Jump to content

The Fountain Pen Network uses (functional) cookies. Read the FPN Privacy Policy for more info.  To remove this message, please click here to accept the use of cookies






Photo

A Question From A Beginner To The Experts

fountain pens montegrappa beginner writing at a slant

  • Please log in to reply
39 replies to this topic

#21 Old Salt

Old Salt

    Old Salt

  • Premium - Emerald

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,753 posts
  • Location:Delaware
  • Flag:

Posted 07 September 2018 - 04:10

Oh dear.  That's a rabbit hole you're asking about.  If we show you inside, you may never find your way out. ;) There's no map to its tunnels, you just have to sort of explore your way through... :)
 
First thing to keep in mind is that the nib, when you use no pressure, glides along the paper on a little puddle of ink.  The ink is what "lubricates" the nib.  Thus, the ink can have a big impact on your writing experience.  (So can the paper.)
 
Next thing to keep in mind is that you can buy ink samples (you'll need a converter if that pen didn't come with one).  This will get you 2-4 mL of ink for $1.25 - $4 - ish (depends on store, ink, volume) to try out before you commit to a whole bottle.
 
Beyond that, inks have different properties which will influence which ink works best for you and your pen (not all inks work well in all pens - it's an individual sort of thing).
 
Some inks are "wet" - they flow easily from the nib.  Other inks are "dry" - they don't flow as easily.  Some inks are "lubricating" - they have some additive that gives the ink a smoother feel - these are generally (always?) wetter inks.  (Some nibs are wet (they let lots of ink through quickly), some nibs are dry (they only let the smallest amount necessary through), some are in between.  It's common to use a wet ink with a dry nib and vice versa - see above "not all inks work well in all pens" comment.)
 
Some inks are saturated (they put down a solid, vibrant line of color).  Other inks are less saturated and will often "shade" (something influenced by pen, paper, and ink) - where the ink color is lighter where the pen starts a stroke and darker where the pen lifts from the page.  Some inks (usually heavily saturated ones) will "sheen" - they have a metallic sheen sort of like oil on water in some color other than the ink color (e.g. blues that sheen usually sheen red).  If you google image search "fountain pen ink shading" or "fountain pen ink sheen", you should see some examples.
 
Some inks are permanent (waterproof or more), other inks are not (one drop of water and the ink runs like the feds are after it), some partially waterproof.
 
Some inks take a long time to dry, others dry quickly.  Some inks soak into the paper, bleed through, and / or spread out or feather (create little wisps that follow the paper fibers) and some don't (this is as much to do with the paper as the ink).
 
See? Rabbit hole. :)  But a fun one.
 
Next is paper. :D

Well done Liz. Very nicely said. Im going to keep a copy of this for next time Im asked.

As to wet and dry inks. Its not just the ink. Its the combination of ink, pen and paper. Juggling those three variables will lead you to your favorite writing experience. I might also ad that every pen has its own ink preference. Sometimes two identical pens will perform differently with the same ink.
Best way to feel your way through he ink maze is to order up a bunch of samples. They are very cheap especially with full bottles going for between $15 and $35. Some good brands in addition to waterman and Parker: Diamine, de Atramentis, Pelican, Aurora, Iroshizuku, Visconti...the list goes on. Check out Goulet pens and look for samples. Goulet also has some pretty informative videos on pens and inks.
Another place to poke around for info on inks is jetpens.com. Across the top of the site pull down the menue for Guides. Lots of info on pens and inks. Heres one on inks to start you off. https://www.jetpens....-pen-inks/ct/71
Come back and ask if you get stumped. Good luck, and happy writing.

Sponsored Content

#22 jar

jar

    A Vintage Pen has to be older than me.

  • Premium - Ruby

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,925 posts
  • Location:From Deep South Texas
  • Flag:

Posted 07 September 2018 - 10:47

Ah okay, what would be good test ink brands for both dry and wet? Any brands you can recommend?

Generally Waterman Blues are nice wetter inks while Pelikan 4001 Blacks are about as dry as you'll find.

 

But remember, using a fountain pen is more a symphony than a solo; the pen, the ink, the paper, the writing characteristics of the user, even the temperature and relative humidity at the time contribute to the final result.


My Sister's website :  Rose Hill Studios

My Website


#23 LizEF

LizEF

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,832 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 07 September 2018 - 13:03

Well done Liz. Very nicely said. Im going to keep a copy of this for next time Im asked.

 

Thanks, Old Salt!

 

@The_Beginner - the previous answers are good recommendations.  Once you try a couple samples, you'll either like them or not, and can adjust from there.  FYI, individual inks (not just brands) can be wet or dry.

 

My practice is just to pick colors that I think I'll like, order a bunch of samples and see if I like one of them enough to buy a bottle.  Since you're a newbie, I'd recommend deliberately picking inks from different brands (if the brand has a shade you like).

 

The Waterman and Pelikan 4001 recommendations are very safe - nice, no-worry inks.



#24 XYZZY

XYZZY

    Extremely Rare

  • FPN Supporter - Rhodium

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 268 posts
  • Location:WA
  • Flag:

Posted 07 September 2018 - 21:39

Ah okay, what would be good test ink brands for both dry and wet? Any brands you can recommend?

 

I've been using fountain pens for just a couple of months, so I'll let others propose inks.  But one thing to keep in mind is that many online shops will sell samples of ink, usually 2ml or 3ml of ink in a small plastic vial.  It's a much better way to test out many inks since it's much more affordable than buying entire bottles.  Just search for "fountain pen ink samples" and several online retailers will pop up. 

 

And welcome to the club!  :)



#25 sandy101

sandy101

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,693 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 07 September 2018 - 22:16

Skipping is a symptom of a number of problems FPs can have. Fortunately most of them are fairly easy to fix. 

 

1/ The feed is dirty and needs cleaned. New pens can come with left over gunk from manufacture and older pens dried up ink from previous users. Start bey dipping the nib and feed into water - this will be enough to loosen dried ink. If this doesn't work, take a convertor, attach it to the back and suck water into the feed, and then force it out again. Do this several tims until the water in the feed looks clearish.

 

2/ Air bubbles in the feed - the feed has air in it which means the ink from the cartridge is interrupted. Again, attatch a convertor, but suck some ink into it. If there's lots of air bubbles, force the ink out again into the bottle and suck more ink in. This will eliminate the air bubbles and ensure the feed is wet.

 

3/ ink isn't "wet" enough. Not all pens play well with all inks. Pelikan, green and red inks tend to be drier than others and this can result in problems. Caran d'ache & Waterman are wetter. Try different ink combinations and see how you go. Notr that a wet pen with an ink that's wet could cause otehr problems such as nib creep - which means you get a cap full of ink, instead of skipping.

 

4/ Wrong paper - some paper brands like certain pen & ink combos, others do not. It is trail and error, but try a different sheet of paper and you might get better results.

 

5/ filling method - not all pens like convertors and not all pens like cartridges. The convertor might be broken, or the cartridge or convertor might not be fully inserted. Try pushing the convertor/cartridge in by pushing firmly against a table, or something solid.

 

6/ nib needs some work. You may have some baby's bottom. If this is a new pen with a guarantee - send it back. Life's too short and let the vendor sort it out. If not, think about what the pen is worth. If it is a family heirloom or worth lots of money send it to someone for repair - or take it to your local pen show. If it was a cheap 2nd hand pen then look at fixing it yourself, but go gently. Again - there's stuff on you tube to show you, but micromesh and whatever else should be the last resort - not the 1st.  



#26 alexwi

alexwi

    If you're not inside, you're outside.

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 244 posts
  • Location:Hoboken, NJ
  • Flag:

Posted 07 September 2018 - 23:59

Doing the ink-picking online is likely to become quite the project.

 

I know that very few real stationery stores survived the internet, and those that carry fountain pens are even more rare, but if you are able to visit one, you owe it to yourself.

 

I'm fortunate to be within walking distance of one a few times a week and that's where I went when I wanted to get a new ink, and it was well worth the trip because I was helped by someone who actually helped me and was able to see a few hundred samples of how they look on paper (you can't trust the colors on your screen).

 

If that's not possible, order a SMALL sample pack, so you don't drive yourself crazy, and make sure that they are not from a single manufacturer. This way you'll get to see not just color differences but to experience how those inks behave with the pen and paper that you use.

 

I used to use Parker Quink and Waterman inks and they were OK, but for black I now prefer Aurora (very cheap and very black), and for blue I'm using one from Private Reserve and one from Noodlers, and they're working out quite well.

 

alex



#27 The_Beginner

The_Beginner

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 33 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 08 September 2018 - 13:05

Thank you all for this amazing wealth of information, i will process this and hopefully tell you guys & gals some promising results.

 

 

Thank you for reading,

 

Thebeginner



#28 The_Beginner

The_Beginner

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 33 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 20 September 2018 - 11:43

After conclusive testing of many samples thank you for mentioning that I could get sample test inks Monteverde was a very nice dry, while wet was smoother writing, the ink took a bit to dry for this and would somewhat bleed even through mead 5 star notebook paper thus I would recommend Dry ink for Montegrappa Fpens i hope this helps other for the record.



#29 Bo Bo Olson

Bo Bo Olson

    Pen Dust

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,802 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted 20 September 2018 - 21:54

I missed the OP is canting his nib. :rolleyes:

Do check to see if you have left eye dominance, and you cant/twist the nib to see the top.

If you are left eye dominant, then an oblique nib might be a cure........

 

Many folks are left eye dominant. Back when fountain pens were very often used in school, there was always someone in class who twisted his pen...odd. Canting his nib.

 

There are many modern oblique nibs that are stiff, so there is really little to no line variation....(compared to vintage German obliques.).......so there is a market for those who are left eye dominate.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#30 surprise123

surprise123

    Estate Find

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 796 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 20 September 2018 - 22:05

:W2FPN:  Welcome to the rabbit hol- er, I mean, Fountain Pen Network! 

 

 

 

 

 

That's a very nice first fountain pen. Keep in mind that most fountain pens, if not all, have a specified sweet spot dictated by the nib. If you were a *shudder* ballpoint user, I encourage you to learn to keep your fingers still and to utilize the untapped powers of your forearm and elbow to write. That's how you get nice, thicc handwriting that makes everyone confuse your written paper with a typed one. As one of the posts mention, the pen you have uses an earlier style of tipping, which is the rectangular tipping. Normally I would inspect it under a jeweler's loupe (cheep cheep chinese loupes work just fine) to see if any part of the tipping juts out at an odd angle, making your writing skip and leap when you move just a tiny bit. 

 

TBH, if you can get some macro pictures of different angles of the underside of the tipping there will be some people here that can help you.



#31 surprise123

surprise123

    Estate Find

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 796 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 20 September 2018 - 22:10

We all started out ignorant...and learning here is fun, there are no tests!!!!!

 

We are all having fun, so want you to have some too.

 

Soon you will have a small crayon box of colors to play with....that will grow with time.

We are living in The Golden Age of Inks. :thumbup:

 

Good to better paper for scribbling....90g or better is a must.......80g copier paper is for the copier.

Yes, a ream of 500 sheets of 90g paper does cost twice as much as normal copier paper....but a ream of 500 sheets can last you two to three years....if you don't get stupid and put it in the printer. :doh:

Ink Jet paper is a big no no...it is the Feather King.....so avoid it like the Plague.

Ah, yes, you adults get the luxury of choosing what paper to use. I must make do with W.B Mason inkjet paper. 



#32 BaronWulfraed

BaronWulfraed

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 770 posts
  • Location:Lowell, MI
  • Flag:

Posted 20 September 2018 - 23:45

Ah, yes, you adults get the luxury of choosing what paper to use. I must make do with W.B Mason inkjet paper. 

 

My condolences... Inkjet paper is the worst stuff around for fountain pens (glossy inkjet PHOTO paper may be better -- I've not tried, but also more costly at nearly a dollar a sheet in the larger sizes).

 

I'm actually cursing the company that makes my inkjet business card stock -- it used to be single sided, and the back side was good for writing little notes and reminders; now it is double-sided, and said notes fuzz out severely)



#33 WLSpec

WLSpec

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 240 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 21 September 2018 - 00:06

Ah okay, what would be good test ink brands for both dry and wet? Any brands you can recommend?

 

Nice pen! That's really something, so take good care of it. I would try Noodler's inks. Not too expensive and high quality.


Edited by WLSpec, 21 September 2018 - 00:13.

Can I put something down here?                                                                                            A small blog that I run in my free time​spectorpen.com


#34 Jhurt

Jhurt

    Dipped Only

  • Member - Bronze+

  • Pip
  • 9 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 21 September 2018 - 02:51

So much information! Thanks,all!

#35 Bo Bo Olson

Bo Bo Olson

    Pen Dust

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,802 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted 21 September 2018 - 11:15

One scribbles for fun at home...........if not sell the fountain pen. Gel pens are very nice.

 

In one scribbles for fun at home, better than ink jet paper is a must....can't have the ink and nib tango with out a good paper floor......and start filling your 64 crayon box of inks.

 

 

There are super fast drying inks....for """W.B Mason inkjet paper."""

 

I am one of the very few, who have never written on an ink jet paper. I had a laser printer...finally replaced after 15 years with a new one.

Ink Jet ink is very expensive and scribbling a book only needed B&W.

 

Just because one has not had the Black Plague don't mean I can't warn folks from it.

 

I did it all backwards...pens galore with few inks, then inks galore with few papers. I now have some 40 types of paper, but only lately got Clarefontaine Triomphe and Rhoda 90g.Still sort of 'noobie' in my mind when it comes to paper.

I still suggest getting a ream or a box of good to better paper with every three inks you buy. That way one's not behind the power curve. Soon one has a collection of papers to match the nibs and inks one has.

 

S-123, Why are you forced to use inkjet paper? I thought you were in school. Or do they print tests on it?


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 21 September 2018 - 11:26.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#36 The_Beginner

The_Beginner

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 33 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 21 September 2018 - 11:49

:W2FPN:  Welcome to the rabbit hol- er, I mean, Fountain Pen Network! 

 

 

 

 

 

That's a very nice first fountain pen. Keep in mind that most fountain pens, if not all, have a specified sweet spot dictated by the nib. If you were a *shudder* ballpoint user, I encourage you to learn to keep your fingers still and to utilize the untapped powers of your forearm and elbow to write. That's how you get nice, thicc handwriting that makes everyone confuse your written paper with a typed one. As one of the posts mention, the pen you have uses an earlier style of tipping, which is the rectangular tipping. Normally I would inspect it under a jeweler's loupe (cheep cheep chinese loupes work just fine) to see if any part of the tipping juts out at an odd angle, making your writing skip and leap when you move just a tiny bit. 

 

TBH, if you can get some macro pictures of different angles of the underside of the tipping there will be some people here that can help you.

Could you show/give me an example of the type of picture you are looking for sir as i'm not too great with camera's



#37 The_Beginner

The_Beginner

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 33 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 12 November 2018 - 22:14

I would like to report the results that i found when testing the inks so that another may find this useful, when writing with the montegrappa nerouno fp i found that the ink brand diamine, caused my writing to be smooth as if you were sliding down a frictionless slide. This is the ink brand i would recommend to use.



#38 Bo Bo Olson

Bo Bo Olson

    Pen Dust

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,802 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted 12 November 2018 - 22:56

It all depends on what you want the nib to do, slide effortless, get nice old fashioned two tone shading.

Grab on to the new Sheen ink ring.

Then there is what paper.............a slick paper and a wet and well lubricated paper could cause the pen....if it is 'butter smooth', to slide right off the paper.

 

After I understood gel pens better, I find many 'noobies' are looking for a gel pen experience in color they are use too in a fountain pen. :headsmack: :bunny01:Took me a while to get that, in I'd hit fountain pens again, before they started putting gel re-fills in give away ball points over here in Germany. We are often a decade behind the states in certain things. 

 

I find vivid supersaturated inks boring, others use to only supersaturated inks find shading inks, 'wishy-washy' or pastel. (helps to use better papers.)

One needs both inks, and some of either will have sheen on the right papers.

 

Then in three months or half a year, with three or four more pens, what you want now will not be what you want then.

 

Do go to Ink Reviews, it has an index, look in the index for Ink Reviews by Sandy1 :notworthy1: :thumbup:, our Ink Guru. She uses 4-5 normal nibbed pens of different widths, on 4-5 good papers that one could get if they put their minds to it.

It is often astounding how different the same ink is, with a different width nib on a different paper....sometimes one would not believe it is the same ink. :happyberet:

 

 

If you still rotate your nib, you could get an oblique for your second or third pen.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#39 LizEF

LizEF

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,832 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 12 November 2018 - 23:20

I would like to report the results that i found when testing the inks so that another may find this useful, when writing with the montegrappa nerouno fp i found that the ink brand diamine, caused my writing to be smooth as if you were sliding down a frictionless slide. This is the ink brand i would recommend to use.

 

Congrats, Beginner!  It's always nice to find some inks that work really well in your pen. :)



#40 Bo Bo Olson

Bo Bo Olson

    Pen Dust

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,802 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted 13 November 2018 - 12:12

That is only the start of the Ink Adventure, I have 70-80 inks and that is nothing to brag about, there are those here with samples that have 300......but you do want different pens and different papers, to have fun with...to make the inks Dance.

I can remember thinking there was no need for more than 10-12 inks. :lticaptd:

Thought the same about pens....7-8 would do.........................actually there are some 45 different nib widths and flexes.....35 would be a minimum.....if one don't get distracted by Brands.

I do not suggest going top end at the start...............LE MB's, would have you looking down your nose at classics like the P-51 or Snorkel, or the many once flagships.....or even a solid Pelikan 400.

Look for classic standard and medium-large pens with different width and flex of nibs....then work one's way up in size..........IMO. Those are pens of a size to post and one gets grand balance from them.

 

:angry: :gaah: :wallbash: :rolleyes: I was just over looking at one ink on Ink Reviews and got bitten big time by another....that I really, really want...... :happyberet:  :bunny01: 

 

Well the very first time one hits a golf ball at the driving range, real high and long, one is hooked, so it is with fountain pens.

 

The Golden Rule of fountain pens, is take your time...........................you can have 'fun' studying fountain pens, inks and papers before splurging. It's fun in there is no test.

Of course you will want the classics....as soon as you find out which they are.... :P


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: fountain pens, montegrappa, beginner, writing at a slant



Sponsored Content




|