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#21 pen2paper

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 00:13

I nearly dismissed this row of negative tags-topic since it wasn't related to Esterbrook worker-bee past history.
There was a heap of prejudice towards the poor representation in recent times.

Glad I peeked in to discover potential in a new direction.
In past discussions we insisted old Esterbrook nibs must adapt. Done + decent standard nib. (Same as my Edison nib unit).
Converter instead of replacing latex sacs is not tragic.
Then, the reason I'm potentially impressed, IF the spring cap works as competently as the 3776/Plaisir, preventing ink dry-out, This is the added reason to consider this as a daily Esterbrook worker-bee standard.

Acrylic is not my favorite, but the tortoise nicely captures the depth of celluloid.
Final point is the smooth writing Schmidt rollerball option.

No clue on price, but if somewhere between 3776 & Plaisir & all of the above is well manufactured, it may be an error to overlook this as a reasonable extension of Esterbrook + opportunity to plug in those old nib units.

It will be interesting to observe test-drive reviews.

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#22 Mongoosey

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 02:28

I'm impressed with these pens, too, especially after watching this review by Pens & Tea:

 

 

I think the form factor/shape is great, particularly unposted.  I think the overall design is lovely.  The dimensions hit my sweet spot.

 

I do think they push the envelope on price, but I do really like that inner cap seal technology, and that makes a big difference for me.

 

I do also wonder if they pre-tune the nibs like F-C and Edison and Diplomat.  From the above video review it seems like they may.



#23 Barkingpig

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 02:29

MSRP is $195 for the regular sized pen + $40 for the adapter, if you want to use your original Esterbrook nibs & $250 for the larger sized pen, available in black finish only.



#24 gweimer1

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 15:26

I'm going to chime in again.  There seems to be a feeling among many people that this new pen should be like the J pens.  Not even Esterbrook remained static in pen styles.  The J isn't even my favorite pen - that would be either the Dollar pens from the '30s, my Visumaster (yes I finally got one), or the Deluxe LK from the '50s.  I always say that Esterbrook was really good at capturing the feel of each decade.  Don't forget the squeeze fill M2, either.  I love them all, and it was the writing experience that stayed constant.

 

Modern pens tend to be larger than those 50 year old models.  I like the look of the new pen, and for anyone who wished that they had made an oversize way back when, they will now.  I may feel the price is a bit high, but I'm just cheap.   B)

 

Lastly. for anyone who might have, say, 200 or more NOS nibs, these pens offer a whole new opportunity.  :D



#25 pajaro

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 17:10

I think that the appeal of using the old Esterbrook nibs in the new pen is that you already have the old nibs.  If you have to buy old nibs, NOS or not, and then you have to spend further on an adaptor for the old nibs, it seems to me that this vitiates the use of the old nibs.  Except for a few specialist nibs, the Esterbrook nibs of old aren't all that good to use them rather than an included modern nib. 

 

The main benefit of the variety of the Estie nibs was economy and the opportunity to explore many types of nibs at modest cost, even today.  If you are just venturing into Esterbrook with this new pen, buying the adaptor and then buying NOS old Estie nibs appears uneconomical.  Better to just explore the Estie nibs with an old pen.  Of course, which moneybags here stresses efficiency or economy?  Lavish expenditure to make a statement.  I had not expected to see it in Esties.


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#26 JakobS

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 18:21

My concern is not that it looks like the J series pens, as I too prefer the Dollar or the SM Deluxe over them, but that it is made in the same ideal of what many of the Esterbrook pens were; well made economical pens that in their elegant simplicity, held up through the ravages of time as dependable everyday writers...

 

Can this be achieved at a price point lower than what is offered in today's world? There is certainly room between what the poor attempt at the first resurrection, and what this current attempt has achieved. I don't doubt these will be very usable pens....but will they really be Esterbrooks....


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#27 inkstainedruth

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 18:31

Agreed.  The blue one is kinda pretty.  But the price?  Not so much....

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#28 pajaro

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 21:18

My concern is not that it looks like the J series pens, as I too prefer the Dollar or the SM Deluxe over them, but that it is made in the same ideal of what many of the Esterbrook pens were; well made economical pens that in their elegant simplicity, held up through the ravages of time as dependable everyday writers...
 
Can this be achieved at a price point lower than what is offered in today's world? There is certainly room between what the poor attempt at the first resurrection, and what this current attempt has achieved. I don't doubt these will be very usable pens....but will they really be Esterbrooks....

Do other pen makers generally make the same pens they made in the 1960s and before?

Older Esterbrook pens were economy pens. I used them to learn about nibs, and then I kept them to loan out, so others could do the same. Except for the 2312/9312, I find most unattractive. The new one looks more attractive, especially without the backward compatibility adapter.

Price for an unknown commodity, not so much.

Edited by pajaro, 17 September 2018 - 21:20.

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

They took the blue from the skies and the pretty girls' eyes and a touch of Old Glory too . . .


#29 JakobS

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 23:09

Do other pen makers generally make the same pens they made in the 1960s and before?

Older Esterbrook pens were economy pens. I used them to learn about nibs, and then I kept them to loan out, so others could do the same. Except for the 2312/9312, I find most unattractive. The new one looks more attractive, especially without the backward compatibility adapter.

Price for an unknown commodity, not so much.

I didnt say that I wanted to have the same pens that Esterbrook made back in the mid 20th century, but the ethos, and that simply doesnt come through with these pens. Because in the end, buying the Esterbrook trademark is an attempt to use that ethos and history for profit, so either your honor it, or admit you are trying to profit from it with little regard toward it. They could of named this line "Kenro Pens" or "Kenro Pen Company", but obviously the name recognition is nowhere comparable to Esterbrook, so what responsibility does a company have when trying to profit from a such a name? And, should they be held to a higher standard when everybody knows they are trying to profit off the name because of the quality of pens/nibs made in Esterbrook's heyday?


Edited by JakobS, 18 September 2018 - 17:21.

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#30 Algester

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 07:51

for me its ok... its more MEH but the adaptor really does make it interesting rather than juggle through getting sacs every now and then
but yes I'm more leaning towards flat ends rather than the cigar shape

Edited by Algester, 18 September 2018 - 07:52.


#31 pajaro

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 18:14

I didnt say that I wanted to have the same pens that Esterbrook made back in the mid 20th century, but the ethos, and that simply doesnt come through with these pens. Because in the end, buying the Esterbrook trademark is an attempt to use that ethos and history for profit, so either your honor it, or admit you are trying to profit from it with little regard toward it. They could of named this line "Kenro Pens" or "Kenro Pen Company", but obviously the name recognition is nowhere comparable to Esterbrook, so what responsibility does a company have when trying to profit from a such a name? And, should they be held to a higher standard when everybody knows they are trying to profit off the name because of the quality of pens/nibs made in Esterbrook's heyday?

 

Do you think it's realistic to have that same Mid-Century ethos in a pen company today?  Things were so different then, and the ethos in making products was more to make money while offering a durable and good product than today's common ethos of maximum revenue extraction walletectomy.  Can the Esterbrook mindset be recaptured and infused in a company today?  Can any of the people today have any idea of the Mid-Century time?  Of what it was like to live then?  I am not confident of it.  Perhaps they can manage to make something minimally acceptable, though.  Times change, and, having been born in 1948, I see something of the difference in the times.  I wouldn't write them off yet.  It might take them a while to fine tune things. 

 

Other companies, like Parker for example, have changed to match the current times.  You can't get a pen made with the same ethos as a Parker 51 today.  It will be a far more costly Duofold or Sonnet or something else, a C/C pen, and that converter will not last as long as a 51's sac.  Inflation-adjusted, the pens might not be so expensive relatively as it looks, but the ethos has changed.  Times change.  I don't know if it's good or bad, but it is different.


Edited by pajaro, 18 September 2018 - 19:30.

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

They took the blue from the skies and the pretty girls' eyes and a touch of Old Glory too . . .


#32 ISW_Kaputnik

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 13:07

It's possible to make this more complicated than it needs to be.  Kenro evidently has the legal right to sell pens with the Esterbrook trademark, so there is no point in getting upset if they decide to do so.  But the use of the Esterbrook name is not an automatic plus, justifying whatever they want to charge.

 

Fountain pen people already pay what others would consider ridiculous prices for pens.  Even Jinhao fountain pens cost more than most people will every pay for a ballpoint.  But there's some method in our madness, and we have our own ideas for what to expect at a given price point.  I would not pay $156 for the small version of this pen, or $200 for the large, regardless of the name that it's sold under.  Maybe others would.  But calling it an Esterbrook doesn't change anything.

 

If you want a pen to try out vintage Esterbrook nibs, but don't like lever fillers, it's not hard to find an M2, which has a squeeze filler.  And the fact that the nib comes out makes these easy enough to flush in any case.


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#33 pajaro

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 21:38

It's possible to make this more complicated than it needs to be.  Kenro evidently has the legal right to sell pens with the Esterbrook trademark, so there is no point in getting upset if they decide to do so.  But the use of the Esterbrook name is not an automatic plus, justifying whatever they want to charge.
 
Fountain pen people already pay what others would consider ridiculous prices for pens.  Even Jinhao fountain pens cost more than most people will every pay for a ballpoint.  But there's some method in our madness, and we have our own ideas for what to expect at a given price point.  I would not pay $156 for the small version of this pen, or $200 for the large, regardless of the name that it's sold under.  Maybe others would.  But calling it an Esterbrook doesn't change anything.
 
If you want a pen to try out vintage Esterbrook nibs, but don't like lever fillers, it's not hard to find an M2, which has a squeeze filler.  And the fact that the nib comes out makes these easy enough to flush in any case.


I agree with this. If you don't like the new prices, there are vintage pens much less costly.

The newer Esterbrooks will reflect our current time. The vintage pens will reflect their time. No sense grumbling about it either way.

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

They took the blue from the skies and the pretty girls' eyes and a touch of Old Glory too . . .


#34 Kevan

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Posted 29 September 2018 - 02:50

I've seen it now too, pushed by all the online pen retailers with pretty pictures.  It's pretty, I'll give it that.  But $160-$200 for a resin C/C pen with the same dang Jowo nibs that are on 16,328,497 different pens.....sigh.  I'm so sick of this tactic from these manufacturers.  I know it's simple.  I know it's easy.  But if you're into pens at all, you probably have 20 Jowo nibs already.  I'm sick of 'em, and I wish manufacturers would do something else.  Is there anything preventing them from reaching out to the Japanese Big 3?  They all make steel nibs.  Would they contract to a Western company?  What about Santini in Italy?  Aurora?  

If I see one more Jowo nib on a new-release pen, I'll scream.  Give me something else, please.

 

…...Wishful thinking, I know.


Edited by Kevan, 29 September 2018 - 02:58.


#35 pajaro

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 04:08

Some Japanese company made the Solo for Cross.  Steel gold plated nib.  They would probably contract with a western firm.


"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

They took the blue from the skies and the pretty girls' eyes and a touch of Old Glory too . . .


#36 inkstainedruth

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 02:25

I have one of those Cross Solos -- it's a nice smooth writer, and I'd buy another one in a heartbeat if the price was right (mine has the added bonus as being a nice memento -- I bought it from the estate of a friend I lost too early).  Don't remember if mine has a plated nib or not, but it's still a very nice writer.  And very attractive (red with black trim).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

ETA: And even the ones I've seen at shows cost WAAAAY less money than the new Kenro "Esterbrooks" are.


Edited by inkstainedruth, 01 October 2018 - 02:26.

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#37 pajaro

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 02:51

I have one of those Cross Solos -- it's a nice smooth writer, and I'd buy another one in a heartbeat if the price was right (mine has the added bonus as being a nice memento -- I bought it from the estate of a friend I lost too early).  Don't remember if mine has a plated nib or not, but it's still a very nice writer.  And very attractive (red with black trim).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

ETA: And even the ones I've seen at shows cost WAAAAY less money than the new Kenro "Esterbrooks" are.

As far as I know, all Solo nibs are plated.  Rummaging in my desk today, I found a green Solo in the box, new and stickered.  This is what I have sometimes hated about NOS pens, that I have a hard time putting them into use.  I have two Estie M2s NOS. 


"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

They took the blue from the skies and the pretty girls' eyes and a touch of Old Glory too . . .


#38 PAKMAN

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 04:17

I briefly saw them in Dallas and thought they were very nice looking.


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#39 penzel_washinkton

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 12:01

After seeing a couple of reviews I have to say it is a very nice pen functionally and aesthetically, specifically I am very fond of the dark blue resin.

The only gripe I have (and probably many others) is the price



#40 Frank_70

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Posted 02 October 2018 - 00:42

For another perspective --

 

I'm not an Esterbrook aficionado, so I look at this pen somewhat differently.

 

I've been using fountain pens on a daily basis for more than 50 years. In that time I've acquired a selection of Pelikans, Omas, Auroras, Montegrappas, and a few Montblancs. Although I bought many of those pens a while ago -- pre-current price levels -- I look upon the Estie as a less expensive pen. And while I prefer a pistol filled pen, cartridge/converter pens have there uses, especially for travel. 

 

So I bought one -- in black with gold trim and a fine nib. And overall, I'm pleased.

 

The body is nicely finished acrylic/resin/plastic; the shape is pleasing; it's smooth writing; and the nib has just a hint of flex. Fit of everything is good, and the cap closes with some authority. it uses relatively easy to find standard cartridges. And for a modest, additional expense I can play around with original Esterbrook nibs. I see that I can also get some real gold nibs, but I'm not sure the pen is worth that additional expense for a modest, if any, increase in performance.







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