Hats Off To Goulet Pens

[ErrantSmudge]

 

Sorry Bob, but I think you are reading more into this comment than was meant.

 

I also agree with most here that the original comment was offensive and IndigoBob is owed an apology.

 

Even if you set aside the drug reference, the comment was clearly intended to mock another member of the forum simply for posting something positive. It is clearly not in the spirit of the forum.

 

 

On the topic of the thread, I've purchased from Goulet several times and have found them great to deal with. One time I ordered a set of Lamy nibs and one was defective. The customer service team went out of their way to make sure I got a replacement ASAP. They have also been great answering pre-purchase questions about their products. Their website is also the best of any online pen store.

Edited September 2, 2018 by ErrantSmudge

[brgphilly]

Im glad that Bob spoke up. From my perspective, nobody has the right to decide what another should feel. Also, addiction can be tragic to both individuals and families. I am accepting of somebody calling themselves an addict, but I am angered by somebody calling or inferring that somebody else-especially a stranger-an addict. And then saying, even nicely and well intentioned, come on lighten up Very insensitive behavior. I am not surprised that Bob was offended.

[TSherbs]

I must have touched a nerve. I am sorry to all.

 

For the record, I am very familiar with addiction and recovery. Among my cohort, there is much humor, sarcasm, and compassion. Usually, it is easy to navigate. But the internet sucks. There was no mockery intended by my joke. So many people call their desire to acquire pens an addiction, here and elsewhere. People even name their websites "addict" or "habit" etc. Pen fotos are called "penporn" and accessories are called "paraphernalia." People make puns about sex, food, drugs all the time here. It's one of our ways of staying humble and keeping a critical eye on our own desires.

 

On this note, I have long ago started a serious thread here on how to resist the "urge" and "desire" to acquire more and more. When I am serious, it is clear, usually. When I am joking, it is clear, usually.

 

I apologise for the muddier case here.

[TSherbs]

Im glad that Bob spoke up. From my perspective, nobody has the right to decide what another should feel. ....

People are free to see humor where they please, too, then, right?

 

I don't mind Bob showing his anger. And I don't mind drug jokes. Both can coexist.

[TSherbs]

Wow, that's quite cynical and narrow minded of you. I don't appreciate your derogatory comment whatsoever in minimizing my praise to a denigrating metaphor of drug use.

 

You have reviewers like SBRE Brown and the Pen Habit, ...

Do you understand that "Pen Habit" is a reference to drug use?

 

I have been around this forum a long time and have made thousands of posts. Sometimes, tone is lost on the internet. Sometimes I am too glib. But if pen use and drug use comparisons are going to upset you, then I think that you are going to have a tough time on many threads here. I just now had one pop up on my screen with the words "Tea Addict" in the title. I won't give you advice, Bob, but I know that my remark about praising Goulet for turning you on to pens is the least of what you are going to encounter here at FPN. But hey, if my glibness and banter are objectionable, feel free to block me. I won't take it personally. And I like Goulet, too, by the way. I have been following them since 2011, and I bought my first modern fountain pen from them. I am wary of their marketing push, however, and take their "sales" and "deals" and self-promotion with two doses of salt. But you are free to like them all you want!

 

Carry on.

[TSherbs]

Even if you set aside the drug reference, the comment was clearly intended to mock another member of the forum simply for posting something positive.

 

So, my hyperbolic use of vocabulary and the wink at the end of the line wasn't enough to cue you that I wasn't mocking, but rather just having a laugh? The wink was a gesture of comradery and understanding back to the original post (which was lost to everyone who got their hackles up for I-know-not-why). Bob even ended up calling the moderator, who understood my tone, "incompetent"! Wow.

 

and then this: ..."simply for posting something positive"? So, to be clear, are you being serious with that claim? I "mocked" him "simply for being positive"? I find the idea so preposterous that I have trouble taking it seriously (depicts me like a Grinch of the pen world). I do have a bit of a potbelly, but I don't live alone and I don't have a dog, and I don't sneak down people's chimneys.

[TSherbs]

And by the way, anyone is free to pm me if they want to have a private conversation about this or any other topic. It's weird to come back after some hours to hear everyone talking about you and not actually to you.

[Honeybadgers]

 

I also agree with most here that the original comment was offensive and IndigoBob is owed an apology.

 

Even if you set aside the drug reference, the comment was clearly intended to mock another member of the forum simply for posting something positive. It is clearly not in the spirit of the forum.

 

 

On the topic of the thread, I've purchased from Goulet several times and have found them great to deal with. One time I ordered a set of Lamy nibs and one was defective. The customer service team went out of their way to make sure I got a replacement ASAP. They have also been great answering pre-purchase questions about their products. Their website is also the best of any online pen store.

 

I disagree 140%. Implying that we can't poke lighthearted fun at each other is just absurd. It was an innocent joke taken far beyond its context and it's kind of shameful that people are digging in their heels to try and justify their initial offense rather than just laugh it off as a joke they didn't get at first.

 

And part of that is because literally everyone agrees that Brian's company is an absolute paragon of good business practices. They've gone so far above and beyond for me as a customer that it makes my head spin.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Honeybadgers

[Honeybadgers]

Dear Honeybadgers,

 

If he was making a joke, it was a bad joke. Bob, was well within rights to be offended. And your attitude and insensitivity frankly offends me. You might chill out if you want to, but I will never know. I am blocking you.

 

 

Why do people even go online when they are just so sensitive to every possible perceived sleight? The internet has been a boon for so many things, but everyone really needs to take a step back and think about how they interact with other people. Is what you are saying online what you would say to another person's face? if the answer is no, rethink what you're about to say. Online you have the benefit of choosing exactly what you want to say, and taking as long as you need to say it. And yet, here we are, with knee-jerk reactionary at-hominem attacks?

 

Yes, tone gets lost in text, but you, as a reader should try to interpret the speaker's tone, and start with doing it in a way that isn't initially insulting to you. Because I can say with unequivocal sincerity that the "omg you offended me" posts are far more poisonous, toxic, and directly, personally insulting than the poking fun ever will be. I don't know how many people I've seen respond to relatively gentle sarcasm or cynicism with the most vile, hateful, and poisonous bile I've ever seen, all in the name of "YOU'RE TOO NEGATIVE" or "THAT JOKE WASN'T FUNNY."

 

I even played along with the joke in a way that defended Bob. This was that "hang in there" cat poster from the 1990's level offensive. In other words, it wasn't.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Honeybadgers

[Honeybadgers]

 

Sorry Bob, but I think you are reading more into this comment than was meant.

 

The collection of fountainpens has been compared to an addiction for years here on the forum.

 

Nowhere did Tsherbs mention drugs. One can be addicted to many things except drugs.

 

And one of the vloggers you so reverentially mention uses a reference to this addiction in his name (pen HABIT)

 

And indeed for many of us it sometimes feels like an addiction.

 

 

 

D.ick

 

Hell, even Matt admitted that he kind of got addicted in a way, spending way, way more money than he should have on the hobby in a very short period of time (something I'm just as guilty of)

 

If you REALLY want to talk shop about drug addiction as "not funny" then you are talking to a paramedic in a major city in the peak of the opioid crisis, so buckle up. My mother was an alcoholic for years. I deal with REAL addicts that nobody else will even touch, just to make sure that they're breathing when the 911 dispatcher asks them to, every. Single. Day.

 

Even most addicts are willing to make jokes about addiction. It doesn't marginalize them unless you are belittling them as people (i.e. calling them worthless) for their choices, which is where I personally draw the line (nobody is above recovery). But poking fun at something means you've come (or are trying to come) to terms with it. Putting it on a pedestal is shallow and insipid and never deals with the problem.

 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by Honeybadgers

[ErrantSmudge]

 

I disagree 140%. Implying that we can't poke lighthearted fun at each other is just absurd. It was an innocent joke taken far beyond its context and it's kind of shameful that people are digging in their heels to try and justify their initial offense rather than just laugh it off as a joke they didn't get at first.

 

I could perhaps see your point, except for personal experiences I have had. One time, with friends in person (long before the Internet), I made a distasteful joke (which won't be repeated here) that was intended to be ironic, but was interpreted with geniune offense. I thought my friends, being friends, would understand that it was in jest but they made clear to me in no uncertain terms there were offended and expected an apology. I nearly lost them as friends that day.

 

That was the same day I learned that you don't get to decide whether or not someone is offended by your words. Your audience does, and if they decide its offensive it's offensive. Attempting to explain to them why it's not offensive, or worse yet calling them insensitive is simply disrespectful to them.

[pararis]

This is the sort of thing that makes me sad they outlawed dueling. That would prevent and solve a lot of Internet squabbles!

 

And if you can't take a joke, please ban/block me too! Either that, or meet me at sunrise, your choice of weapons!

[IndigoBOB]

Look... the sensitivity I reacted with is contextual, and I don't care how you label it nor do I regret being sensitive. It's not a bad thing in this context. I think it's good, and I think you boys and girls are too cowardly to handle it. You can harp about overgeneralizes of expected or acceptable behavior and all that stupidity, but you guys are failing to miss the point specific to this thread and I'm not surprised given your weak justifications that fail to acknowledge the context of what is actually addressed in this thread and especially in the initial post.

 

The subject matter centered around posterity and younger persons. Those individuals who may likely, and I would like have the opportunity to for to be able to read this thread and not have to weave through the immaturity and unnecessary explicit subject matter that is thoughtless and tenuously related to the main topic of what is addressed.

 

Now, you boys and girls can tout your experiences all you want, but when you truly become a man or a woman, and let go of this egotistic justification for your lack of impulse control, you'll find that what truly matters is the cultivation of the younger generations to succeed us... For to provide and cultivate opportunities of individuality the likes of which a fountain pen truly becomes an instrument of. And that comes down to love or the lack of it.

 

Now, I've heard your barks and your thunder and I dare say that none of it is rain to help the flowers grow, but simply justification for your impulsiveness you have so wonderfully displayed for me . None of your words resound in any meaningful way. Your glibness, your facile justifications, your impetuousness, and your lack of perspective of such a central them denotes an inferiority of mediocrity I advocate against especially with regards to this thread.

 

You have set a perfect example of the importance of what I initially addressed. It wasn't how I expected, but heck, what the he!! lol. I'll adapt. These kinds of words: those of praise, of acknowledgement of merit and hard work, of success and appreciation... These words bring out cowards like you, snakes like these, and what it takes to overcome such lack of good as demonstrated by those who are against you on this.

 

It took love and appreciation to write that initial post, and I'm not surprised to have curmudgeons pounce on it while failing to realize the point and what they are indeed doing.

 

So if the younger generations read this, let it be an example of what it's like to face the cowards of the world, no matter how pleasant a facade they put up, no matter what excuses they make.

 

This is how you use your words. This is how you make the flowers grow among the thunder and the lightening of the dogs barking at the light that is love. And they won't see this. They can't with minds so noisy.

[Honeybadgers]

 

I could perhaps see your point, except for personal experiences I have had. One time, with friends in person (long before the Internet), I made a distasteful joke (which won't be repeated here) that was intended to be ironic, but was interpreted with geniune offense. I thought my friends, being friends, would understand that it was in jest but they made clear to me in no uncertain terms there were offended and expected an apology. I nearly lost them as friends that day.

 

That was the same day I learned that you don't get to decide whether or not someone is offended by your words. Your audience does, and if they decide its offensive it's offensive. Attempting to explain to them why it's not offensive, or worse yet calling them insensitive is simply disrespectful to them.

 

I mean to make no direct insinuations about you with this statement, so please do not take offense, as I know nothing of the context that you described and I will cede that it was entirely possible your response to that situation was reasonable and rational. And any reference I use of "you" is directed at everybody here, not you personally.

 

Many times the reaction to the offensive subject is what causes the outrage. Simply telling someone "hey buddy I found that really offensive and you need to apologize" in front of a bunch of people can instigate a schoolyard response of digging in heels and biting off of noses to spite faces. People feel they were attacked for something they meant no offense initially, and that makes them defensive. They get defensive, and feel justified in lashing back out or digging in deeper. Putting someone on the defensive is how you instantly lose your point.

 

Coming from someone whose entire job is based around de-escalation of people who are everything from suicidally depressed to psychotic and violent to off their face on drugs and hissing at me like hannibalector, here is some advice for online (and offline) de-escalatory methods of dealing with things that offended you. For further reference, I also have a diabetic, autistic, transgender 17 year old teenage foster kid at home, so this minefield is where I live.

 

First, try to see it from the other person's perspective. Was it genuinely offensive? Why?

 

Second, to what degree are you willing to let it slide? Has this happened before? Everyone, myself included, occasionally says something really insensitive and stupid, and if we jump down everyone's throat every time anything is said, we lose rational discourse. The majority of the time, if someone just says something that offends, you do not need to address it, unless they continue to press the issue or do it repeatedly, or it was so distasteful that you really would rather not ever risk being exposed to it. The latter is a really, really extreme situation that you should use sparingly.

 

Third, consider your response. Never, ever insult someone for saying something that was not rooted in hate (racism and stuff like that is the obvious exception. If you're being an outright bigot, you deserve what you get. But an innocuous joke does not deserve the same level of response to someone being anti-semitic or transphobic) as a part of your rebuttal. Your goal is to get someone to change their perspective on why the joke or comment was distasteful to the audience (you) and you will not get that from a bully pulpet. "Calling them out" in front of others is precisely how you get into a big old honkin' internet brawl. If you thought someone cross the line, pull them aside or bring it up later in private (i.e. a PM online) and tell them that you appreciated that they didn't intend to offend, but in the future you would prefer it that they not behave that way around you. Online, you have the benefit of being able to choose your precise words. Is what you're saying stooping to the level or dipping even below that of what you're trying to address? If so, don't say it.

 

Constructive discourse, not knee-jerk reactionary shouting matches are what healthy communities are based upon. I hear people make relatively ignorant, stupid comments (and stupidity does offend me when it impacts the lives of other people) all the time, but I know that shouting them down or just avoiding them altogether is not healthy for them or me. If I have an appropriate opportunity to broach the issue in a calm, quiet, constructive way, I will. If not, I will usually ignore it. But above all, I am willing to forgive. Even if I don't get an apology. NEEDING an apology before forgiving is not forgiveness. Being willing to simply drop it and move on is. For example, nothing said here will impact any of my future interactions with anyone in this thread negatively.

 

The problem with the internet is that everyone treats every single statement as if it were the last helicopter out of Saigon. This is not the case. We should all learn from this example.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Honeybadgers

[Honeybadgers]

Look... the sensitivity I reacted with is contextual, and I don't care how you label it nor do I regret being sensitive. It's not a bad thing in this context. I think it's good, and I think you boys and girls are too cowardly to handle it. You can harp about overgeneralizes of expected or acceptable behavior and all that stupidity, but you guys are failing to miss the point specific to this thread and I'm not surprised given your weak justifications that fail to acknowledge the context of what is actually addressed in this thread and especially in the initial post.

 

The subject matter centered around posterity and younger persons. Those individuals who may likely, and I would like have the opportunity to for to be able to read this thread and not have to weave through the immaturity and unnecessary explicit subject matter that is thoughtless and tenuously related to the main topic of what is addressed.

 

Now, you boys and girls can tout your experiences all you want, but when you truly become a man or a woman, and let go of this egotistic justification for your lack of impulse control, you'll find that what truly matters is the cultivation of the younger generations to succeed us... For to provide and cultivate opportunities of individuality the likes of which a fountain pen truly becomes an instrument of. And that comes down to love or the lack of it.

 

Now, I've heard your barks and your thunder and I dare say that none of it is rain to help the flowers grow, but simply justification for your impulsiveness you have so wonderfully displayed for me . None of your words resound in any meaningful way. Your glibness, your facile justifications, your impetuousness, and your lack of perspective of such a central them denotes an inferiority of mediocrity I advocate against especially with regards to this thread.

 

You have set a perfect example of the importance of what I initially addressed. It wasn't how I expected, but heck, what the he!! lol. I'll adapt. These kinds of words: those of praise, of acknowledgement of merit and hard work, of success and appreciation... These words bring out cowards like you, snakes like these, and what it takes to overcome such lack of good as demonstrated by those who are against you on this.

 

It took love and appreciation to write that initial post, and I'm not surprised to have curmudgeons pounce on it while failing to realize the point and what they are indeed doing.

 

So if the younger generations read this, let it be an example of what it's like to face the cowards of the world, no matter how pleasant a facade they put up, no matter what excuses they make.

 

This is how you use your words. This is how you make the flowers grow among the thunder and the lightening of the dogs barking at the light that is love. And they won't see this. They can't with minds so noisy.

 

Again, Bob, as someone who even played to the joke in a way that defended you, you have taken this way, way, way out of context and made a mountain from a mole-hill. This is not worth making such a huge deal over. Let's just move on.

[TSherbs]

Ok.

 

 

.

Edited September 2, 2018 by TSherbs

[Honeybadgers]

 

Brian Goulet would be sad if he saw this thread.

[TSherbs]

Don't bother. Alert someone to close this thread. I am done with this topic and this poster.

[1nkulus]

That is a lot of typing, a one liner lead to a thesis.

 

It's the internet, no matter what you say there will be likes and dislikes.

The opinions expressed on a forum have no relevance on your real/daily life.

 

Everybody agrees that GP is a friendly establishment, which was the gist of the original post.

 

WE are ALL addicts to an extent on this forum, which would definitely make pen/ink sellers 'dealers'.

ANY sort of collection/hoarding is an addiction.

Edited September 3, 2018 by 1nkulus

[IndigoBOB]

I think it's a good thread.

 

I think it is shows something real Tsherbs and Badger display perfectly. It's a usual disappointment. I expressed my sentiments and voiced them accurately and they were disrespected further.

 

I'm sorry you guys have nothing better to do than troll a thread, cuz that's all you guys did. You brought negativity from the very beginning to something positive, it wasn't appreciated, and that just fueled your trolling more.

 

If you had started this thread that would have been different story. But the selfishness of you guys have made a poor example of what this community is about and we have that in a wonderful snapshot of what it takes to grow this community beyond such selfishness.

 

Speak your peace and leave and quit trolling this thread. It isn't about you, it's about that original post, which is the purpose of starting a thread to orient discussion of such, the likes of which you simply trolled.

 

So like I said, speak your peace, and please leave.