Ink Drying Out... In The Bottle

[azbobcat]

Well this is a new one. I have at least 8 colored inks, but most of I use is Private Reserve's Blue Suede, and Private Reserve's Naples Blue, and occasionally Private Reserve's Tanzanite, along with Private Reserve's Arabian Rose. My Red inks such as Fiesta Red, and Burgundy Mist; my Green ink Spearmint, and my lone Orange ink, Tangerine Dreams, I don't usually use too much. Indeed the Tangerine Dreams was opened a small sample was taken then closed back up. The other day I went to refill one of my pens to taken with me on a trip, only to discover most of the ink in all my bottles, including the Tangerine Dreams, opened ONCE were virtually empty, and at lot of ink was on the glass walls. All the bottles were capped tightly. I took a bottle of Distilled Water and added a splash or two of water to each bottle and then shook the bottles up and I now have ink again. Not cool, but it works in a pinch. I just re-ordered 4 of the 8 inks (in in 66ml size not 50ml size). But that brings up another question: How do I prevent the inks from drying out while still in the bottle? I just spent almost $60 on ink, and would prefer to have it NOT dry out while in storage.

 

When I was a laboratory director and had about $50,000 worth of various microbiological media, I learned that to prevent water from entering and caking up the media, the best thing to do upon receipt of the media was to take it out of the box, turn it over, and date it. Any moisture that would enter would be confined to that media at the top and seal out future moisture from entering. That might work well for DRY media, but doing that with a LIQUID such as INK might be asking for a disaster. Is there some place where I can purchase new Cap Liners (??) -- Once I open a bottle of ink for any reason, simple remove the existing cap liner, insert a NEW Cap Liner, then tightly recap the bottle.

 

If Cap Liners are not the solution, how do you prevent ink from drying out in the bottle? Adding the Distilled Water was a stop gap measure until I can replace all the ink. (I don't think I added enough water to the Naples Blue, I filled a pen, and then did some test squiggles, the ink flow really well (!) but it seems far darker than I remember. I'm probably going to stock up on the Blue Suede, that has always been "my color".

 

I'm about to date myself, but back in the day I can remember when I went to school, and the teacher required that all homework be done in INK, this was before BIC introduced their disposable ball points, and the good Papermate's cost a fortune. Shaffer had introduced this cheap fountain pen (God those suckers LEAKED!) that used cartridge ink, but the best fountain pen for the masses was the Parker 45. I had two jars of Quink one was blue and the other was green (because the store had run out of blue) and so I started turning stuff written in green ink, until a new stock of Blue came it, when both jars were about half full I simply combined them to produce a color that varied from a Teal Blue to a Turquoise. My papers always stood out because I was the ONLY person who used that colored ink. As they say, the rest is History. When I developed Parkinson's Disease I switched back to using a Fountain Pen, then came across Private Reserves Blue Suede, which is damn near the color of my long ago signature ink.

 

Which brings me to the next question: I tend to go through my Blue Suede and the Naples Blue more or less fairly quickly, but I could drain a bottle to the point there is not enough left in the bottle to fill a pen without tilting the bottle. With my Parkinson's trying to tilt the bottle with one hand while filling with the other and add to that a tremor and you have the potential for disaster. In the processing of filling the four pens two days ago, my fingers and hands become trip of Tanzanite, Blue Suede, Naples Blue, and Arabian Rose. Does anyone make a rack that will hold a bottle of ink at say a 45 degree angle? If so who makes it and where can I get one?

 

A final note: It seems Private Reserve seems to no longer make Tangerine Dreams, they now do offer two ORANGE inks: Shoreline Gold, and Orange Crush. Does anyone know which of the two comes closest to matching the Tangerine Dreams?

 

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

 

 

[UDog]

My mom used to store spaghetti sauce upside down to prevent it from going bad. So, if air can't get in, then it can't get out either. Right?

 

I usually empty my bottles rather quickly so I haven't experienced evaporation...yet.

[LizEF]

Looks like the bottles are glass, so barring tiny fractures, it's not likely the glass that's the problem. Either the caps are cracked or they don't seal well - as you suspected. Other than sealing the container, the only thoughts I have are:

• Keep the bottles in a cool, dark place without lots of air flow
• Perhaps seal the bottles in a plastic bag?

Do you know how long the evaporation took?

 

As for holding the bottles at 45-degrees, perhaps you could find someone to make something from wood that lets you slide the bottle in? Shouldn't be too hard.

[OCArt]

I enjoyed reading your post. New cap liners can be cut from styrofoam plates. As to filling your pens you might want to purchase a vintage Sheaffer ink bottle with the little, side ink-well or perhaps make a small bag and partially fill it with steel shot or even beans and set the bottle in that. Levenger ink bottles have a built in filling well, you tip the bottle over to fill the well and then fill pen.

[tamiya]

I don't have any Private Reserve bottles to hand so I don't know what vessels they use.

 

But I've had a batch of ink in small 30ml squat rectangular bottles with rounded shoulders, the threaded stem had a little ledge at its bottom limit - nothing too unique, you'd think.

 

However the caps chosen by maker were taller than the threaded area, so the seal inside the cap didn't get to reach the lip of the bottle even when cranked down tight. These bottles leaked when tipped over & suffered heavy rates of evaporation.

 

I dug out the original seal, cut discs of other material to pack between seal & cap and they're sealing well now.

[azbobcat]

I don't have any Private Reserve bottles to hand so I don't know what vessels they use.

 

But I've had a batch of ink in small 30ml squat rectangular bottles with rounded shoulders, the threaded stem had a little ledge at its bottom limit - nothing too unique, you'd think.

 

However the caps chosen by maker were taller than the threaded area, so the seal inside the cap didn't get to reach the lip of the bottle even when cranked down tight. These bottles leaked when tipped over & suffered heavy rates of evaporation.

 

I dug out the original seal, cut discs of other material to pack between seal & cap and they're sealing well now.

 

"...However the caps chosen by maker were taller than the threaded area, so the seal inside the cap didn't get to reach the lip of the bottle even when cranked down tight. These bottles leaked when tipped over & suffered heavy rates of evaporation."

 

Ah!!! I had not considered that idea. I keep my old bottles as I use them up just in case I want to get adventuresome and mix some of my own. I'll try some experimentation with the empty bottle to see if that is indeed the problem. I usually keep all my inks in their respective boxes, but living in Tucson, AZ. It can get hot here. Another idea just occurred to me: Many of my friends are research scientists, maybe I try and bum some paraffin wax sheets from them and then simply wrap the outside of the glass and cap so air can't get IN or water vapor can't get OUT. BTW Paraffin Wax (used in laboratories) costs a boatload of $$$... or at least it did 25 years ago. I know I had to buy the stuff. That said a little bit can go a very long way. It looks as though I need to do some research. $60 for four small bottles of ink is a fortune when you live on Social Security, and I sure don't want it drying out while sitting in the bottle. While adding the distilled water was enough to revive all those inks I have no idea how much would be too much, so I added a "splash" if there was still liquid ink that could still be seen, and "two splashes" if it was starting to look like liquid sludge. That is probably why my Naples Blue looks so dark, that said I sometimes wonder if I added too much water as it really flows from a pen I use to have problems writing with.

 

I starting using a FP again once my tremors got so bad that a ball point got to hard to control, but have since discovered that all ball points are not created equal. The problem that I have found with FP is they tend to bleed through to the other side of some papers (like my check register and checks). Bills I guess I will still have to write out in ball point, but everything else, I'm going back to my FP.

[tamiya]

yes im now very mindful of any bottle whose cap bottoms out on the ledge of the bottle & there's ink spill stains on the label/box

 

This is the only time I've had every colour of that brand dry up, Caps occasionally crack or inner seals perish but wouldn't be every bottle at the same time.

 

Have lost a fair few bottles worth to evaporation over the years... but none as painful as discovering my last 2 bottles of Parker Penman looking a lot emptier than I'd left them. No modern equivalent that I've found, can't afford to even dream of chasing any NewOldStock bottles occasionally resold today.

Edited October 6, 2018 by tamiya

[LizEF]

Hmm. I'm thinking after this thread that perhaps it's wise to check ink bottles on receipt to ensure they seal well, and then perhaps put a strip of masking tape or something similar, and mark the level after each fill (or couple of fills) so that if it's changed significantly between uses, one can use distilled water to restore the volume to the last-known level (instead of having to guess).

[BaronWulfraed]

Hmmm... I'm wondering if putting a bead of plumber's putty around the cap would be effective. Obviously not on the bottle mouth.

 

If the ink is going to be stored long-term, perhaps a bead of caulk (or hot-melt glue?) around the cap. Something that might seal, yet be easy to peel off later.

[wallylynn]

Lamy bottles have that little ink well dimple. Goulet Pens sells their "ink miser" insert. Or you can make your own. perhaps smoosh the bottle into some play-doh.

 

Could be that the water just diffused through the plastic cap. Sealed ink carts are known to dry up. My Noodler's pens are notorious for drying up.

[azbobcat]

Hmmm... I'm wondering if putting a bead of plumber's putty around the cap would be effective. Obviously not on the bottle mouth.

 

If the ink is going to be stored long-term, perhaps a bead of caulk (or hot-melt glue?) around the cap. Something that might seal, yet be easy to peel off later.

 

Here are a couple of ideas I have come with that might be worth a try. I am a retired research laboratory director and most of the people I hang out with are lab rats too. One thing I'm going to look into seeing if I can bum off them is a small amount of Laboratory grade Paraffin Wax sheeting -- notice I said *small*. That stuff costs a kings ransom. A strip 4 inches wide should be enough to do 8 - 10 bottles of ink.

 

This next idea *may* be worth looking into if you don't have inks you don't open to much. Wrap the threads of the bottled with Teflon Tape.

 

Another idea I'm looking at is to write to whoever makes your inks and supplies their bottles and caps, to find out what cap sizes fit their bottles and then write to that company and order a bag of 120 or there about for about $12 and change. If you have an ink that you don't use frequently, once you open a jar of ink, before you put it away, wipe the lips and threads so they are clean, then toss the old cap and replace with a new cap thereby creating a new seal.

 

I *suspect* -- don't know -- when you open a jar of ink you are breaking the seal of the jar created by the cap liner, and the bottle, the liner which has been under pressure since it bottled, becomes deformed, and even if you screw the cap back on tight, the liner no longer makes a perfect seal, even if you snug the cap down tight. A NEW cap solves that problem. OTOH for an ink you are constantly using, the chances are good you will empty the bottle long before evaporation becomes a problem. Back when I was in High School (and every thing written in ink was usually written with a fountain pen) I would good through a jar of Quink in about 6-9 months. Cartridges were far more costly than a jar of ink. I'd plow through a cartridge in about 1-1.5 weeks. (That was back in the day when teachers really gave homework).

 

If you live in a place which has high temperatures and low humidity -- like Tucson, AZ -- that imperfect seal allows the water component of the ink to evaporate out if the ink has been sitting around for a year or more, otherwise how do you explain why a previously almost full bottle of ink is suddenly down to a few mL to almost a liquid ink sludge? That water had to go somewhere. A properly sealed jar should experience ZERO water loss.

[tamiya]

Most bottle caps work fine... I have a lot of old ink if the cardboard box ain't ink stained inside the ink is usually still in the bottle 20/30/40yrs later

 

You can add rubber gaskets or extra seals if you're so bothered; I haven't unless known defect.

 

For shipping opened bottles I've tried smearing some Vaseline to seal the threads; I've also just put full new bottles into airplane cargo. So far touchwood none have leaked enough to stain their boxes.

 

Parker & Sheaffer (maybe Cross too but I don't own any that old) cartridges take about 25yrs to dry up to about 1/2 of original volume. Pilot carts seem to age better.

[azbobcat]

 

" Another idea just occurred to me: Many of my friends are research scientists, maybe I try and bum some paraffin wax sheets from them and then simply wrap the outside of the glass and cap so air can't get IN or water vapor can't get OUT. BTW Paraffin Wax (used in laboratories) costs a boatload of $$$... or at least it did 25 years ago.

.

 

This is a followup on at least a few topics and ideas...

 

First I bought another bottle of Private Reserve Blue Suede ( the original Blue-Green formula)... just in case it can't be found any more.

 

Second in regards to inks drying out in their bottles, I got in touch with a friend who directs a research lab, and yep, they had some Paraffin Wax and asked her to cut me a strip 4" wide, and she brought me a pippet so I can know *exactly* how much distilled water I am adding to any bottle.

 

I now have 5 NEW bottles of Private Reserve 66mL inks. I took small cuttings of my Paraffin Wax and then stretched it around each bottle. I wrapped both the cap and bottle so there is now a perfect seal between the two.

 

I had a bit of a problem with an old bottle of Private Reserve "Tangerine Dream" which in in their OLD oval 50mL bottles. First I took off the cap and added "a splash or two" of distilled water to re-hydrate the ink which had evaporated down to a few mL. Next I took a paper towel and wiped the lip and the threads of the bottle until they were clean. Last I rinsed out the cap and liner and wiped the threads of the cap until I got no more ink on the paper towel. Having done that I then, and only then, screwed the cap back in place. With the bottle now prepared, I then cut a slice of my Paraffin Wax and wrapped both the cap and the bottle as best I could and then put it back in its original box. Private Reserve's NEW 50mL bottles (similar to the 66mL bottles) are far easier to wrap and seal than the old oval bottles.

 

All my "old" inks got the cleaning process, but not the Paraffin Wax treatment. During the process I found an unlabeled combined ink of two or more Blue inks which I have now called "Mysterious Blue". I'll probably use "Mysterious Blue" and drain it before I use up the rest of my old "Blue Inks" (ie PR Blue Suede [ "original formula" ], and PR Naples Blue).

[amberleadavis]

So, now would not be a good time to confess that I have wrapped old bottles in Saran Wrap?

[eharriett]

This idea of adding paraffin wax intrigues me. Here's why: I have a fair amount of new ink I don't care too much about if it evaporated. But, I've also got a decent amount of old rare ink which I do care about. Some of it is old Sheaffer Skrip which has a tendency to evaporate. This is ink I do use on occasion. But when I use it, I am always afraid it is going to evaporate out once I first crack open the bottle.

 

So how would I go about sealing these ink bottles closed once I draw from them? Can I unseal, reseal without too much difficulty?

[amberleadavis]

@AzBobCat. When you come to town (Vegas) sometime, come see me. I have hundreds of bottles (literally) and only a handful have ever dried out. Those that dried out had plastic bottles or caps that did not fit well. I still have ink from the late 1980s. Truly, I would not panic about inks drying out.

[azbobcat]

@AzBobCat. When you come to town (Vegas) sometime, come see me. I have hundreds of bottles (literally) and only a handful have ever dried out. Those that dried out had plastic bottles or caps that did not fit well. I still have ink from the late 1980s. Truly, I would not panic about inks drying out.

 

Well I see you are a Desert Dweller too! Here is what I discovered: While I was pondering the mystery, the inks I used most often I use to first shake before I would open to refill the pen/s ( Blue Suede, Naples Blue, Tanzanite ) and after refilling the jars with Distilled water and shaking, all of a sudden ink would fly in spite of being tightly capped!!

 

After I took a paper moist towel after rinsing out the cap, then wiping the threads of both the threads of the cap, threads of the jar, and the lip of the jar until no more ink came off on the towel, I then re-capped the jar and once again shook it. Ta-Da!! No more ink came out of the jar! This makes me think that the problem is a cap sealing problem.

 

Now what would be of interest would be to study the surface area of the cap/jar interface and how much evaporation takes place. Private Reserve bottles tend to use caps with wide surface areas. Compare this to -- as I recall -- Parker's (?) Penman (?) Emerald Green that had large bottles but had -- relatively -- tiny caps. Literally the opening through you put the pen into and the inside "well" was relatively small compared the mouth size of the Private Reserve bottles.

 

It would be interesting to know which bottles you lost ink out of -- vs -- size of the mouth / jar openings.

 

For the time being I'll probably restock the remaining 3-4 Private Reserve colors I tend to use and once they come in without opening the jars, make sure the jars are snugged down, and then give them the Paraffin Wax treatment before putting them away until we find out what the story is with Private Reserve ie. are they going out of business or not.

 

From my minor experiment so far I *think* the problem is once ink gets onto the lip and threads it creates voids through which air and enter, and water evaporate out... that or a faulty cap seal. Assuming the cap seal is still good, *probably* the best idea depending upon the frequency of use of that ink, would be to simply rise out the cap, wipe off the threads of both the cap and the jar with a moist paper towel, then wipe off the lip of the jar so there is no ink coming off on the towel, before you recap the jar... especially if your ink jar happens to have a wide mouth and cap. If the ink may not be accessed in a long period of time wrap the cap and the jar with Paraffin Wax. I realize this is a GIANT PITA but this method *should* prevent your ink from drying out while stored in their jars, in their ORIGINAL boxes, in a relatively cool (80 degrees indoor temperature during the Summer, 72 degree indoor temperature during the Winter) location.

 

The above does NOT apply (though still a good idea) to an ink that you are going to run through within a year's time -- you'll probably drain the bottle before there is any appreciable evaporation that takes place.

 

Probably the ONLY reason I became aware of this problem is because as my Parkinson's has progressed, I have avoided actually WRITING or doing anything at all with my hands because my tremors have gotten so bad. So I simply but away my pens and my inks and there they sat probably for the last 2-4 year until I went to write a Halloween Card and went to open my jar hardly ever used Tangerine Dream, only to discover there was virtually nothing left in the jar... and virtually nothing left in the other 8 jars.

 

It might be useful at this point IF you have several bottles of ink, some of which you may have stored for a few years, to see if you have experienced any appreciable evaporation problems, if so is the ink in a small mouth bottle, such as the old Parker Penman bottles, or a wide mouth bottle such as the Private Reserve bottles? What type of environmental conditions are common in your area? For example if you life in the Desert Southwest like Tucson, AZ it is not uncommon to have Relative Humidity in the single digits ( like 2% RH ) and Dew Points in the single digits -- or even negative values -- as well. OTOH if you live in some place such as FL or LA where you have HIGH RH -- 70-90% not being uncommon -- it might give us a profile about inks, and ink storage.

 

Thanks.

[azbobcat]

So, now would not be a good time to confess that I have wrapped old bottles in Saran Wrap?

Saran Wrap -- or indeed any impervious substance -- is actually a great idea. Saran Wrap is far more readily available than Paraffin Wax. I immediately thought of Paraffin Wax because I use to use a lot of it when I was a laboratory director, and many of my friends are also scientists, and have access to the stuff.... but the stuff costs a fortune. Saran Wrap is a far more cost effective solution so long as you wrap the juncture between the cap and the bottle.

[eharriett]

Saran Wrap -- or indeed any impervious substance -- is actually a great idea. Saran Wrap is far more readily available than Paraffin Wax. I immediately thought of Paraffin Wax because I use to use a lot of it when I was a laboratory director, and many of my friends are also scientists, and have access to the stuff.... but the stuff costs a fortune. Saran Wrap is a far more cost effective solution so long as you wrap the juncture between the cap and the bottle.

OK, Saran Wrap. Do you just put it on the threads and then twist the lid on, or do you wrap the whole bottle in it?

[amberleadavis]

On the bottles I was shipping, I just wrapped the entire bottle. On the bottles with "iffy" threads I put Saran Wrap between the cap and lid and then screwed down the cap as best I could. I can't speak the scientific reasoning but I can speak to the efficacy.