Jump to content

The Fountain Pen Network uses (functional) cookies. Read the FPN Privacy Policy for more info.  To remove this message, please click here to accept the use of cookies






Photo

A Question From A Beginner To The Experts

fountain pens montegrappa beginner writing at a slant

  • Please log in to reply
40 replies to this topic

#1 The_Beginner

The_Beginner

    NOS (New Old Stock)

  • Member - Silver

  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 06 September 2018 - 02:02

Hello, 

I'm a new fountain pen user currently I was given as a gift from a colleague a Montegrappa nerouno medium size  My question was at times when I'm writing I write at a slight slant and the pen would stop feeding ink and I couldn't continue to write unless I readjusted the angle, so I was wondering why this was and how I could mediate this. The ink I'm currently using is quink from Parker (black)

 

I'm sorry if this is posted in the incorrect location, I'm still trying to navigate through the forums, if it can be moved please do so or let me know thank you.

 

Thank you for reading,

 

Thebeginner



Sponsored Content

#2 alexwi

alexwi

    If you're not inside, you're outside.

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 169 posts
  • Location:Hoboken, NJ
  • Flag:

Posted 06 September 2018 - 03:34

Hi The_Beginner!

 

All fountain pens have a sweet spot. It's a narrow combination of slant and orientation of the pen against the paper that for some pens is more narrow and for others less.

 

If you "rotate" writing instruments while you write, you will need to pay more attention when using a fountain pen. It's a matter of un-learning an old habit if that's the case with you. People who write a lot with pencils tend to do this, and this may very well be what's happening in your case.

 

When a pen all of a sudden stops depositing ink on the paper and then writes again an instant later, and its orientation hasn't changed, it's said that the pen "skips," and this is due to an ink flow problem.

 

If you're able to get a hold of another pen and the same happens, it is _possible_ that it's your hand (of course, it's not unheard of for two pens to be crappy). 

 

To test, do some random writing paying deliberate attention to how you hold the pen and try to ensure that it's on its sweet spot all the time. This way we can rule out skipping and take it from there.

 

Alex



#3 The_Beginner

The_Beginner

    NOS (New Old Stock)

  • Member - Silver

  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 06 September 2018 - 04:47

Ah, unlearning okay thank you alex i'll start testing now and inform you of my results thank you for your speedy response.

 

 

Thank you for reading,

 

TheBeginner 



#4 mitto

mitto

    Ancient Artifact

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,153 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 06 September 2018 - 05:25

One doesn't always find pen(s) that write in every directions. :)

You didn't say whether the pen was new or was a used one as well what shape the tipping was ground. A pen with round ball type tipping on the nib would most probably write even if turned slightly right or left.
Khan

#5 The_Beginner

The_Beginner

    NOS (New Old Stock)

  • Member - Silver

  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 06 September 2018 - 05:35

The pen is new, the nib I'm presuming due to it being new is pristine condition and at the nib, it looks like a small protruding rectangle with a line down the middle. I've attached an image as well.

Attached Images

  • montegrappa_nerouno_fp_all.jpg

Edited by The_Beginner, 06 September 2018 - 05:39.


#6 Honeybadgers

Honeybadgers

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,946 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 06 September 2018 - 06:35

that's one hell of a gift for a new FP user.

 

unlearning bad habits is a huge part of using fountain pens. The result is not just an improvement in your writing with all writing instruments, but also a more comfortable grip for writing in long periods of time.



#7 The_Beginner

The_Beginner

    NOS (New Old Stock)

  • Member - Silver

  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 06 September 2018 - 08:00

Thank you honeybadger I will have to pass on your compliments as i had not known this was a good brand. As for writing style, what is the correct way of holding/using a Fpen.

 

 

Thank you for reading,

 

Thebeginner


Edited by The_Beginner, 06 September 2018 - 08:29.


#8 Bo Bo Olson

Bo Bo Olson

    Ancient Artifact

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,581 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted 06 September 2018 - 10:06

Behind the big index knuckle, at 45 degrees, or if the pen wants, at 40 degrees at the start of the web of the thumb......or if it is long and or heavy let it rest in the pit of the web of the thumb at 35 degrees. Let the pen decide where it wants to rest because by forcing it, you must add pressure to holding a fountain pen.

With a lighter grip, let the pen rest where it will.

Hold a fountain pen very lightly, in no pressure is needed, in you do not have to turn a ball in the tip of a ball point. Hold the pen like it is a baby featherless baby bird.

:angry:  Do not make baby bird paste.

 

IF posted like the picture, the pit of the thumb is where it should be, if not posted, and I think your pen is a Large one, it will rest higher.

If held there there will be a small puddle of ink the pen skates in. One gets the full advantage of the half round tipping. No pressure at all is needed....it's not a ball point.***

If held like a old style pre-gel ball point before the big index knuckle at 60-70 degrees or more, the ink puddle becomes tiny.............and one gouges little grand canyons in the paper. That also promotes scratchy.

 

 

***I too was ruined by 4 1/2 decades of ball point use. Using a ball point is like plowing the south forty with out the mule. Not that I held it before the big index knuckle, but I held on for dear life, like I was hanging on a cliff with one hand. I was Ham Fisted. :gaah:

I'd say the vast majority of us who came into fountain pens or came back after decades of developing muscles with a ball point were or are.  'Forefinger up' method of holding a fountain pen will give you a lighter Hand.

 

A new pen must be cleaned....yours is a cartridge/converter pen, I would guess. I don't have that brand. So you need a rubber baby ball syringe to clean the pen and converter quick and easy. Makes it very fast to clean out old ink when you change inks.

Same with the converter, if you are using it. Converters often have vapor lock and must be fiddled with or replaced with one with a little plastic ball, or one adds a small steel ball or spring......you have lots of time to read about that stuff.

 

Look up Tripod grip....that is where the thumb is bent and at 10:00 the forefinger is bent and at 02:00 and the pen rests on the end joint of the middle finger.

I changed from that Classic Tripod, in because of the bend of forefinger and thumb =....lots of pressure is added....that makes taking months to learn a light grip.

 

Look it up and try it, so you know how. How ever, I find the 'forefinger up', method of grasping a fountain pen  better, takes three minutes and is an automatic light grip.

With this way of grasping a fountain pen, if the pen is thin or thick, it does not matter. Many who use the Tripod complain about thin pens......(Newer Generation folks use to Large fat pens, in fat pens were very uncommon in the '50-60's out side the not well selling Sheaffer PFM...Pen For Men and the MB149. Large and thicker pens came in after fountain pens were not used all day at the work place writing 8 hours a day where a light nimble standard, or medium-long pens were favored. IMO Large came in for Bling, note taking at the Conference Room table. Many companies that had made standard sized pens stopped, making what sold, Large pens for occasional use...................now though Large pens are being thought by the younger folks as 'standard' and they find standard pens too small............wouldn't be if they were posted. Some folks refuse to post standard sized or medium-long pens as they should be, and then have the nerve to complain about it. :happyberet: )

 

Help! How Do You Hold Your Fountain Pen?

 

Richard Binder has a site :notworthy1: , he was once one of the Guru's of pen repair, nib grinding and so on. His site is the Bible of fountain pens, nibs, filling systems, good advice about inks, and so many beautiful :drool: :puddle:vintage pens..................it will take you at least three full days to read it.

 

It use to be 96.8% of all I knew about fountain pens.....now it is only 92.3%...after all one should have learned something in 10 years. :)


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 06 September 2018 - 10:10.

Everyone says poor Mozart dead at only 36. None say poor Mendelson, dead at only 38. His family only allowed him to start at 20, but before, musicians use to come to the Mendelson garden to steal the music of Mendelson and his sister. A good artist also, can still buy prints of his famous Scottish drawings in Scotland.

 

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany      Info on Bock nibs

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

Pens/inks/paper on hold for a year....new addiction pocket watch chains. :happyberet:


#9 jar

jar

    A Vintage Pen has to be older than me.

  • Premium - Ruby

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,473 posts
  • Location:From Deep South Texas
  • Flag:

Posted 06 September 2018 - 11:55

Also learn to write with your whole arm instead of just your wrist and you will find writing more comfortable and reliable.


My Sister's website :  Rose Hill Studios

My Website


#10 sirgilbert357

sirgilbert357

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,851 posts
  • Location:Texas
  • Flag:

Posted 06 September 2018 - 18:07

Also learn to write with your whole arm instead of just your wrist and you will find writing more comfortable and reliable.

 

 

Jar is right, you can write for hours if you use the correct arm writing technique. This can be hard to master though, and your handwriting's legibility will likely take a hit as you relearn how to write this way, LOL. But crawl before you run, eh?



#11 LizEF

LizEF

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,688 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 06 September 2018 - 18:23

The pen is new, the nib I'm presuming due to it being new is pristine condition and at the nib, it looks like a small protruding rectangle with a line down the middle. I've attached an image as well.

 

Take a look at the closeup of the nib.  That slit down the middle divides the nib into two tines.  The tips of both tines need to be touching the paper in order for the ink to flow out onto the paper.

 

Thus, if you rotate it too far to the right or left, so that only one tine is touching the paper, it won't write.  It will also, likely, feel rather scratchy.

 

That's not the only reason for a pen failing to write, but it's something you need to be conscious of as a newbie, until it's just a habit to keep the pen aligned correctly.

 

(NOTE: This is the same as was already said above, just said differently.)



#12 The_Beginner

The_Beginner

    NOS (New Old Stock)

  • Member - Silver

  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 06 September 2018 - 19:23

Ah, thank you all for this amazing advice i can't wait to try it all thank you all.

 

 

Thank you for reading,

 

The beginner



#13 Bo Bo Olson

Bo Bo Olson

    Ancient Artifact

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,581 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted 06 September 2018 - 20:24

We all started out ignorant...and learning here is fun, there are no tests!!!!!

 

We are all having fun, so want you to have some too.

 

Soon you will have a small crayon box of colors to play with....that will grow with time.

We are living in The Golden Age of Inks. :thumbup:

 

Good to better paper for scribbling....90g or better is a must.......80g copier paper is for the copier.

Yes, a ream of 500 sheets of 90g paper does cost twice as much as normal copier paper....but a ream of 500 sheets can last you two to three years....if you don't get stupid and put it in the printer. :doh:

Ink Jet paper is a big no no...it is the Feather King.....so avoid it like the Plague.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 06 September 2018 - 20:26.

Everyone says poor Mozart dead at only 36. None say poor Mendelson, dead at only 38. His family only allowed him to start at 20, but before, musicians use to come to the Mendelson garden to steal the music of Mendelson and his sister. A good artist also, can still buy prints of his famous Scottish drawings in Scotland.

 

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany      Info on Bock nibs

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

Pens/inks/paper on hold for a year....new addiction pocket watch chains. :happyberet:


#14 rdh

rdh

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 559 posts

Posted 06 September 2018 - 20:42

One other thing you might want to check is how you hard you press on the tip. Ball pen and pencil users press down hard. With a fountain pen, it can just float over the paper with no pressure. The grip discussed above can help you do this. It is just learning how to do something differently. Experiment and when you get it right, you will understand why there are fanatic fountain pen users.

Dave

#15 Sailor Kenshin

Sailor Kenshin

    Heart of sword

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,744 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 06 September 2018 - 22:15

Parker Quink Black is also a pretty dry ink. You might try something from Waterman.

#16 The_Beginner

The_Beginner

    NOS (New Old Stock)

  • Member - Silver

  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 07 September 2018 - 00:58

what's the difference in inks?


Edited by The_Beginner, 07 September 2018 - 00:59.


#17 LizEF

LizEF

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,688 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 07 September 2018 - 01:22

what's the difference in inks?

 

Oh dear.  That's a rabbit hole you're asking about.  If we show you inside, you may never find your way out. ;) There's no map to its tunnels, you just have to sort of explore your way through... :)

 

First thing to keep in mind is that the nib, when you use no pressure, glides along the paper on a little puddle of ink.  The ink is what "lubricates" the nib.  Thus, the ink can have a big impact on your writing experience.  (So can the paper.)

 

Next thing to keep in mind is that you can buy ink samples (you'll need a converter if that pen didn't come with one).  This will get you 2-4 mL of ink for $1.25 - $4 - ish (depends on store, ink, volume) to try out before you commit to a whole bottle.

 

Beyond that, inks have different properties which will influence which ink works best for you and your pen (not all inks work well in all pens - it's an individual sort of thing).

 

Some inks are "wet" - they flow easily from the nib.  Other inks are "dry" - they don't flow as easily.  Some inks are "lubricating" - they have some additive that gives the ink a smoother feel - these are generally (always?) wetter inks.  (Some nibs are wet (they let lots of ink through quickly), some nibs are dry (they only let the smallest amount necessary through), some are in between.  It's common to use a wet ink with a dry nib and vice versa - see above "not all inks work well in all pens" comment.)

 

Some inks are saturated (they put down a solid, vibrant line of color).  Other inks are less saturated and will often "shade" (something influenced by pen, paper, and ink) - where the ink color is lighter where the pen starts a stroke and darker where the pen lifts from the page.  Some inks (usually heavily saturated ones) will "sheen" - they have a metallic sheen sort of like oil on water in some color other than the ink color (e.g. blues that sheen usually sheen red).  If you google image search "fountain pen ink shading" or "fountain pen ink sheen", you should see some examples.

 

Some inks are permanent (waterproof or more), other inks are not (one drop of water and the ink runs like the feds are after it), some partially waterproof.

 

Some inks take a long time to dry, others dry quickly.  Some inks soak into the paper, bleed through, and / or spread out or feather (create little wisps that follow the paper fibers) and some don't (this is as much to do with the paper as the ink).

 

See? Rabbit hole. :)  But a fun one.

 

Next is paper. :D



#18 The_Beginner

The_Beginner

    NOS (New Old Stock)

  • Member - Silver

  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 07 September 2018 - 02:37

From what i'm getting though is that wet is better than dry, am i correct to assume this?



#19 LizEF

LizEF

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,688 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 07 September 2018 - 02:56

From what i'm getting though is that wet is better than dry, am i correct to assume this?

 

That depends on the user and on how wet. :)  If you try various samples, you'll get a feel for what you like in your pen.



#20 The_Beginner

The_Beginner

    NOS (New Old Stock)

  • Member - Silver

  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 07 September 2018 - 03:34

Ah okay, what would be good test ink brands for both dry and wet? Any brands you can recommend?







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: fountain pens, montegrappa, beginner, writing at a slant



Sponsored Content




|