Jump to content

The Fountain Pen Network uses (functional) cookies. Read the FPN Privacy Policy for more info.  To remove this message, please click here to accept the use of cookies






Photo

M1000 Ef Nib: Wetness And Line Variation

m1000 wetness line variation flex soft springiness

  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 uilleann

uilleann

    NOS (New Old Stock)

  • FPN Supporter - Rhodium

  • PipPip
  • 23 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 07 October 2018 - 05:20

I am considering getting a Pelikan M1000. I was looking for advice on the FB FPN and there were comments about how wet the pen and how it was not meant to do much line variation.

So........

How wet is it? If too wet can that be fixed with different ink or other.

How much line variation can you safely get?

Edited by uilleann, 07 October 2018 - 05:20.


Sponsored Content

#2 Bo Bo Olson

Bo Bo Olson

    Ancient Artifact

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,581 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted 08 October 2018 - 19:00

Are you use to Japanese F (Euro EF) or are you use to Japanese EF (Euro XXF).........then anything western will always be too fat.

If you like Japanese F then Euro EF will be OK.

Bear in mind modern Pelikans, out side the 200 are 1/2 a width wider than vintage and semi-vintage Pelikans.

 

First, the 1000 comes with either a springy regular flex nib, the one I now have, or a semi-flex nib, the one I tested at a B&M years ago with a good semi-flex nibbed pen to make sure I was matching semi-flex to semi-flex.

 

For a long time having tested one as semi-flex couldn't understand folks calling it springy....well they were right....we were both right.

In many really don't know what regular flex or semi-flex are...I don't know if a poll would help to what the majority of the 1000's have.

 

 

If you are use to nail or semi-nail, .... and are a bit heavy handed, regular flex (can be mashed out to 3X vs a light down stroke) will be often sitting at 2x, so will be wetter than your nail or semi-nail.

 

In modern pens, a 200 is a nice springy regular flex nib. There as far as I know few regular flex nibbed pens made any more.

Semi-flex is '50-65, for Pelikan.....of course they made semi-flex and superflex nibs in the '30-40's. But they tend to be more expensive and not 'mainline' writing items like the '50-60's era. Some 1000's are semi-flex, others regular flex.

 

(Regular flex, semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex belong to a 3 X max flex set.) There are some that come from nails and semi-nails that think regular flex is semi-flex because the tines bend :o  and spread. :yikes:...nope....not quite.

 

If it is semi-flex, which will go to 3X a light down stroke at half the pressure needed to mash a regular flex. to 3 X.............

So you will often be in the 2 X, occasionally 3 X tine spread area.....= wide wet nib.

 

 

#1, develop a light hand.....if using the tripod, and are ham fisted, it will take you 6mo-1year to get a light hand if you work at it.**

 

Pelikan makes a wetter nib and feed in it makes just about the driest ink around, the 4001 inks. It was so made so the nib/feed/ink meet in the middle.

Waterman who makes a wet ink, used a narrow nib for width to meet in the middle.

 

Good to better paper makes a nib write narrower.  Slick papers like Rhodia 80/90g or Clairefontian Triomphe 90g are some of the slickest papers, so will write narrower.

 

The wetter the ink you use, the wider the pen will write. The poorer paper the same.

 

 

 

**Forefinger up will give you an automatic light grip in the three minutes it takes to learn it.

Help! How Do You Hold Your Fountain Pen?

 

I like shading inks, but think an EF mostly too narrow to show it.....how ever the 1000 is a modern Pelikan and is wider than semi-vintage and vintage by 1/2 a width. My 1005 OBB is 1/2 a width wider than my pre'97 600 OBB.

So your EF will be more an F-EF from the way I measure things, having mostly semi-vintage and vintage Pelikans. (Or a skinny F)

 

If your 1000 is regular flex, you could give shading inks a try. I find regular flex M&F to be good widths for shading inks.

 

If it is semi-flex, that takes a much better match of ink and paper for the wetter semi-flex to shade well.................better slick paper is then a must, along with a shading ink.............which are mostly dryer inks, in to shade in two tones the ink has to sit little bit on top of the paper..................so common copy paper is out. 


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 08 October 2018 - 19:15.

Everyone says poor Mozart dead at only 36. None say poor Mendelson, dead at only 38. His family only allowed him to start at 20, but before, musicians use to come to the Mendelson garden to steal the music of Mendelson and his sister. A good artist also, can still buy prints of his famous Scottish drawings in Scotland.

 

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany      Info on Bock nibs

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

Pens/inks/paper on hold for a year....new addiction pocket watch chains. :happyberet:


#3 BaronWulfraed

BaronWulfraed

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 248 posts
  • Location:Lowell, MI
  • Flag:

Posted 08 October 2018 - 19:51


If it is semi-flex, which will go to 3X a light down stroke at half the pressure needed to mash a regular flex. to 3 X.............

So you will often be in the 2 X, occasionally 3 X tine spread area.....= wide wet nib.

 

For some reason, your terminology always confuses me...

 

To me "semi-flex" means HALF FLEX -- ie; a nib that only flexes half as much as a "full" flex nib when given equal pressure. Not a nib that flexes MORE for a given amount of pressure.

 

semi-annual => half year

semi-truck => half truck (aka, tractor & trailer rig)

 

Your usage is something I'd call a maxi-flex or extra-flex...



#4 Lloyd

Lloyd

    Can a nib be smoothed by psychokinesis?

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,076 posts
  • Location:Trapped inside of a snowglobe that is resting upon a mantel in a home in Massachusetts

Posted 08 October 2018 - 20:12

Can I get a semi-hemi-demi flex nib?


"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination."
Oscar Wilde

#5 sirgilbert357

sirgilbert357

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,851 posts
  • Location:Texas
  • Flag:

Posted 08 October 2018 - 23:29

I personally find all the terminology a bit less than helpful too.

But if you say: "It goes from Euro XF to BBB", then I'm with you.

#6 sargetalon

sargetalon

    The answer to life, the universe, and everything

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,874 posts
  • Location:Philadelphia, PA
  • Flag:

Posted 09 October 2018 - 01:07

The M1000 can be very wet.  A lot depends on the ink used.  These nibs are certainly springy but nothing that I would call flex.  I don't have an EF handy buy my M1000 F nib puts down a line that is about 0.3-0.4mm with a light touch and maybe 0.7mm when slight pressure is applied.

 

fpn_1539047183__img_4966.jpg


PELIKAN - Too many birds in the flock to count.  My pen chest has proven to be a most fertile breeding ground.

fpn_1508261203__fpn_logo_300x150.jpg

THE PELIKAN'S PERCH - A growing reference site for all things Pelikan


#7 Mew

Mew

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,050 posts
  • Location:Kyoto/Tokyo, Japan

Posted 10 October 2018 - 04:04

 
For some reason, your terminology always confuses me...
 
To me "semi-flex" means HALF FLEX -- ie; a nib that only flexes half as much as a "full" flex nib when given equal pressure. Not a nib that flexes MORE for a given amount of pressure.
 
semi-annual => half year
semi-truck => half truck (aka, tractor & trailer rig)
 
Your usage is something I'd call a maxi-flex or extra-flex...


You aren't alone. I don't really understand what he posts, at all. So I end up skipping his posts.

To the OP:
I don't have an M1000 anymore, but when I did I used to use Wet inks in it. It was an M1005 with an F nib which used to put down a line of about 0.4mm and used to finish the entire ink reservoir in 2-3 A4 Pages.
I never flexed it though. Despite whatever any one else says, avoid flexing it. Someone wrote here that one nibmeister says that M1000 is the nib he receives the most among Pelikan nibs for fixing because people damage it very easily.

#8 Bo Bo Olson

Bo Bo Olson

    Ancient Artifact

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,581 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted 10 October 2018 - 10:19

I didn't invent the term semi-flex......certainly did invent the term maxi-semi-flex.***

 

A decade ago, definitions  were not so precise as now....much talk of a flexi nib.....with no definitions. Mainly in few had German '50-70 pens. Superflex was known, but like today seldom used.

If you are confused now....think how it was a decade ago..........What did the fella mean by flexi, semi-flex or superflex?

 

 

First you have to have a regular flex pen.....a nib flex that use to be regular issue on many pens back before Large nail pens became popular. Sheaffer made regular flex, nail and in the early '50's a rare semi-flex nib. Esterbrook and Wearever made regular flex too. Parker not, out side of their English pens, in Parker went nail early. I even have a semi-flex English made Jr. Doufold. A maxi-semi-flex  Snorkel made in Australia. They had to compete with Swan which made a wide range of flex up 'flexi'. So what was flexi? Don't have any Swans but assume in there was mention of semi-flex in their nibs, that it might be superflex, perhaps the first stage; Easy Full Flex......(then comes Wet Noodles.)....flexi bent more than a nail, right?

 

There is a three X tine spread set.....regular flex, semi-flex, and maxi-semi-flex.The tines will spread 3 X a light down stroke.

So take your regular flex pen....buy a 200 a regular flex nib for your Esterbrook, or get lucky with a Sheaffer. Mash the the nib to 3 X tine spread vs a light down stroke. (One can not write that way, and it's not a nib to even try a slight bit of fancy with.) This is your basis for comparing all other nib flexes to. Can't know you have an elbow, with out a regular flex nibbed pen.

 

Semi-flex takes half the pressure of a mashed regular flex to reach 3 X tine spread. One can write that way if one is Ham Fisted enough. I was so ham fisted. It took me some 3 months to get from ham fisted to only slightly ham fisted with my 'first' semi-flex a Pelikan 140. Semi-flex is line variation on demand....got to press a little bit. To those with out more flexible nibs, can be written more fancy.....I only do an occasional fancy decender in there are other nibs that make for easier fancy writing.

 

Maxi-semi-flex takes half of the pressure of a semi-flex or 1/4th the pressure needed with a regular flex to reach 3X. Much easier to write a bit fancy than a semi-flex.

 

I have some 28 semi-flex, @ 16 maxi-semi-flex. Only Osmia marks the difference between semi-flex; Osmia and a small diamond on the nib= semi-flex......sometimes a big diamond with Supra or just Supra on it is a maxi.

I WOG 1 in 5 outside the Osmia are maxi in the '50-70 era German stubbed nibbed pens.

 

***I don't know how the other Rupp nibs are, the three other times I got a chance to win them, I came in second. The first time I used that nib, was wow, that certainly was a maxi-semi-flex nib. It didn't spread it's tines wide enough to be a superflex.

For three days I spun in little circles before :eureka: :eureka: :eureka:, it was it's own flex set. I dug into my then only 25 or so pens, most semi-flex and started bending nibs....a bit.

I had five in this new flex set I discovered.

Being 'noobie' OCD, I over analyzed. 'Developing a system...that went nowhere.

F-1 I had two pens there, a tad easier bend, F- 1 1/4....I had 2 pens........that Rupp nib that started it all was F-1 1/2..........and is till my most flexible maxi.

Now I just say yep, semi or maxi' with out going out and inventing a machine to measure. In my system of halves, from regular flex to wet noodle works for me.

(will say that that 1/2 system in superflex is only for beginners of superflex, in there is much more variation in superflex than the lower flex rates.

Regular flex mashed to 3x.

1/2 that semi-flex.

Maxi 1/2 that or 1/4th the pressure needed to mash a regular flex to 3X.

 

Superflex 4x, 5-6X and rare outside of someone demonstrating how to ruin a superflex nib on Youtube or buy a sprung nib on Ebay.....7X. Having read Richard Binder's article on metal fatigue, do strive to keep them under max.

Easy Full Flex, half as much pressure needed for the maxi, or 1/8th the pressure needed to mash a regular flex.

Wet Noodle, half of that or 1/16th the pressure needed to mash a regular flex to 3X.

Weak Kneed Wet Noodle....a term invented by John Sowbota (sp) Oxnard on the com......takes less, how much I don't know. I have had a '20's MB Safety Pen, in my hands at a live auction that I'd rate there. I don't want any............I'd have to learn to write.

 

There are of course middle flexible dip pens that flex more and easier than a Wet Noodle. (do have 4 of them) Then there are nibs like a 99-100-101 (have) or the Gillette 303/404 (don't have) that make a Wet Noodle uncooked.

 

Some folks say or think a Wet Noodle must be mushy....that is a recent interpretation.  :bunny01:Could be they buy those Youtube or Ebay Olympic split nibs. Or I was very lucky; how ever two were from Mauricio, so don't expect mushy from him.

Or they have many more than me. Or I'm wrong.....do you know how hard a wall is when one gets out of bed on the wrong side?


Everyone says poor Mozart dead at only 36. None say poor Mendelson, dead at only 38. His family only allowed him to start at 20, but before, musicians use to come to the Mendelson garden to steal the music of Mendelson and his sister. A good artist also, can still buy prints of his famous Scottish drawings in Scotland.

 

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany      Info on Bock nibs

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

Pens/inks/paper on hold for a year....new addiction pocket watch chains. :happyberet:


#9 Uncial

Uncial

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,339 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 10 October 2018 - 10:53

The Pelikan M1000 nib has noticeable bounce, but it's not a flexible nib in any sense. You might see a little bit of line variation, but not to any great degree. 


Edited by Uncial, 10 October 2018 - 10:53.


#10 SchaumburgSwan

SchaumburgSwan

    Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 100 posts
  • Location:Schaumburg, Northern Germany
  • Flag:

Posted 10 October 2018 - 19:37

...

F-1 I had two pens there, a tad easier bend, F- 1 1/4....I had 2 pens........that Rupp nib that started it all was F-1 1/2..........and is till my most flexible maxi.

Now I just say yep, semi or maxi' with out going out and inventing a machine to measure. In my system of halves, from regular flex to wet noodle works for me.

(will say that that 1/2 system in superflex is only for beginners of superflex, in there is much more variation in superflex than the lower flex rates.

Regular flex mashed to 3x.

1/2 that semi-flex.

Maxi 1/2 that or 1/4th the pressure needed to mash a regular flex to 3X.

 

Superflex 4x, 5-6X and rare outside of someone demonstrating how to ruin a superflex nib on Youtube or buy a sprung nib on Ebay.....7X. Having read Richard Binder's article on metal fatigue, do strive to keep them under max.

Easy Full Flex, half as much pressure needed for the maxi, or 1/8th the pressure needed to mash a regular flex.

Wet Noodle, half of that or 1/16th the pressure needed to mash a regular flex to 3X.

Weak Kneed Wet Noodle...

 

Hallo BoBo,

 

to me your concept works. It helped a lot to understand the wide range of flex nibs on my Swans.

 

Only the term "regular flex" for a nib unwilling to flex unless much force is applied is a bit misleading... maybe "basic flex" is better? Or semi-nail? Low flex?

 

Best reguards and thank you

Jens


Edited by SchaumburgSwan, 10 October 2018 - 19:57.

.....................................................................................................
 
https://www.flickr.c...5166@N02/albums


#11 Bo Bo Olson

Bo Bo Olson

    Ancient Artifact

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,581 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted 11 October 2018 - 09:53

Jens, there is a semi-nail....if mashed it will go 2X, like a P-75 or modern 400/600.

 

Regular flex will mash out to 3 X. The problem is out side the 200, Wearever, some Esterbrook nibs....in I don't chase US pens, I can't tell folks which vintage/semi-vintage Sheaffer to buy in regular flex. Back in black and white TV days Sheaffer did make regular flex also...........perhaps more in it's second level pens. But I don't know. So I can't tell them to buy a certain Sheaffer/sub brand and they might find one. I do know if Esterbrook made regular flex nibs, which they did, other companies did ....which was why it 'is' called regular flex, in it was once regular issue.

 

Some folks run in to German regular flex Semi-vintage '80-90's pens and think they are semi-flex because the tines both bend and spread. They are not. But that shows that regular flex has become unknown.

 

Someone like Jar could say this and that model of Sheaffer could be had in regular flex or nail.

One use to go to the counter of department store pen section or stationary shop and try out the pens.

 

I don't chase Japanese pens....but it is my understanding that a unmodified Falcon is a 'springy' nib, good tine bend but only 2 X tine spread, like a modern MB or the new gran Lamy Imporium nib.

 

I don't know if normal Japanese nibs run to nails or regular flex..............I don't go to the Japanese sub-section, but here it's hard to weasel out of someone what flex his non modified Japanese nib is.

Soft don't really cut it....a semi-nail is soft compared to a nail.

 

I don't ask enough. I don't go to Sheaffer and ask what flex has your Targa...or do you have one in both regular flex and nail.....which could be quite possible.

 

The idea of calling a regular flex.....soft, is new & alien to me.......and very imprecise.

 

It's like I've had gold nails, and a nail is a nail, be it gold or steel. Yet folks insist that gold is softer...when I think they may be comparing a steel nail with a gold semi-nail.

 

xxxx 1000

I had taken a good example semi-flex nib with me to the B&M some 7 years ago, to see if the 1000 was semi-flex or springy as different owners claimed. That pen, then, was semi-flex. I compared it closely.

Then for years I was of the firm and wrong opinion many were wrong when they said their 1000 was only springy.

A couple months ago I won a 1000 in OBB, and a pre'97 small 600 in OBB....and both were and are springy regular flex.

An the 1000 like most Pelikans but the 200 is fatter than semi-vintage.......I do know about nib width tolerance/slop, but compared to the 1000 the 600 is OB1/2.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 11 October 2018 - 09:56.

Everyone says poor Mozart dead at only 36. None say poor Mendelson, dead at only 38. His family only allowed him to start at 20, but before, musicians use to come to the Mendelson garden to steal the music of Mendelson and his sister. A good artist also, can still buy prints of his famous Scottish drawings in Scotland.

 

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany      Info on Bock nibs

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

Pens/inks/paper on hold for a year....new addiction pocket watch chains. :happyberet:






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: m1000, wetness, line variation, flex, soft, springiness



Sponsored Content




|