Last Resort!

[chunya]

I have had quite a few disappointments when trying to service old pens (mostly with casein CSs), so I'm used to pens either coming apart in a controlled way, or crumbling in an uncontrolled way, but I've never yet come across a pen that refuses to do either.

 

This Waterman's only needs a new sac, otherwise it's a nice pen, but it has been heated with a hair drier, umpteen times, and even been in an ultrasonic bath, and even with the greatest degree of force (to a point that a lesser pen may have cracked apart) applied with two pen pliers the section absolutely refuses to budge.

 

I'm beginning to think that the last person to open it must have used super glue!

 

[Charles Rice]

You might need a BIGGER hammer.

[chunya]

Sledge?

[Charles Rice]

Sledge?

 

Go for it.

[nigelg]

Perhaps if you could somehow freeze or chill the section and simultaneously heat the barrel the differential expansion/contraction might break the "seal" - hopefully without splitting at the barrel threads in the process.

Disclaimer: This is only a theory as I've not had to try this myself.

[Karmachanic]

Try the freezer for an hour.

 

edit: I must learn to type faster.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Karmachanic

[chunya]

Try the freezer for an hour.

 

edit: I must learn to type faster.

 

Is that for me or the pen?

 

I'll try anythings once ..... then maybe follow nigelg's method as well .....

[Seney724]

Before I begin please be aware that there will be responses saying what I am suggesting is restoration heresy and you absolutely should not do it. That said, it is something which a master pen restorer advised me to try when I was in a similar situation and, it worked!! I had about given up............

 

Try raising up the lever and flushing cold water (forceful jets of water) through the pen there. You can just hold it under the faucet or use the sprayer attachment on the faucet / sink. That will get water in and around the area(s) between the sac and the upper areas of the section/barrel interface. It will help dissolve any dried ink which is acting like a cement. Maybe also dislodge any ossified pieces of sac which are likewise making the dislodgement difficult.

 

The reason not to do this is if you do not get the pen opened up it will cause rusting of the internal components.... but what do you have to lose? As my mentor advised me, it was likely that the internal components were already rusted, so what did I have to lose.

 

For sure, it is worth trying before you resort to the hammer!! But, again, this is not a mainstream technique.

 

I used this in conjunction with more heating / soaking and it did the trick within a couple of hours. It enabled me to then restore a really nice vintage pen which I thought was a goner. And, it got the section off the barrel quickly enough that there was no problem with any rust.

 

Good luck!!

[fabri00]

If some idiot has used shellac or glue between body and section, it will be almost impossible to separate the 2 parts.

Sometime people said shellac is reversible, but for my experience when is applied to tight parts like section and body, even heating the 2 parts there are no chances to separate them.

[Seney724]

If some idiot has used shellac or glue between body and section, it will be almost impossible to separate the 2 parts.

Sometime people said shellac is reversible, but for my experience when is applied to tight parts like section and body, even heating the 2 parts there are no chances to separate them.

Absolutely!

I should have mentioned this in my reply. Flushing through the lever area will do nothing to rectify this!!

[chunya]

Many thanks for all of your suggestions. Sadly the lever barely moves, and any more force will certainly damage it. However, it might move enough so that if submerged then water could seep in and do its work.

I have a horrible feeling that it probably is shellac, but there must be an awful lot there as I've come across shellaced joints before and they've finally succumbed.

[Seney724]

More heresy from this end but I would, indeed, soak it. Not for days or even for overnight...but see if you can get the lever pulled up enough and held in that position so that you can get it submerged in cold water and let it seep in. The jets of water might also help to dislodge whatever is restricting its movement. Again, if it is already rusted, what do you have to lose?

[JonSzanto]

Another way to think of it, especially when people have been ragging on the use of shellac:

 

A section held in place by shellac is not permanent. It may take a long time and a lot of patient work, but shellac is not, in any way, shape or form a permanent bond.

I recently restored a 1929 Parker Duofold. It was in remarkably good condition and DID NOT want to screw things up by cracking the barrel, but that section was really, really, really in there. I used my heat gun and I kept careful track of the temperature so that I didn't overheat. I kept at it, occasionally putting the pen down and coming back later in the day or evening. I would warm the barrel and then, using only my hands, try to rock the section out (it was a Streamlined Duofold, so NOT threaded). When the pen is valuable to me I tend to not use section pliers, as I don't get the feedback as well. I never got as much as a 'click' or 'crack' as it started to loosen. I began to think someone had... Superglued it in place.

 

Approximately 2.5 days later, during Try #Umpteen, I felt something give, and then it simply came out. The bonds of the shellac had finally released with the requisite amount of heat, motion and incantations. I was left with a perfectly good pen, ready for a new sac, and very sore arm muscles from gripping the barrel and section so tightly. All it took was time and patience, not brute force or unorthodox methods. I'm glad I got into my Zen space on this one.

 

[pen lady]

Syd Saperstein at Pensbury Manor sells various pen potions, including Pen Potion #7 Pen-a-Trate, a section and frozen parts removal aid. I've used it to good effect for quite some time to help with barrel/section separation. It might be worth getting a bottle, though if some clod used shellac, who knows if it will help.

[Pete-M]

Chunya..Off top slightly. You of course seem very up on the types of glues etc.

 

What would you use to reglue this back up.?

[makas]

I never get in a hurry to open a pen anymore. I have broken a few just because I had to fix it now and I did fix a few for good! I don't say what you have to do or that someone else is doing something wrong because this is your pen. I will let you know what I would do and you can pick the way that you see fit. I think the issue you may have is that ink is what type of glue you are working against. I would put the pen in a glass of water just up to where you think the section ends. The water will work its way in and help to free things up if that is the issue. I like the idea of cooling it and then heat but the beige thing is take your time. Most fountain pens are 70+ years old so what is a few more days or weeks? I would say good luck but what you need is patience.

 

Take care

 

Mark

[praxim]

What sort of USC are you using? A bigger hammer might comprise a more powerful USC, if you know someone with one. Only that end needs immersion, not up to the lever box.

 

The pen is hard rubber? This means it can take reasonable heat, enough to soften shellac and some other glues. Heat soaking, with time for heat to penetrate and work, is key, and a preliminary freeze may break some bonds.

 

I apologise for teaching of egg-sucking here; just trying to be complete.

 

Something Jon Szanto said is also regarded as a "do not do this" but which I have used successfully on an occasion (also on an old Waterman). That is using a slight rocking/pushing motion on the section, moving your thumbs around it. The obvious risk is cracking the barrel, and the technique is to apply primary pressure as if to push the section out with only a very small side vector.

 

 

[eachan]

Shellac melts at a relatively low temperature. That's not what this is. Waterman is notorious for using some adhesive of their own manufacture on pens. The section is even milled on some pens to hold more glue. In my experience, patience and repeated applications of dry heat will eventually break the seal. I have dealt with many of these Waterman pens and they are frustrating but I've never allowed one to defeat me. Determination is the watchword!

[CS388]

A push-fit joint with shellac should release, eventually. Heat and movement and perseverance and some luck.

 

If it's another glue/substance, then I guess it's fingers crossed and anybody's guess.

 

Good luck.

[siamackz]

With pens that I have struggled with I have had success using a .001mm shim to get into the section barrel joint. Then soak, then use the shin again if needed. This opens the joint a teeny bit and allows water to get in. I soak all night, then try heat the next day. Then soak all night, then try heat the next day. 2-3 days. If not, then I turn up the heat. This too has worked a few times - I realised that the amount of heat was not sufficient to melt the adhesive. Last resort, I try the freezer trick - but I find this risky. All the best