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Very Disappointing Experience With A Pelikan M805 Stresemann

pelikan m805 m800 gold nib 18k fine medium alternatives recommendations

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#41 John545

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 15:47

 

Quite true. This has been my experience too. Micromesh has saved me from throwing many a pen across the room in frustration, lol. I've also had to make a nib DRASTICALLY wetter. I had a TWSBI that was so dry the line it wrote would literally go from a medium right after filling it to an extra fine by the end of a page. Drove me crazy!

 

I got TWO brass sheets and inserted them between the tines and then got 2 or 3 regular sheets of copy paper and wedged them in between the two brass sheets. This spread the tines out a bit and got me the flow I wanted. Sadly, the "airlock" issue with Jowo nibs meant it still couldn't keep the flow going and I sold it on. Through experiencing three different pens, all with Jowo nibs, I've come to realize I just need to avoid Jowo nibs -- unless I'm prepared to drill out the feed nipple to let more air and ink flow through, lol...

 

That's interesting. A Twsbi 580 has been my main writer for the last couple of years, and while the nib isn't incredible, I haven't experienced any issues with it 



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#42 stephanos

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 20:36

I'm coming a bit late to this, but here are my thoughts anyway, for what they're worth.

 

First, The Writing Desk is both a UK seller and offers excellent service and will certainly check your pen before sending it to you. If you want to give the M805 Stresemann another go, then they are a good option.

 

Second, whilst I have (ahem, n) Pelikans and very much like the M80X model, the value-for-money equation has definitely changed in recent years, as their prices have risen sharply and my perception of their quality control has declined. That's why I no longer buy new versions of anything other than (ocasionally) their 200 series (which are better value and more reliable).

As an alternative, a lovely pen in a different style that writes excellently is the Sailor Pro Gear (large) which costs £216-238 (depending on finish). Personally, I find Sailor's Medium nibs to be close to the platonic ideal for stiff nibs. The ProGear is a little smaller than the 800, but plenty big enough for my largeish hands. Having said all that, I don't particularly care for their broad nibs (by comparison, the Platinum broad nibs are excellent).

In the UK, The Writing Desk and Write Here in Shrewsbury sell them (as does CultPens, I see). I've bought from all of these and find them very good.

 

Third, I don't know where in the UK you are, but the London pen show is coming up in a few weeks (Sunday 7 October) and I'm pretty sure there's at least one more this year somewhere else in Britain. IF you can go in person, I'd recommend going, and not buying anything before then. Handling the pens in person is really the best way. You 'll have no shortage of inspiration, and you might even find a Pelikan M80X that you really like.

 

Fourth, you asked about a nibmeister in the UK. I'm not sure the title really fits, but John Sorowka (spelling?) is excellent with nibs. I understand that Omas trusted him with their nib-work in Europe. I _think_ he os oxonian on FPN, but I've seen him at the London pen show.

 

Fifth, don't assume that you received a return. It's possible that the shop did a dip-test before sending it out, for example, which would explain the scrunched-up plastic cover.

 

Finally, definitely send the pen back. If you have to eat the cost, then it's a price worth paying for the experience.

You'll have to decide separately whether to buy from the retailer again. I received a faulty pen from a particular seller, I think about a year ago (a Pelikan, as it happens) and they refused to cover the return postage, so I simply won't buy from them any more. In your case, it's not possible from your description to tell whether the pen really was faulty.

 

 

PS, a cheeky plug: I'm running a Pay-it-Forward at the moment, with some nice pens available. You might consider entering for one of them. (See the pay it forward board, in the FPN community part of the homepage.)



#43 Mulrich

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 02:31

 
Thanks for your comment.
 
I have experimented with nib adjustments in the past. I have micromesh, brass sheets and a loupe for just that. I've watched several guides online and I tried it out on a couple of relatively cheap Twsbi nibs.
 
My adjustments seemed to go ok, (although not perfect)
 
The problem is I'm just not comfortable making an adjustment like that to a pen that costs this much. At least not until I have a much better grasp of it. As unlikely as it may be, I could end up making the situation worse, and end up with a pen I can't return. I'm more comfortable with just returning the pen.
 
Sending it to a nibmeister would probably be a better solution, although I'm not aware of anyone in the UK. Any recommendations?

I can appreciate apprehension about adjusting an M800 but the mechanics of it are no different than other pens. Just go slow and you shouldnt have any problems. An M800 was actually the first pen I adjusted and everything worked out. It took way longer to make the nib wetter than it should have the first time.

#44 minddance

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 02:52

I think it is a miserable that one has to micromesh a nib at this price. Why are you paying so much to buy work for yourself to do? You should be paying to enjoy.

#45 sirgilbert357

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 03:54

I think it is a miserable that one has to micromesh a nib at this price. Why are you paying so much to buy work for yourself to do? You should be paying to enjoy.

 

I don't think I've ever spent more than a minute or two with the micro mesh on ANY nib. It doesn't take much. A few figure eights or sign my name once and its usually done.

 

The nibs are made largely for the "masses". The pen companies have to find a level of finish and writing feel/quality that appeals to the largest audience possible. That means there will be some who are disappointed and want to adjust their nib. That's just how it is. I accept the fact that not everyone wants a nib that writes exactly like I want them to. Doesn't bother me in the least to adjust it a bit to fine tune the feel.



#46 minddance

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 04:02

 
I don't think I've ever spent more than a minute or two with the micro mesh on ANY nib. It doesn't take much. A few figure eights or sign my name once and its usually done.
 
The nibs are made largely for the "masses". The pen companies have to find a level of finish and writing feel/quality that appeals to the largest audience possible. That means there will be some who are disappointed and want to adjust their nib. That's just how it is. I accept the fact that not everyone wants a nib that writes exactly like I want them to. Doesn't bother me in the least to adjust it a bit to fine tune the feel.


The OP has quite clearly stated it is a pen that is dry and does not write smoothly, in other words, I read the pen does not write properly. It is not a matter of taste like how much tooth/grip on paper, writing angle, shading patterns, etc.

I do not accept the reason that these pens are produced for the masses because i do not think the masses enjoy paying a premium for pens that do not put ink onto paper and scratchy. But I understand what you are teying to say, yes, these pens have some kind of factory default that may not cater to every taste, as do all other pens. But this is not the issue here.

A pen must put ink onto paper. And in the case of Pelikans, I believe the factory default is smooth, not purposefully feedbacky like Sailors. Therefore, not putting ink onto paper and not smooth is not Pelikan. It is not a matter of taste here.

#47 sirgilbert357

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 04:08

 

That's interesting. A Twsbi 580 has been my main writer for the last couple of years, and while the nib isn't incredible, I haven't experienced any issues with it 

 

I had a Classic Mini with the M, 1.1 and 1.5 and then I had a Franklin Christoph with three nibs, the M, 1.1 and 1.5 and another one customized by...oh I forget his name...is it Mike Masayuma? It was a cursive italic. Anyway, every single one of them would start out wet and normal at the beginning of a writing session. If I wrote continuously for a full page, the line of ink would get thinner and thinner. By the start of page two, I was usually "burping the pen" (turning it nib up and tapping the barrel to let the converter exchange the air bubble that had become trapped) or just turning the knob to flood the feed with ink. I've posted about it several times and its a well-known issue with C/C pens. There's a guy named Fountainbel that did a write up on the issue with a really good diagram that explained why it happens. Since I use mostly piston pens now, I don't really have any issues.

 

I have a work associate who has two TWBIs and we've talked about the issue and he has the same problem. If he takes short notes of a half a page or less and sets the pen down for a bit, it's no problem. Its just during continuous writing that the wetness drops off. He has a Vac Mini and something else...not sure which one. I've seen others discuss the issue. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Doesn't seem to affect the finer nibs as much -- they aren't flowing as much ink, so they aren't as likely to have issues keeping up. Try a 1.5 nib with some quick cursive writing for a page though, and you'll see what I mean...



#48 sirgilbert357

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 04:12

The OP has quite clearly stated it is a pen that is dry and does not write smoothly, in other words, I read the pen does not write properly. It is not a matter of taste like how much tooth/grip on paper, writing angle, shading patterns, etc.

I do not accept the reason that these pens are produced for the masses because i do not think the masses enjoy paying a premium for pens that do not put ink onto paper and scratchy. But I understand what you are teying to say, yes, these pens have some kind of factory default that may not cater to every taste, as do all other pens. But this is not the issue here.

A pen must put ink onto paper. And in the case of Pelikans, I believe the factory default is smooth, not purposefully feedbacky like Sailors. Therefore, not putting ink onto paper and not smooth is not Pelikan. It is not a matter of taste here.

 

Oh, I wasn't really thinking of the OP when I wrote that response. It was just a comment made in general to yours...I've already said that with the ink and paper the OP was using there's a problem (with the nib). He was doing everything right from what we were told. He was right to send it back I think.

 

Should we HAVE to tweak the nib this day and age? Well, no...not even on a really cheap pen! This is 2018 for crying out loud! But at the same time, I'm a bit more laid back about these things. If I get a pen I really want and a tine is bent, its going back. If it just has a bit of tooth or skips, I'm going to fix it myself. Different strokes for different folks, nothing wrong with doing it either way.


Edited by sirgilbert357, 19 September 2018 - 13:26.


#49 minddance

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 04:50

 
Oh, I wasn't really thinking of the OP when I wrote that response. It was just a comment made in general to yours...I've already said that with the ink and paper the OP was using there a problem. He was doing everything right from what we were told. He was right to send it back I think.
 
Should we HAVE to tweak the nib this day and age? Well, no...not even on a really cheap pen! This is 2018 for crying out loud! But at the same time, I'm a bit more laid back about these things. If I get a pen I really want and a tine is bent, its going back. If it just has a bit of tooth or skips, I'm going to fix it myself. Different strokes for different folks, nothing wrong with doing it either way.


I was thinking about the OP while reading, therefore the response. Please don't mind me.

Yes, the fun with fountain pens is that the user can tweak the nib and sort certain things out :)

#50 minddance

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 05:00

May I mention that I bought a m800medium renaissance brown from Appelboom last year, or was it 2years ago? I can't remember exactly.

The nib was opposite of what it is purported to be, it was dry. I always had the impression that Pelikans write wet. And it also had baby's bottom, that I know.

This is what I did: I contacted Joost from Appelboom and without questioning me, he apologised and said he is sorry the nib did not write to my liking, I still have the email somewhere in my mailbox.

He sent me a new nib BEFORE I even sent out the problematic nib to him. Such is trust and impeccable service. Now the new nib writes glass smooth. This is what I paid for.

The medium nib, when adjusted wet, is really broad. Just something to note.

If I were to get myself a Pelikan, or any pen, I would get it from Appelboom. Is this considered advertisement or sharing pleasant experiences/things that work?

#51 John545

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 11:30

I'm coming a bit late to this, but here are my thoughts anyway, for what they're worth.

 

First, The Writing Desk is both a UK seller and offers excellent service and will certainly check your pen before sending it to you. If you want to give the M805 Stresemann another go, then they are a good option.

 

Second, whilst I have (ahem, n) Pelikans and very much like the M80X model, the value-for-money equation has definitely changed in recent years, as their prices have risen sharply and my perception of their quality control has declined. That's why I no longer buy new versions of anything other than (ocasionally) their 200 series (which are better value and more reliable).

As an alternative, a lovely pen in a different style that writes excellently is the Sailor Pro Gear (large) which costs £216-238 (depending on finish). Personally, I find Sailor's Medium nibs to be close to the platonic ideal for stiff nibs. The ProGear is a little smaller than the 800, but plenty big enough for my largeish hands. Having said all that, I don't particularly care for their broad nibs (by comparison, the Platinum broad nibs are excellent).

In the UK, The Writing Desk and Write Here in Shrewsbury sell them (as does CultPens, I see). I've bought from all of these and find them very good.

 

Third, I don't know where in the UK you are, but the London pen show is coming up in a few weeks (Sunday 7 October) and I'm pretty sure there's at least one more this year somewhere else in Britain. IF you can go in person, I'd recommend going, and not buying anything before then. Handling the pens in person is really the best way. You 'll have no shortage of inspiration, and you might even find a Pelikan M80X that you really like.

 

Fourth, you asked about a nibmeister in the UK. I'm not sure the title really fits, but John Sorowka (spelling?) is excellent with nibs. I understand that Omas trusted him with their nib-work in Europe. I _think_ he os oxonian on FPN, but I've seen him at the London pen show.

 

Fifth, don't assume that you received a return. It's possible that the shop did a dip-test before sending it out, for example, which would explain the scrunched-up plastic cover.

 

Finally, definitely send the pen back. If you have to eat the cost, then it's a price worth paying for the experience.

You'll have to decide separately whether to buy from the retailer again. I received a faulty pen from a particular seller, I think about a year ago (a Pelikan, as it happens) and they refused to cover the return postage, so I simply won't buy from them any more. In your case, it's not possible from your description to tell whether the pen really was faulty.

 

 

PS, a cheeky plug: I'm running a Pay-it-Forward at the moment, with some nice pens available. You might consider entering for one of them. (See the pay it forward board, in the FPN community part of the homepage.)

 

Hi Stephanos, thanks for your advice.

 

I'm considering buying from the writing desk if I do decide to give the Pelikan another go. I haven't decided yet, but I really do love the look of the Stresemann model so it might be worth giving it another chance.

I recently found out that there's a pen shop not too far from me called Iridium. They seem to have good reviews so I'm also thinking of going there so I'd be able to test it before purchasing. Thanks for letting me know about the London pen show. Sadly I'm up North and will be at Uni again in a couple of weeks so I don't think I'd be able to make it, but I'll take a look and see if there are any others that I might be able to go to.

 

I'll be sure to check out some reviews on the Sailor to see if its a better option for me. Would you say their nibs are wet and smooth? 

I'll make a note of John Sorowka in case I need to send a pen off to a nibmeister in future. Although if I'm paying £300 for a pen like the Pelikan I don't really like the idea of having to send it off for further work. I understand that not every nib can be absolutely perfect, but at that price, you should be able to expect at least a good writing experience.

 

It is possible that it was opened for testing before it was sent, but with the state the packaging was in, I doubt it. Surely they would take care to keep the packaging in good condition. It was clear that it had been screwed up which you wouldn't do if you knew you were putting the pen back in it.

 

Just a couple of hours ago Cultpens confirmed they would refund the cost of the pen and also cover the cost of postage as they agreed I had received a defective nib. I'm fairly pleased with how they handled it so I wouldn't be against going back to them.

 

Funnily enough, I actually entered your pay it forward yesterday! I'm hoping for the vanishing point, but I think that's the most popular option so the odds of winning it aren't so good.



#52 John545

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 11:37

May I mention that I bought a m800medium renaissance brown from Appelboom last year, or was it 2years ago? I can't remember exactly.

The nib was opposite of what it is purported to be, it was dry. I always had the impression that Pelikans write wet. And it also had baby's bottom, that I know.

This is what I did: I contacted Joost from Appelboom and without questioning me, he apologised and said he is sorry the nib did not write to my liking, I still have the email somewhere in my mailbox.

He sent me a new nib BEFORE I even sent out the problematic nib to him. Such is trust and impeccable service. Now the new nib writes glass smooth. This is what I paid for.

The medium nib, when adjusted wet, is really broad. Just something to note.

If I were to get myself a Pelikan, or any pen, I would get it from Appelboom. Is this considered advertisement or sharing pleasant experiences/things that work?

 

Unfortunately, Appelboom's prices are a little too high for me, it pushes the pen out of my price range. 

 

I'm not against paying a slightly higher price for a better service though. The writing desk offers the pen at a slightly higher price (around £340 as opposed to £300 on Cultpens) and they will test the nib before sending it so I could request a wet and smooth nib from them.

 

Thanks for the advice though!



#53 TheRealMikeDr

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 13:09

I think it is a miserable that one has to micromesh a nib at this price. Why are you paying so much to buy work for yourself to do? You should be paying to enjoy.

 

I don't even think we're talking about using micromesh - the first thing one should do with a new pen is examine the tines/nib under a loupe. Even a small variance in the alignment of the tines can make a nib feel like it has excessive feedback. While I completely understand that most would simply send the pen back - I think the further you get into the hobby the more you realize that most (more than 50%) new pens aren't 100% perfectly aligned - regardless of the brand - and need minor tweaking in order to write as smoothly as they can. The same can be said for ink flow. We all have a different idea of what a wet or dry pen is and adjusting for ink flow is something that can be done to most pens rather easily.

 

Again - I'm not suggesting the OP shouldn't have sent the pen back - you're paying good money and that's your right. But making minor tweaks to the nib is something you can learn to do which saves the trouble in many cases.



#54 sirgilbert357

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 13:36

 

I don't even think we're talking about using micromesh - the first thing one should do with a new pen is examine the tines/nib under a loupe. Even a small variance in the alignment of the tines can make a nib feel like it has excessive feedback. While I completely understand that most would simply send the pen back - I think the further you get into the hobby the more you realize that most (more than 50%) new pens aren't 100% perfectly aligned - regardless of the brand - and need minor tweaking in order to write as smoothly as they can. The same can be said for ink flow. We all have a different idea of what a wet or dry pen is and adjusting for ink flow is something that can be done to most pens rather easily.

 

Again - I'm not suggesting the OP shouldn't have sent the pen back - you're paying good money and that's your right. But making minor tweaks to the nib is something you can learn to do which saves the trouble in many cases.

 

 

I agree with all of the above. And I'd add that if you don't have a good loupe, you can usually figure out if tines aren't aligned by doing a series of carefully controlled lines on good paper. A left to right line in which the pen seems to scratch or drag (while the pen is smooth as butter right to left) usually indicates the left tine is slightly lower than the right, for example. But you have to use right angles in relation to the slit on the nib. The slit should make a 90 degree angle with the line you are drawing and be held perfectly level.

 

I usually tune nibs by feel and rarely break out the loupe at this point.


Edited by sirgilbert357, 19 September 2018 - 13:37.


#55 sirgilbert357

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 13:41

 

Just a couple of hours ago Cultpens confirmed they would refund the cost of the pen and also cover the cost of postage as they agreed I had received a defective nib. I'm fairly pleased with how they handled it so I wouldn't be against going back to them.

 

That is great news! Glad they took care of you. Also validates that what you experienced isn't a normal Pelikan nib.



#56 John545

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 16:13

 

That is great news! Glad they took care of you. Also validates that what you experienced isn't a normal Pelikan nib.

 

Yeah exactly, it wasn't just that I was being overly fussy lol



#57 John545

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 17:52

A Quick Update:

 

I was reading some posts on here where I saw somebody mention that Pelikan is rumoured to be releasing an M1005 Stresemann in the coming months.

 

This is really exciting for me, as I would have loved to get the M1000 but I just didn't like the look of it. I didn't like the green stripes and the plain black model is just a bit boring. 

 

So with that in mind, I think the best thing for me to do now is to wait and see if this M1005 does get released. Fingers Crossed!



#58 minddance

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 17:56

The m1000/1005 will write very different from the m80x series.

#59 TheRealMikeDr

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 18:04

A Quick Update:

 

I was reading some posts on here where I saw somebody mention that Pelikan is rumoured to be releasing an M1005 Stresemann in the coming months.

 

This is really exciting for me, as I would have loved to get the M1000 but I just didn't like the look of it. I didn't like the green stripes and the plain black model is just a bit boring. 

 

So with that in mind, I think the best thing for me to do now is to wait and see if this M1005 does get released. Fingers Crossed!

 

Very nice! It's always been a mystery to me why they limit the M1000 to the two colors. I've got a green one and truth be told it's a bit too big for me, both the nib and the pen, but the nib is special. Very bouncy and soft and super smooth. I hope you have better luck with that should you go that route!



#60 John545

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 19:30

The m1000/1005 will write very different from the m80x series.

 

That's kind of what I'm hoping for. The m805 was very stiff, and I've heard the m1000 nibs are more springy which should be nice.







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