My First Pelikan

[EdwardSouthgate]

Got this set coming from Germany . The seller says the box is from the 80's an the pen and pencil ( 400 / 450 ) are from the 1950's . Does this seem correct ? Nib is an OB. Looks good , hoping for some flex . Being my first Pelikan but not my first piston filler is there any advice I should be aware of specific to Pelikan ? I usually use Quink or Mont Blanc or some ancient Scrip in Ruby and Emerald , anything new you would suggest ? I like the look of an orange on yellow legal pads but have not used an orange n a Fountain Pen , any suggestions ? All input is appreciated .

 

Eddie

PS : I got the set for less than $240 , last set I bid on went over $400 so I think I did alright .

[inkstainedruth]

Nice pens -- my first bird was an M400 Brown Tortoise from the 1990s.

Here's a couple of places where you might find info on the actual dates for the set: https://thepelikansperch.com/database/dating-a-pelikan/

https://www.pelikan-collectibles.com/en/Pelikan/index.html

(the first being from FPN's own Sargetalon).

I had questions about an M200 someone gave me a couple of years ago, because it had a company logo on it. I contacted someone at Pelikan and was told that the style of cap imprint changes slightly about every seven years or so. That being said, the fins on the feed definitely looks like that on my 400 (which is also an OB, but the standard striated green).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[airmechqa]

Welcome to the Pelikan flock!!! That is a good looking set. I have a M400/K400 set inbound! Be careful as these birds are prolific breeders!!!

 

 

Tom

[EdwardSouthgate]

Looks like the example attributed to 1950- 1956 . Going by the cap style and trim as well as the blind cap . Feed also looks like the example the first link gives as the older style vulcanite feed . Supposed to be in excellent functioning condition . Thanks for the links Ruth , much appreciated .

 

 

Thanks for the welcome Tom .

 

Eddie

[sargetalon]

Congrats. Looks good and all the parts seem to be original. Maybe circa 1954. Great pens. Enjoy it.

[EdwardSouthgate]

Congrats. Looks good and all the parts seem to be original. Maybe circa 1954. Great pens. Enjoy it.

 

 

Thanks , was kinda hoping to hear this . If I can pick your brain a tad more , what do you think of the Ibis ? Looking at one that seems very clean and has an EF nib .

 

Eddie

[sargetalon]

 

 

Thanks , was kinda hoping to hear this . If I can pick your brain a tad more , what do you think of the Ibis ? Looking at one that seems very clean and has an EF nib .

 

Eddie

Love the Ibis. One of my fav vintage Pelikans. Up there with the 140 and 400NN. I like the look and they are great writers.

[Runnin_Ute]

Very nice set. Not much more than I just paid for a brand new M400 White Tortoise. Plus it's a more interesting nib (I ordered a It's currently in Customs in LA....

[Charles Rice]

Very nice. It won't be your last Pelikan

[EdwardSouthgate]

Very nice. It won't be your last Pelikan

 

 

Thanks . You are right , I'm already looking at another one , or two !

[Bo Bo Olson]

Semi-flex and an OB is the proper nib to have when starting out with obliques, in it has a wide sweet spot.***

In it's vintage (&Semi-vintage) is 1/2 a width narrower than modern so is like a wide OM of today. The nib is a stub, and semi-flex.

And a Tortoise. Looks like mine to be a slight lighter shade than the '82- on tortoises.

'50-54, the nib marking size on the piston knob....'55 with the 400n was (along with the '54 transitional that I have also, was when nib width markings came in.)

Your mechanical pencel is a 350?

I have a green stripped 450; and it has great balance for an MP. I had always back in the day hated MP but I'd just had Jotters.

By accident, in for some reason it was out, I tried it. For the next six weeks until the lead was out, I wrote only with it.

Did take some fiddling to find out how to reload it.

 

 

*** There use to be many threads of how to use an oblique, They were not canting the nib....'rotating' it, or holding it crooked.

I came up with a trick.

First hold the nib to the light to see if the grind is @ 15 degrees or 30 degrees.

If 15 degrees, align the clip so it aims half way between the slit and the right side shoulder, in the middle. Grasp the pen in the air. Then just put it down and the nib will be canted properly for writing. Then just write.

If 30 degrees, align the clip with the right edge of the nib, repeat the above. And you are good to go.

I have some 16 obliques and they are all either 15 or 30 degree grinds, no 22.

 

In spite of this trick, there were a few who by the way they held their pens or something, that still had problems. Richard Binder came up with holding the paper at 90 or 180 degrees, instead of the normal 45 degrees.

That cured the rest.............though I nor most never had any problem writing on paper laying on the desk at 45.

After That there were very few how come my oblique don't work threads.

 

You do have the right oblique.....IMO if you want real line variation, only the Germany '50-70 era stubbed semi-flex deliver.

 

Most left handers are left eye dominant and so are enough right handers, back in the late '50-early '60's there were always someone in a class who held his pen crooked............canted. So they could see the top of the nib. My wife is such.

I've had a couple nail obliques, that gave 0 line variation.

 

I've trans-mailed regular flex 200's oblique to a passed pal in England, and even got a W.Germany 200's oblique with the slight tad springier nib....no cigar. Not enough line variation to really notice. Minimal...look hard to find.

 

I've two Pelikan OBB's, one on a pre'97 small 600 and on a 1000. Both of them are regular flex.......................the 1000 can be semi-flex or regular flex.

I would if one was lucky think a 1000 semi-flex in oblique would work....but one has to have the luck to get one of those and not a regular flex.

So you have a grand oblique like all the German pens of that era that are semi-flex and are stubbs also.

Because of the width of the nibs, OBB's there is 'some' line variation. But no where near what my Vintage Obliques deliver.

I'd not waste any money on any other oblique than the '50-70 era..............luckily I have a slew...16. :D

 

Fear of Vintage, keeps many from true enjoyment. They buy new, and have a ghost instead of the real thing.

 

In there seems to be no information of the companies making a 30 degree grind, I often wonder if back in the day of the fabled German corner pen shop with trained personnel, if the pen technician-salesman, would ask, do you want a bit more pattern on your oblique. If yes, then he'd go on the back room and grind more.

Of my 16 Obliques of that era, I have one OBBB, on a 500; a tortoise with a rolled gold cap and piston knob, that is a 30 degree maxi-semi-flex.

I have in OBB, OB, OM and OF both 15&30 degree grinds. They are a mix of semi&maxi.

 

Maxi-semi-flex happens @ 1 in 5 times, is my WOG, outside Osmia which the Osmia + small diamond...mostly with a nib size number in it, is semi-flex. Osmia with a Large Diamond and Supra or just Supra is a maxi-semi-flex.

 

I have a 400nn OF in maxi-semi-flex and an Ibis.

A 100n in first stage of superflex, Easy Full Flex.

 

 

The regular flex, semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex are in a 3 X tines spread set.....Do Not try to spread the tines more than that. Richard Binder has a very good article on nib metal fatigue. I call it 'how to spring your nib.'

If you haven't spent the three days reading his site, you should. It is the bible of fountain pens, nibs, filling systems, good advice on inks and ever so many pretty pretty pens.

 

How to tell if one has a maxi.

First one needs a Pelikan 120 or 200 or an Esterbrook/Wearever or one of the vintage Sheaffer's in regular flex as a base nib. (Most companies out side of Parker back in vintage days made a regular flex nib....as regular issue...so are called regular flex.) In the early-mid '50's Sheaffer had regular flex, nails and their rare semi-flex.

 

One mashes a regular flex nib so the tines spread 3 X a light down stroke. One can not write so mashed. It is just to see how much pressure is needed to spread the tines from a light down stroke to 3 X....that set's max.

 

Semi-flex takes half that pressure.That is why it is a wet writer, ease of tine bend and spread.

Maxi-semi-flex takes half of that or 1/4th the pressure needed to mash a regular flex to 3X.

 

I don't know how light your hand is nor how much experience you have.

 

I had enough experienced....but was Ham Fisted from 40 years plowing the back 40 with out the mule....use of a ball point.

Even after a year back I was still Ham Fisted.

My first semi-flex was a Pelikan 140..........I'd read about them here, and at a flea market found one. The second I pressed the nib to my thumbnail, I knew what all the fuss was about.

 

It took me some 3 months to go from Ham Fisted, always maxing nib to being slightly Ham Fisted, sometimes maxing, or pressing a bit hard, so I was at 2X often.....the aim is to be light Handed, so any line variation comes from natural more pressure on this or that part of a letter, instead of always being fat.

 

Then being in Germany, started chasing semi-flex like a madman.

 

Stub and CI is 100% always line variation, stubbed semi-flex is Line Variation on Demand..

When your Hand is lighter if you want a bit of line variation you just press a tad harder....it gets so one don't really have to even think about it....some letters or parts of letters just come out fatter....then the line gets skinner as one goes to the next letter.

 

Plain semi-flex is a nib that adds flair to ones writing with out doing anything at all. No twisting of fingers, or arm, nor hanging on a chandelier.

Semi-flex is not really a nib for fancy writing (too much work), one can copy a few descenders out of a calligraphy book, to use at the end of a paragraph. Even with out that, it will give you that old fashioned fountain pen flair.

Maxi does fancy better...in it's flexier.

 

Oblique adds fancy, with out having to do anything but write. You get stub, semi-flex and grind angle working to give you a nice pattern of line variation....and when you want a tad more, just press a bit more...............that is for when your Hand is lighter, and you want to emprise a letter or two even more than the natural flair you are getting.

 

 

Pelikan has always made a dry ink, that they matched their feed and nibs to, so Pelikan pens have always been wet writers. (Like the the wet Waterman ink, used a narrower nib to get it even.***) Both met in the middle.

 

Add that semi-flex is naturally a wet writer......if you use a wet ink, it could be too much of a good thing.

If you use common copy paper, you lose the crisp clean line vintage and semi-vintage Pelikans give you.

For scribbling fun at home, get some 90g/24 pound laser only paper. Of course you don't feed a printer with that.

 

Writing is 1/3 nib width&flex, 1/3 paper, 1/3 ink and in that order.

 

 

***Many Noodler users consider Waterman a dry ink ........or at least the Noodler inks that don't shade...............so some Noodlers could really flood the hell out of your semi-flex OB.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[Aurora60]

My first Pelikan was an 805 in blue . I bought a triple set from Brian Toynton at Penamie.

The M nib is perfect ....wet but not too wet. I find the section slightly wide which makes it uncomfortable for long writing sessions. I bought a 400 which feels OK in hand but I don’t like my pens that light.

I’m a woman with medium hands but short fingers. I’m wondering about the 600s the width of the section..the weight..the balance. Also the M101N......does anyone have one and what do you think of it

[torstar]

[jealous]

[mana]

Very nice! Pelikan 400 Tortoise are among my favorite pens (have one in my EDC set).

[Bo Bo Olson]

Get a 600, it has a girth between, the 800 and 400, is light, nimble like the 400, but being medium-large is a bit more stable.

That is posted of course, just like you should post your 400. Personally I could not use a non-posted 400, and I do find a non-posted 600 too short.

If you worry about mars, wax your pens.

 

Large pens like the 800 which I don't have or the 1000 I do have...posting make the pen too tail heavy. That is not a problem with the 600...................and there are so, so many beautiful 600's, and they are just as good used.......and even more pretty pens. I'd really like a 600 Grand Place.....so does many, many others...the price never came down.

 

I do have two 600's but one's a short one that is 400 size. I'd have more but they cost too much on the used market.

I do have enough semi-flex nibs to stock my 605, and to stock more,

Before having my 605 BB stubbed I had a '50-54 stubbed semi-flex B on it.

[Aurora60]

Thanks ! That was really helpful.

[Bo Bo Olson]

To share the fun, experience must be given, so the fun is affordable.

 

I have a wonderful semi-flex B on my '54 transitional Pelikan 400.

The 400n, which has two differences from the 400, a slightly rounder piston knob; that one really has to look at hard to see any difference, and a longer cap, which makes it easier to see it is a 400n (when measured). Both the 400&400n are standards sized. The 400n, had moved to putting the nib width on the nib itself instead of the piston knob.

 

But the longer cap, is the key to the 400n. I don't have one, but the 400nn is medium long, with the same size cap as the 400. That longer cap extends the pens length so I would guess the 400n & 400nn are very close to the same length posted. Having the same balance.

 

The then IN, medium short pens, like the Pelikan 140, Geha 760 and Kawico Dia, all had longer caps, that made them standard sized when posted. That is from where I made my assumption the longer cap of a standard 400n, would = the medium-long 400nn, when posted.

 

It took me some two years of pondering to finally give the 400nn the winner in balance war between the 400 and the 400NN. Got to be real AR/OCD to worry much about that slight hair of difference.

 

I'd not worry about the 400n, in it was made for only a year, so is scarce, and you get nothing more out of it than you'd get out of a 400nn.

 

My 500 tortoise ('51?-54) is at a guessed OBBB (no way to put the nib size on the rolled gold piston cap& I do have other makers OBB's.), with its more flexible maxi-semi-flex and 30 degree grind nib, is a pure signature pen.....unusable for normal writing. A legal signature can take up 2/3rds to 3/4ths a page, with that nib. Very pretty pen....good thing I have other thinner semi-flex nibs of that era. The lighter tortoise matches my 400 transitional.

 

What surprised me was, when I put that rolled gold 500's cap, on a darker '90's tortoise, the gold cap made the darker tortoise look dull..........where the gold cap sparkles up the slightly lighter tortoise on either the 400 or the 500, with its rolled gold piston knob.

I also have in green stripe, a 140, and four other vintage green stripped 400's............... one with the nail's nail infamous D nib. Something to drive into cliffs when climbing the north face of the Eiger or opening up main battle tanks.

 

I'd been so happy got two of the 400's in the same live auction lot or real soon after. One was an OM....the other an OB..............but someone had swapped nibs.....both are OM's. ....Luckily I hadn't 'needed' that OB in I had others and from other makers also. But that is a problem with the '50-54 or anyone else's piston knob marked pen. Someone could have swapped nibs.

 

That happened to me on an early Geha 790, that I'd bought as an OEF, but it was only an EF.....how ever it was a maxi, so I was happy with that.......................later thinking, OEF is really a bit too narrow for the oblique pattern...........sour grapes??? Or better thinking...from my view point, in I'm not into real narrow nibs.

[EdwardSouthgate]

Thanks for the info Bo Bo . The set is processing through New York today so maybe I will have it in hand before the week is out .

[EdwardSouthgate]

Got this coming to me from Bulgaria to replace the plastic box , $55 shipped .

 

Eddie

 

PS : Is anyone besides me having trouble with the board the last two days ? Almost can't post and every time I click to change pages it says " Timed out " but continues searching and eventually changes to the next page . Not having trouble anywhere else and this is the first time I've had any here .

[BillH]

Yes, the board is very wonky the past few days. Seems a little better this morning... hope it continues to improve.