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Nibs Of Flagship Pens

nibs flagship comparison

12 replies to this topic

#1 MarkHanks

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 09:11

Could someone offer a brief or comprehensive comparison of nibs that come with flagship pens from the popular premium brands? Say, Montblanc 149, Pelikan M1000, Sailor Custom Urushi etc. 



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#2 Karmachanic

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 10:22

But first please tell us what research you have done, and where. :)


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#3 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 12:37

The 149 and 1000 are Oversized pens.....real, BIG! Not where I'd go if I was getting into fountain pens................because then what???? Be a one pen man. :unsure: :( :P Everything else would be too small.....need to carry the desk down the street to use it. Can't put it in a shirt pocket and out the door.

 

 

 

OK, I have a MB Virginia Woolf, a Limited Edition, a Large pen, so would have the same category nib as a 149 but smaller in it is a Large pen and not an Oversized pen. My other MB pens don't count in they are Vintage or semi-vintage.

That Woolf pen is wide for 'marking' and MB nibs are not marked but for a pull off sticker as far as I know in modern. MB is known for a wide nib.

My B nib is a fat B=BB actually the way I see things, but I look from older era nibs and fine many of the modern nibs 'fat'.....I had heard that MB is a wide for marked nib, so bought that Woolf in M, in using cheaper paper at the B&M, it wrote the B I wanted. At home with better paper....it only wrote M. :rolleyes: I swapped nibs, in the pen was new.............I made a mistake and did not insist on middle of the tolerance and got fat end of tolerance.

 

There are many articles here on tolerance....do look up Ron Zorn's tolerance......he shows how a fat F can equal a skinny M.....exactly and still be with in tolerance. Every company has it's very own standard....so you don't make a major mistake and buy someone elses pen. Parker made a fatter nib, Sheaffer a thinner so that wouldn't happen....back in the One Man, One Pen days.

 

Two pens could come off the line right after each other, with the same width nib...and they will be different...to what side of tolerance they are. Each company makes slightly different width pens. Sailor is the Fat Japanese nib, Pilot the skinny one. So width is actually only good with in company for comparison.....that is horseshoes close............different company .... or different era, it's hand grenade near.

 

My Woolf is a "Springy nib", good tine bend, but only 2 X tine spread.

The Lamy Imporium, their top of the line has a 'better' nib....didn't check the width at their B&M, but their 'Springy' nib, had much easier tine bend............but still only 2 X tine spread.

If it had gone out to 3 X tine spread it would be a semi-flex....and I'd have one.

Still a great grand 'Springy' nib.

 

Pelikan 1000, first, it is a wetter writer....is wider than semi-vintage or vintage. It is a wetter writer in the nib and feed were designed like all Pelikans for their dry 4001 inks. (Is it a wetter writer than my Woolf, don't know...at that width of nib, it don't matter.

 

Second, the 1000 can be semi-flex...which will make it even a wetter writer. Or at least as likely a springy regular flex nib (luck of the draw) ...that either will max at 3 X tine spread if well mashed.

Semi-flex requires half the pressure to max at 3 X than does a regular flex.

The nib is fatter and blobbier than semi-vintage or vintage Pelikans...same with the 800 and 400/600s.

 

The 800 could be considered a Flagship just as well....in it is a 'different' pen, it is 'only' a Large pen, does have a nail nib...........I like the lighter more nimble MB 146 over it. Don't have a 800, don't chase nails. The 146 gets less use by me, in I favor vintage and semi-vintage standard or medium-large pens. My vintage medium-large 146 IMO has better balance than my semi-vintage Larege 146....and the Vintage pens of the 1950-70 era is a better nib.

So do look to that era if you 'must' have a 149, a much better nib....semi-flex.

 

The nibs are of course butter smooth..............something 'noobie's are in love with.....some but not all others like butter smooth.....which is often the only thing a modern nib can offer. I prefer a tad of feeling on my nibs especially if using slicker papers....but butter smooth can be roughed down to good and smooth, easy enough....once you get that far.

 

 

Go to Richard Binder's site, the bible of fountain pens; nibs, filling systems, good advice about inks, and so many :puddle: pretty vintage pens....will take you at least three days to read.

 

How many pens do you have and what are they?

 

I favor working one's way up from lower levels of cost...in one can experience more and know more before putting out a huge chunk of change on a pen you might not like.

Besides which one 'needs' one's 5-7 pens to play with inks..... :happyberet:

Don't forget Vintage pens, one can get one time Flagship pens for 1/5th or 1/4th the cost of a new flagship pen. They will be smaller, in once pens were used all day long, not just as note takers or signature pens.

Yes, what are you going to be using the pen for??? Bling in the office, scribbling like a mad man at midnight on one's journal?

 

Do look to buy the Flagship models you are interested in,  used. If you don't like them you can sell them with out much loss. Buying new and finding out you don't like it, will cost a big chuck of change in it is now a used pen.


Everyone says poor Mozart dead at only 36. None say poor Mendelson, dead at only 38. His family only allowed him to start at 20, but before, musicians use to come to the Mendelson garden to steal the music of Mendelson and his sister. A good artist also, can still buy prints of his famous Scottish drawings in Scotland.

 

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany      Info on Bock nibs

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

Pens/inks/paper on hold for a year....new addiction pocket watch chains. :happyberet:


#4 jar

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 13:10

No.


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#5 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 18:27

:lticaptd:


Everyone says poor Mozart dead at only 36. None say poor Mendelson, dead at only 38. His family only allowed him to start at 20, but before, musicians use to come to the Mendelson garden to steal the music of Mendelson and his sister. A good artist also, can still buy prints of his famous Scottish drawings in Scotland.

 

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany      Info on Bock nibs

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

Pens/inks/paper on hold for a year....new addiction pocket watch chains. :happyberet:


#6 zaddick

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 19:29

Here is brief, and my honest opinion...

 

MB #9 nib > all other similar size nibs that are not customized to your exact specifications

 

For MB #9 nibs, these are my favorite eras:

 

1930-1960 > 1960 - 1975 > 1975 - 1985 > 2014 - present > 1985 - 2014



#7 pseudo88

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 20:49

It would be easier to know what you're looking for, and whether flagship only means the most expensive model. I only have what might have been a flagship in its time, a Waterman le Man 100; it's a big, beautiful nib that writes very well, but other less expensive pens might have more interesting nibs, I have mostly lower and mid range pens, my Sailor Professional Gear 21k and Pelikan m600 18k have more interesting nibs.

 

Now tht I think about it maybe the Parker 75 was also the flagship of its time? If so, that makes two, and it's a really nice nib too, even if nowhere near as elaborate or big.


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#8 MarkHanks

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 09:26

But first please tell us what research you have done, and where. :)

 

:) Cute. I am one of those who only have questions, no answers. I only read dozens of reviews of all flagships and inspected writing samples online. No experience with any, though. I have a feeling you have a lot of insight that you can share with me on this topic. Please do.



#9 MarkHanks

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 09:33

The 149 and 1000 are Oversized pens.....real, BIG! Not where I'd go if I was getting into fountain pens................because then what???? Be a one pen man. :unsure: :( :P Everything else would be too small.....need to carry the desk down the street to use it. Can't put it in a shirt pocket and out the door.

 

 

 

OK, I have a MB Virginia Woolf, a Limited Edition, a Large pen, so would have the same category nib as a 149 but smaller in it is a Large pen and not an Oversized pen. My other MB pens don't count in they are Vintage or semi-vintage.

That Woolf pen is wide for 'marking' and MB nibs are not marked but for a pull off sticker as far as I know in modern. MB is known for a wide nib.

My B nib is a fat B=BB actually the way I see things, but I look from older era nibs and fine many of the modern nibs 'fat'.....I had heard that MB is a wide for marked nib, so bought that Woolf in M, in using cheaper paper at the B&M, it wrote the B I wanted. At home with better paper....it only wrote M. :rolleyes: I swapped nibs, in the pen was new.............I made a mistake and did not insist on middle of the tolerance and got fat end of tolerance.

 

There are many articles here on tolerance....do look up Ron Zorn's tolerance......he shows how a fat F can equal a skinny M.....exactly and still be with in tolerance. Every company has it's very own standard....so you don't make a major mistake and buy someone elses pen. Parker made a fatter nib, Sheaffer a thinner so that wouldn't happen....back in the One Man, One Pen days.

 

Two pens could come off the line right after each other, with the same width nib...and they will be different...to what side of tolerance they are. Each company makes slightly different width pens. Sailor is the Fat Japanese nib, Pilot the skinny one. So width is actually only good with in company for comparison.....that is horseshoes close............different company .... or different era, it's hand grenade near.

 

My Woolf is a "Springy nib", good tine bend, but only 2 X tine spread.

The Lamy Imporium, their top of the line has a 'better' nib....didn't check the width at their B&M, but their 'Springy' nib, had much easier tine bend............but still only 2 X tine spread.

If it had gone out to 3 X tine spread it would be a semi-flex....and I'd have one.

Still a great grand 'Springy' nib.

 

Pelikan 1000, first, it is a wetter writer....is wider than semi-vintage or vintage. It is a wetter writer in the nib and feed were designed like all Pelikans for their dry 4001 inks. (Is it a wetter writer than my Woolf, don't know...at that width of nib, it don't matter.

 

Second, the 1000 can be semi-flex...which will make it even a wetter writer. Or at least as likely a springy regular flex nib (luck of the draw) ...that either will max at 3 X tine spread if well mashed.

Semi-flex requires half the pressure to max at 3 X than does a regular flex.

The nib is fatter and blobbier than semi-vintage or vintage Pelikans...same with the 800 and 400/600s.

 

The 800 could be considered a Flagship just as well....in it is a 'different' pen, it is 'only' a Large pen, does have a nail nib...........I like the lighter more nimble MB 146 over it. Don't have a 800, don't chase nails. The 146 gets less use by me, in I favor vintage and semi-vintage standard or medium-large pens. My vintage medium-large 146 IMO has better balance than my semi-vintage Larege 146....and the Vintage pens of the 1950-70 era is a better nib.

So do look to that era if you 'must' have a 149, a much better nib....semi-flex.

 

The nibs are of course butter smooth..............something 'noobie's are in love with.....some but not all others like butter smooth.....which is often the only thing a modern nib can offer. I prefer a tad of feeling on my nibs especially if using slicker papers....but butter smooth can be roughed down to good and smooth, easy enough....once you get that far.

 

 

Go to Richard Binder's site, the bible of fountain pens; nibs, filling systems, good advice about inks, and so many :puddle: pretty vintage pens....will take you at least three days to read.

 

How many pens do you have and what are they?

 

I favor working one's way up from lower levels of cost...in one can experience more and know more before putting out a huge chunk of change on a pen you might not like.

Besides which one 'needs' one's 5-7 pens to play with inks..... :happyberet:

Don't forget Vintage pens, one can get one time Flagship pens for 1/5th or 1/4th the cost of a new flagship pen. They will be smaller, in once pens were used all day long, not just as note takers or signature pens.

Yes, what are you going to be using the pen for??? Bling in the office, scribbling like a mad man at midnight on one's journal?

 

Do look to buy the Flagship models you are interested in,  used. If you don't like them you can sell them with out much loss. Buying new and finding out you don't like it, will cost a big chuck of change in it is now a used pen.

 

 

 

 

Very very helpful, sir/madam. Thank you. Well said about considering a flagship used at 1/5th price. I started looking around. 

 

So far I have used only Montblac 144 Classique Jungle Eyes (I find it's M nib too broad to my taste) and Pelikan M200 (a wee bit thin and no flex at all) and dozens of cheap pens from India and China of which I absolutely loved Sheaffer No Nonsense in M and Waterman Philea and Hero 329 and a few Camlins with F nibs ground to M using the bottom surface of my glass paper weight and some Jinhaos that accidentally come with great F nibs sometimes. I write often and have used only fountain pens all my life. I write in cursive and most writing these days is in the form of letters and occasional scripts. Do let me know, if you have more advice to share.

 

 



#10 MarkHanks

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 09:36

Here is brief, and my honest opinion...

 

MB #9 nib > all other similar size nibs that are not customized to your exact specifications

 

For MB #9 nibs, these are my favorite eras:

 

1930-1960 > 1960 - 1975 > 1975 - 1985 > 2014 - present > 1985 - 2014

 

 

Thank you. I do find MB's #9 wide nib very promising. Doing to a test in a couple of days at a store. I shall avoid 1985-2014 models in the used market as advised.



#11 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 09:40

Of course a P-75 was ... in '70-71 it cost $22 real silver dollars when the Snorkel cost @$14.

The MP/BP little brother cost me $18.

When I was a 20 pen 'noobie' I looked for the best balanced pens I had.

Each of the top 3 were different in girth, and size...all posted of course IMO, standard or medium-large pens only have good balance posted...and are longer than un-posted Large pens. The light for silver P-75 was one of the three best.

 

Right after payday, I had gone into the BX...Air Force PX, to buy the very expensive high status, Cross thin mat black and gold ball point for a whopping $8.00.....a common Jotter $3.75.

I walked around the pen counter, and drooled all over a Black & Gold Snorkel.....reminding my self, I'd promised myself a P-51 or Snorkel, King of Pens, as soon as I became an adult and had a job....(Nope back then when the Dollar was Almighty, MB&Pelikan were foreign junk, like a small Mercedes and smaller BMW..... :D  Times change....slow down to a crawl traffic signs where there is a Corner in the US are not for those German cars. Stoplights were the most important thing about US cars back then....who could get to it first. And underpowered German cars were so underpowered might have well been racing a diesel. )

I was out in the back roads of Virginia about a decade ago, and the slow down sign said 25mph :lticaptd: , for the same corner in Germany would have been 45mph, or 70kmh. 

 

I was mugged by the P-75 Brothers. I was then a one pen man, as was normal back in the day. Was that until about a decade ago, when inherited pens forced me to collect fountain pens like a mad man.

The BP/MP...Parker had a MP cartridge that went into the ball point, though it was sold as a MP when I bought both.

That $18 sterling silver ball point made me forget the Cross in a hell of a hurry.

For a MP I do recommend a Pelikan 450....but not the ball point 455....which is common '50's junk, the Jotter is much better. But the MP Jotter is not in the same balance and love to use class.

 

I'd the 450 MP out for some reason, and decided to try it for the first time some 5-7 years after winning it as part of a lot at a live auction........ :yikes:For the next six weeks until it ran out of lead, I didn't touch a fountain pen!!!!!!

Nope, the P-75 BP/MP never beat my drum. :(

 

 

The 200 is a nice springy regular flex nibbed pen. Well balanced posted.

In Pelikan the '50-65 140/400/400nn are semi-flex and stubbed nibs. The Obliques are great....but IMO unless one is left handed the only ones to buy. If one is left handed nails or semi-nails might do, depending on how one holds the pen.

 

(I don't favor the fat and blobby 1/2 a width wider than semi-vintage/vintage modern 400-600-800 or 1000 nibs. They are of course butter smooth, but the older pens write with a cleaner line. IMO good nibs to stub or make CI.)

 

I am glad Mark, that you are experienced.......more experienced than me it appears. Flagship nibs is an often 'noobie' question.

I grew up in the standard & medium-large era so do not find a posted 200 to be small.

 

 

If someone was to say, I want only one Pelikan and one only....A Pelikan 400nn, is a standard width medium-long pen, that holds for some odd reason lots more ink than any pen of it's era. It will be semi-flex or perhaps depending on luck a maxi-semi-flex. Those nibs are stubs, and either semi or maxi, give wonderful natural do nothing flair........the semi is not what I would consider a pen for fancy script.......If one was to run into a maxi, it could give fancy easier...............those are not the so called 'flex' pens/ superflex to be correct with terminology.

The Obliques great.

After a two year balance war, the 400nn, beat the 400.

 

If you wish a pen with more girth that is light and nimble, any one of  the very many pretty 600's will do just fine. It is a medium-large, light and nimble pen....that one can better the fat and blobby semi-nail nib, with a semi-flex from the '50-65 era. I had a :puddle: '50's B on it. I had got in BB because I was eventually going to make it a stub or CI.........eventually I had it stubbed to 1.0 or a B. 

A Stub or Cursive Italic is 100% line variation always. Semi-flex is line variation On Demand.

 

A good thing about the 200 is one can get steel screw in nibs for it cheap. There is a place in England that sells gold plated nibs for not much more....everywhere else is too expensive. Seeing I have a slew of 400's I don't need that. One can run the great stubbed vintage semi-flex nibs in it just like the 400/600.

 

Regular flex, was once the issue on many new pens, way back when. Sheaffer had some, also had nails and in the early '50's a rare semi-flex, Esterbrook, Wearever had regular flex pens. Parker not in they went nail in the mid to late 30's according to my reading.

 

The German Pelikan 120 and Geha school pens are regular flex. The Geha school pen is the best buy for regular flex....but almost all are FK....meaning it has the American Bump Under, than the stub of the era. The Pelikan 120 has half of that American Bump, being a bit more stubbish than the Geha.

 

If you Hunt on German Ebay....first the seller has to take pay pal, and many don't, being too cheap, and mail to the States, some won't. Some won't mail out of Germany....others believe in Global Warming.

Best Buy.....assuming you don't push the 'Buy Now Idiot' button, The Geha school pen, from E-12 to E19.....wouldn't pay a penny more. Of course you can buy one for only $89.00 from a German Pirate on US Ebay.

Best Buy in semi-flex...and it's nib is a slight tad better is a Geha 790, for with luck E-40 more than likely @ E60 now.....

.....A Pelikan 140 costs E90 (was E50 when the Geha was E25) and a 400/400nn from E100-120.....to pay more is foolish. A German buy now price is very close to the well over priced US prices.

 

I do take complete responsibility for the now high price of the Geha 790, in I've been preaching buy one for the last decade. Got mine for E15, 19 and one for :yikes: E30. The torpedo shape was very IN, in the '50's, the MB 146/9, Pelikan 140/400nn, Geha 790/760, some Osmia pens and do on. The Geha 790/760 have three rings at the final, cap end. The school pen just the clip ring. School pen has serial numbers, in there were pen collectors even then.(The 760 is medium small that was also in, the Pelikan 140, some Osmia and the Dia. If the 760 which is often color boddied, slightly different stripe pattern than the 400, If it has a gold stripe at the piston knob, it was then the Geha flagship....I of course have one with out the gold ring, from when it wasn't. I do have the next flagship the 725.

 

A 1959, whose 3 rings polished up well. When I buy a pen, I get the picture.

oWb4qI2.jpg

 

'60-70 790....

WotaRYp.jpg

 

xxxxxxxxxxx

How ever I do like the nice springy regular flex nibs of a 200, have 3 & a slightly heavier brass bodied 215. Rave about those nibs, in they may well be the last regular flex nibs made............no one with Japanese nibs can define to my satisfaction or hasn't were I read it....is the so called soft Japanese nib, regular flex....or just a soft mushy nib?

 

Most folks have no idea about regular flex, but they are young, growing up in the nail, semi-nail era. Esterbrook made one, one would have to look in the Sheaffer sub-section to find out which is regular flex.....there is a Sheaffer sub brand, that made a wonderful Carmine colored pen, that has one.

 

(English made Parker...had to have more flexible nibs than in the States in it was chasing Swan, which had a large flex assortment. I have an English P-45 in regular flex....don't have but think the US ones were nail or semi-nail. I have an Australian made Sheaffer Snorkel in maxi-semi-flex. So I stopped drooling over the Saratogas, Presidents and Admiral flagships of the Snorkels...the Imperials are very fancy Snorkels also.  Can't chase all the pens I'd like, my wallet has me in court for Wallet Abuse.

 

If one goes after two toned shading inks....one needs 90g laser paper and a nib with medium wettness like any regular flex & of course dryer Shading Inks; there are a great many.

The ink has to sit on top of the paper for a second. Regular flex had a slight tad of 'flex' so the top of a letter may be wider, or where every one puts a bit more pressure on a letter, a bit more ink is left sitting on top of the paper, giving the two tones of ink.

 

Semi-flex is because of ease of tine spread and bend, is a wet nib. A wet nib will swallow  shading......unless matched well with ink and paper....

..........And a M in regular flex, is a real good nib for shading as is the F.

:rolleyes: :blush: Looks like I got to buy a B 200 nib. :)  In most folks come in with an M, and then go narrow or wide, the M gets nothing but Rodney Dangerfield respect. It is a very good width, smooth, and not 'wide'. 

My latest 200, with an EF nib for editing, and is prettier in real life. The brown marbled one.

DSPqv6F.jpg


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 13 October 2018 - 10:54.

Everyone says poor Mozart dead at only 36. None say poor Mendelson, dead at only 38. His family only allowed him to start at 20, but before, musicians use to come to the Mendelson garden to steal the music of Mendelson and his sister. A good artist also, can still buy prints of his famous Scottish drawings in Scotland.

 

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany      Info on Bock nibs

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

Pens/inks/paper on hold for a year....new addiction pocket watch chains. :happyberet:


#12 Jaywalker

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 13:24

Of course a P-75 was ... in '70-71 it cost $22 real silver dollars when the Snorkel cost @$14.

The MP/BP little brother cost me $18.

What is "MP," please?


Edited by Jaywalker, 16 October 2018 - 13:53.


#13 artart

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 15:11

What is "MP," please?

Mechanical Pencil





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