumbasci]

I believe Sheaffer does not use Bock nibs.

Current models are fine, although no redeeming qualities: they are made in China - not a and thing per se - but I find them quite pricey for what they offer.

 

Lots of wasted potential: the Sheaffer Sentinel is locked into using Sheaffer refills, and costs 2x the price of a regular Jotter (not the new, premium model). Sheaffer VFM retails at about 16EUR - it would be quite a decent beginner pen, but again, they designed it with an inner plug in the barrel, so it can only accept international short carts.

 

Don't know about The Viewpoint: looks legit to me, but if it's not a popular model there has to be a reason. Perhaps it is not a good stub pen?

[AL01]

 

Relatively recent innovations in pens:

• Cellulose-binding permanent inks
• Rapid-drying inks that don't destroy nibs
• Economical, decent-performing feeds made of modern plastics
• Fountain feeds attached to rolling ball points (rollerballs)
• Fountain feeds attached to felt markers (liquid highlighters)
• A completely new nib - the folded ruling pen and its relative the Parker Parallel Pen

Most of these aren't "fountain pen" innovations per se, but then, it wasn't until the rise of the ballpoint that fountain pens became this stereotyped. Now days, if it doesn't have the drippy fork nib circa 1850, it's not a fountain pen.

 

 

Your right.

 

I guess I am talking about the more "novel" or "groundbreaking" innovations, say the Parker 51 or the Sheaffer Snorkel.

 

Vintage pens were not just under the influence of the stationary industry, but I also think that these wonderful objects were products of architects, artisans and engineers.

 

While I must agree to your list of numerous advances in our modern day, I just don't see the same "flame of innovation" present in modern pens.

 

But maybe it's just my eccentric tastes...

 

No ill will, just my two cents.

 

 

EDIT: Fixed up grammatical issues.

Edited October 29, 2018 by AL01

[TheDutchGuy]

While I must agree to your list of numerous advances in our modern day, I just don't see the same "flame of innovation" present in modern pens.

That's a tough one.

 

On the one hand, there's a _huge_ discussion going on here on FPN titled "high end pens are a lot of trouble" or something to that extent. That's a tell-tale sign of the decline of fountain pens in terms of popularity. There's no volume anymore and the skills needed to produce good pens seem to be declining. An often-seen comment here on FPN is "almost every new pen will need some form of service or tuning". Back in the 40s, 50s and 60s a lot of people used FP's as an everyday tool, sort of like we use a smartphone now. Reputable shops were everywhere, and they were able to service pens in-house quickly, efficiently and professionally.

 

In those days, the more you paid for a pen, the better it was (in general, not counting ornamentations like gemstones or precious metals). These days, the more you pay for a pen, the more trouble you might expect.

 

On the other hand, now we have a $4 Platinum Preppy, which is an amazing pen for what it offers. Consistent, pleasant nibs. Good flow. A lot of modern engineering went into the nib and feed of that pen. Back in the day, that would not have been possible.

[JonSzanto]

On the one hand, there's a _huge_ discussion going on here on FPN titled "high end pens are a lot of trouble" or something to that extent.

 

And, frankly, a lot of that discussion is plain rubbish. Because something is discussed on an internet forum, even in high-volume, indicates nothing in particular. It is the quality of data and information in that discussion that is of import. Some expensive brands have qc issues, some don't. Some cheap pens are great, others are junk.

 

Society has changed and while there is a decided resurgence in fp popularity (documented widely), it will never, it *can* never, approach the numbers of users during the days when it was the primary means of written documentation. There will never again be as many manufacturers competing against one another, innovation being a big by-product of that competition. There are incremental advances and interesting ideas, primarily from smaller makers, but nothing to compare to something like the advent of the Parker 51, whose revolutionary design created sales in the millions of pens.

 

Those days are gone, not to come back.

[AD43]

Sheaffer, Parker and Cross etc since the 80-90s have gone

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.................................................................................................................................. downhill, quite steeply

[TheDutchGuy]

Some expensive brands have qc issues, some don't. Some cheap pens are great, others are junk.

For expensive brands, it's unacceptable. Period. I understand the challenges they face and the reasons behind them. Still, unacceptable. Buying a high-end pen is a gamble and too often there's some kind of problem. That shouldn't be the case.

 

With cheap pens, you'll probably get what you pay for. If (like the Preppy) you get an amazing deal, then rejoice, but in general one should have modest expectations of a $3 fountain pen.

[Corona688]

For expensive brands, it's unacceptable. Period. I understand the challenges they face and the reasons behind them. Still, unacceptable.

If they refuse to fix it that's one thing but -- you say you understand the issues and why it happens and still expect 100% QC from small-run handmade products. Good luck with that, but you should probably just not buy them.

[JonSzanto]

Buying a high-end pen is a gamble and too often there's some kind of problem.

 

That is not my experience. I don't believe it is the predominant experience. I think it is the experience of a small amount of people who simply love to complain. Show me verifiable data and I'll agree with you.

[TheDutchGuy]

Getting people to agree with me isn't on my bucket list . We all have our own experiences and opinions. That's why we're here - if we all felt the same and knew the same, FPN could close down. Having said that... apart from all the QC related content on FPN (content which I would not consider to be "a small amount of people who simply love to complain"): of all the new pens I've bought, about 40% had some kind of issue. These issues included baby's bottom bad enough to take the joy out of writing, pen being far too wet (unusable with most paper/ink combinations), pen being far too dry (ditto), mechanical faults (loose parts) and scratchiness above what any reasonable person would consider to be acceptable. Some of these issues I could fix, some I could not (or did not want to, considering the pen's price), sometimes I returned the pens, sometimes the manufacturer helped me out.

[pajaro]

I have had good experiences with every pen bought new and almost all the pens I bought used. I am probably just too ignorant of the finer points to recognize the problems. Parker Sonnet would be an exception. I picked up on my pen drying out, but found workarounds.

[Flaxmoore]

makes modern Skrip blue-black look complex and interesting

 

I'll have to see this to believe it. Skrip Blue and Red are two of my standbys, but BB is one of the most flat and uninteresting blue-blacks I've ever used, and I love blue-black.