Measuring Balance Of A Fountain Pen

[Precise]

FPN'ers sometime write that they like the balance of a pen. What do they mean?

 

There have been a few threads which discuss balance in objective terms, that is, where does the pen balance. Another term is the "center of gravity".

 

It's very easy to measure, just find the balance point.

 

 

Here is my Bexley Prometheus balanced on the square end of a chopstick. It balances about 76mm from the tip of the nib.

 

You might be tempted to quantify balance point as percentage of pen length. But I submit that the actual distance to the tip is what matters.

 

One old thread on this forum has a link to the CG of many pens, but the link is broken.

 

This page has the CG of some TWSBI pens

https://www.birminghampens.com/blogs/birmingham-blog/twsbi-center-of-mass-analysis

 

Here is my suggestion:

 

If balance is relevant to you, measure the distance from the tip to the balance point of a few pens that you think have good balance. You needn't photograph it. Of course, measure it the way you use the pen (posted or not posted). Next measure the balance distance of a few pens which you think have poor balance.

 

Share your measurements here.

 

Alan

Edited September 15, 2018 by Precise

[XYZZY]

I don't think it's about finding the center of gravity. If think balance (at least as I think of it) has to do with the pen IN MY HAND. Where i grip a pen isn't where you grip it. And if it was, where the back of the pen rests between in the book between thumb and index finger is going to be a different distance for me than it is for you. In other words, it's very personal.

[langere]

For me, the very best pens for balance in the hand - different from the balance point - are Sheaffer pens before 2010. The PFMs and the Heritage pens are especially impressive. Others are the "Balance" pen line.

 

What really matters is how it feels in the hand. And that depends, at least a little, on the size of the hand. But I would submit that the Sheaffers on the whole are the best.

 

Erick

Edited September 15, 2018 by langere

[Precise]

Thank you both. But it will be very interesting to measure the location of the CG for pens that feel good in your hand and for pens that don't feel as good in your hand.

 

So why not find their balance points?

[Glenn Atkins]

What would happen if you made the width of the chop stick half as wide? It would improve the measurement of COG, yes?

 

Glenn Atkins

[XYZZY]

Thank you both. But it will be very interesting to measure the location of the CG for pens that feel good in your hand and for pens that don't feel as good in your hand.

 

So why not find their balance points?

There's nothing wrong with finding the CG of a pen. Go for it. I do think it would be interesting. I just don't think that it determines how balanced it feels in my hand as opposed to your hand.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Standard and medium-large have to be measured posted, as designed.

Most Large pens are too long posted.....out side the greatly balanced thin Snorkel.

And IMO it is the feel in the hand, more than half way down a CC pen. A pen with guts, will balance further back............outside a lever pen.

It depends if one wants a light and nimble posted pen, or a thicker .....looking for a nice word for clunky...more stable un-posted pen.

And where one holds the pen......a posted large pen, could be comfortable resting in the pit of the web of the thumb, taking the weight off the nib, so it glides...............hummm.........got to ....my heavy Large Lamy Persona, does feel better posted resting in the pit of the web of my thumb....better than me feeling it's too short un-posted.

 

Different era's of the writers, will differ in what balance is....depending on what they grew up with.

 

Once when I was a 20 pen 'noobie' I looked for perfect balance....(pre me owning any Large pen of course) Each of my top three perfect balanced pens were totally different. The standard sized MB 234 1/2 Deluxe (52-54 only) was thicker girthed, with a brass piston fitting..so had back weighted. The Geha 725 was thin and medium long. The P-75 was thin and light for a silver pen. & #4 was a 400nn (it too different).....all posted of course.

 

It does irritate me that some folks who for religious grounds refuse to post a standard sized pen, complain a standard pen is too short....when posted it is longer than an un-posted Large pen. Better balanced too.

A good wax, will cure fear of Mars....that could happen from posting.

Standard and medium-large pens must be posted to have the great balance they have.

 

A crew of engineers stood for hours slapping their slapsticks, while the coffee grew cold to get that great balance. Parker had to beat the great Sheaffer New Balance.......Sheaffer had to beat the great P-51 for Balance........top of the line pens were always in war for best balance....until the cartridge came in.

[jmnav]

I don't think it's about finding the center of gravity. If think balance (at least as I think of it) has to do with the pen IN MY HAND. Where i grip a pen isn't where you grip it. And if it was, where the back of the pen rests between in the book between thumb and index finger is going to be a different distance for me than it is for you. In other words, it's very personal.

 

I don't think so. Your way to handle a pen can be very personal but my bet is that it will be more or less the same across pens, probably moreso the more "personal" your grip is. In the end, no matter your grip, you'll probably find that you tend to favour pens with their center mass at the same distance to the nib's point (no matter your grip, that's a constant: the nib's point will always be at the same distance to paper -zero, that is, so it seems a good reference framework).

 

...And even if I'm wrong, we can't know unless these measures become common to start with.

[jmnav]

There's nothing wrong with finding the CG of a pen. Go for it. I do think it would be interesting. I just don't think that it determines how balanced it feels in my hand as opposed to your hand.

 

I don't think that's the point as we already know what's a pen "sweet spot" is a very personal question: Fatter, thinner, longer, shorter, flexible, nail...

 

I think the interesting point is not finding how a pen "feels" to different people but how different pens will "feel" to a given person.

 

Let's say there's in fact a relationship between centermass and feeling. Say that, in your case, it happens to be at 75mm from nib's point. Then, if somebody tells you about a pen you don't know that its centermass is at 75mm, you'll know in advance it will feel right for you. That's very valuable in this era of "blind buys out of Internet".

[jmnav]

Standard and medium-large have to be measured posted, as designed.

 

No, they don't.

 

They should be measured as used. You'll already be aware that posted/unposted is a matter of tastes -I for one never use a pen posted. If it's too short for using it unposted, then I simply won't use it. It isn't related to being scared of damaging the pen but that, despite your claims, I never found a pen that I felt better balanced when posted. So given that there exists people that will use the pen posted or unposted, please offer both measures.

 

I think that should be obvious for anyone that shows some preferences for any ergonomic-related measure but, in case it wasn't, history also supports my view: in the early days of "scientific" ergonomics, focus was on finding averages in order to build things respecting those averages. In the end it happened that the pretended "average guy" didn't exist at all (I remember a study about fighter planes' cabin, but I can't find the reference now) so from then on, yes, averages still mattered, but they focused more on adaptability between ranges: that's why you now find, say, cars' cabins with regulable seats and steering wheels instead of the cheaper option of just designing them to averages.

 

On top of that, and that's specially true for hobbyists, it is the surrounding parafernalia which takes the greatest cost/effort, with the measures/photgraphs being the "cheap part". I.e.: it is a pet peeve of mine that hobby fountain pen photographers think so little about those users that may be interested in -gasp! the pen's usability. I mean, I'm of course grateful that they publish any photo to start with, but then, I find very annoying that, heck, "you take the time to get the pens, the scenario, the light, the camera... and then you fail to make one more photograph showing the pen uncapped or, when comparing two models, putting them just plain side to side capped/uncapped and aligned in a vanilla zenital composition? Oh, please, c'mon!"

Edited September 15, 2018 by jmnav

[Precise]

Cmon. Measure a few pens you think have good balance for you. And a few that you think are poorly balanced. I promise no harm will result.

[Bo Bo Olson]

If you don't like posting standard or medium-long pens....fine. I do though recommend it to others.

 

I still believe what I know is better...........but then again I didn't grow up in the Large pen era...thankfully.

[langere]

I agree with the OP. Measure the balance point, if you will. No harm done and we might actually learn something. I did not mean in my previous comment that I was against measuring.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Erick

[Buzz_130]

I’ll put my aviator hat on for a moment to help the OP out. His argument has merit. Of course, so do those posters with the proposal is balance is personal. Both are correct.

 

Finding the center of gravity of a device like a pen or an aircraft is important. If the design is off, the pen will be uncomfortable to use and will sit in a drawer. If the CG is out of limits for an aircraft, the aerodynamic forces will be beyond what the control surfaces can handle.

 

The key is limits and a range of acceptable values. For an aircraft, especially one that carries cargo, CG has a limit for takeoff and often a different one for landing. It’s a range. The same is likely true for pens, and this is where the OP’s theory has merit.

 

Measure the CGs of your favorite pens. The hypothesis is your hand prefers a certain range of balance in your grip. I think the OP is right. Yes, there are other variables in the equation, but balance is a show-stopper for me and my writing. Once the writer finds the range of values that works for their hands, the search for the grail pen may be reduced significantly.

 

Buzz

[praxim]

I agree with jmnav. If the CG is important then measure it the way you use the pen. I see zero merit in a notion that a pen ought to be measured posted if you do not use it that way (and why should you?). Pens are designed to be used with the cap removed. After that, it is up to you.

[jmnav]

If you don't like posting standard or medium-long pens....fine. I do though recommend it to others.

I would instead recommend try and see what feels better for them.

 

I still believe what I know is better...........

 

Better for you? No doubt. Absolutely better? No way.

 

but then again I didn't grow up in the Large pen era...thankfully.

No, sorry, this time I won't take your (valuable) experience as a defence for a "high grounds" attitude.

 

I happen to basically only ever used fountain pens as "ink device", no ball pens basically ever, so I can't be consider a, how you call them? something on the lines of brute force barbarians? And my personal "gold standard", not because it's special in any particular way but because it happens to be the model I'm most used to, is the Pelikan 400, a design basically unaltered since 1951, hardly "large pen era" days, as it is the case of my 1941' Hundred Year, or my 1938 Matador... and still I have always used them all unposted.

 

By the way, this posted/unposted issue made me think on another balance matter that is not going to be arisen by looking at a pen's centermass: the pen's moment of inertia.

 

It, of course, depends on the way someone holds the pen and the movements he uses for writing but, it is my bet that most of us move the pen when writing more or less like a pendulum, around a centerpoint. I would assume that there will be a relationship on percieved balance between the center of this pendulum movement and the centermass (maybe one feels best balance when these two points coincide?). But, on the other hand, even for two pens with same distance from centermass to nib's point, if one is larger than the other, and specially if one puts more weight on the distal side (therefore the posted/unposted issue) they must feel different as the one with higher moment of inertia will feel heavier to write with than the other (that this is an advantage or disadvantage will be, again, under the personal preferences' realm).

Edited September 16, 2018 by jmnav

[Karmachanic]

 

I don't think so. Your way to handle a pen can be very personal but my bet is that it will be more or less the same across pens, probably moreso the more "personal" your grip is. In the end, no matter your grip, you'll probably find that you tend to favour pens with their center mass at the same distance to the nib's point (no matter your grip, that's a constant: the nib's point will always be at the same distance to paper -zero, that is, so it seems a good reference framework).

 

...And even if I'm wrong, we can't know unless these measures become common to start with.

 

The pens in my temporary care share some characteristics - blackish and flat-topish, but are of differing sizes, shapes and weights. No two are the same. They are all held at an individual balance point that work for me, some higher than others. Some further from the nib than others. Piston fillers, eye droppers and converters. Delrin, Celluloid, Acrylic and Ebonite. There is no constant other than that they have nibs/feeds, hold ink and have screw-on caps.

 

I think you'll find that there are fountain pen users who hold pens in a manner that may be scientifically irrational, but personally satisfactory, without deleterious effect on society.

[jmnav]

I think you'll find that there are fountain pen users who hold pens in a manner that may be scientifically irrational, but personally satisfactory, without deleterious effect on society.

 

Which was exactly my point

 

The interesting question, I think (within this thread) is: there's a constant across pens in the way you hold them that can be derived from those pens's physical characteristics? Which is the complementary to the former question, there's a constant that can be derived from pens' physical characteristics that make them (for any given individual) more comfortable than others?

 

Some people prefer heavier pens, some lighter, some longer, some shorter, some post, some don't, some adjust his grip to the pen, some don't... is there a pattern deep there that can predict how a pen will feel to someone?

 

Answering -or not answering, such a question is doubtful to have any significant effect on society -deletereous or otherwise, but still, it can be fun a path to follow.

[Karmachanic]

I'll carry on in blissful ignorance, while wishing you a fruitful outcome to your research project!

[Bo Bo Olson]

Luckily, I pushed the wrong button and the post got erased. Not worth re-writing.

But, Jmnav, being new, perhaps you don't know about the ignore button.