I Love Noodlers, But...

[jpk]

Hi,

 

this is my first review. As I say: I love Noodlers, but...

 

I don't want to repeat what so many other reviewers wrote about Noodlers pens, I just want to add my personal experience. I will try to focus on the "but" part, but I don't want to bash them as I really like them for all the well known reasons.

 

 

As you can see on my photo I have 1 Neponset, 3 Ahabs, 2 Konrads, 1 Ebonite Konrad, 2 Creapers and some spare feeds / nibs. I bought them from various online sources (USA, UK, Europe). I love them all,

 

but #1 is about the feeds: none of my vintage nibs fit, and even if the diameter / shape of the nib would fit, the feed would be too loose for them to be securely fitted. The reason was always that the vintage nib was thinner than the stock steel nib. I asked for slightly thicker feeds but I received the answer that I can't buy such. I bought Noodlers feeds as spare parts from various sources: they were even looser than the stock feeds. So basically the spare feeds are unusable even if used with the original nibs. Heat setting is easy, I had good results both with hot water and fire. Some of the feeds didn't deliver enough ink flow for flexing, so modifying the channel was required. One vintage Waterman ideal #2 14k semi flex nib I could fit with a modified vintage feed into a creaper.

 

but #2 is about the nibs: almost 50% of the pens did have unusable nibs. I tried to tune them: even aligning the tines and re-grinding did not help in some cases, others did write well after some fiddling. So I bought some spare Noodlers nibs: again the same, some of them unusable even after extensive tuning. Out of the parts you see on the photo I could eventually get all pens to write well, but this took some time. Some nibs have too wide gaps between the tines but at the same time too narrow tips, some skipped, some are too wet, some too dry, some are scratchy, some have a baby bottom... But some are just awesome out of the box. Flexing is as expected possible but with some of the nibs you would almost cut the paper, at least you would see ink on the back side regardless of the paper quality. Again some nibs are perfect, and some can be tuned to work well. I managed to fit a Jowo fine BF #6 nib with some heat setting, this pen is one of my favorite.

 

Inks: I used many inks including some Noodlers inks. My favorite ink is Noodlers Kiowa Pecan.

 

Conclusion: I needed all what you can see on the photo plus some time to make all pens work well. But the spare feeds are unusable, they are too thin, I had to work with the stock feeds which came with the pens. I had success with a Jowo BF #6 nib (the non BF nibs are too much curved) and one vintage flex nib with a non-Noodlers feed.

 

Desire: I think feeds should be available with slightly thicker diameters so that the user could modify the feed for any nib thickness. This would allow us to fit many vintage nibs into a Noodlers by just sanding the feed to a tight fit.

Edited August 26, 2018 by jpk

[TSherbs]

You clearly don't mind tinkering with pens, so Noodlers is perfect for you. My Noodlers nibs have worked better than yours. And the Goulet nibs have worked well. To expect a company to manufacture additional feeds to fit nonproprietary nibs is asking too much. But I guess you never know.

[jpk]

To expect a company to manufacture additional feeds to fit nonproprietary nibs is asking too much.

 

Hm... But weren't they proud about the interchangeability of the creaper with standard #2 vintage nibs? Maybe they changed the design: the section seems to have some sort of "terracing" with a slightly smaller diameter at the deeper section end which clamps the end of the feed. I don't know if the first creapers were like this or not. The recent Ahabs have a notch for the nib: here a report that this was not the case with early Ahabs...

[jandrese]

I cannot recall Nathan mentioning nib swaps with vintage nibs and I can't see blaming Noodler's when some old nib from another manufacturer long departed does not fit. Indeed, you received a totally reasonable response essentially stating as such when they informed you that special feeds just for your nibs were not available. Imagine the production hassles. I'd never ask say Pelikan to make special feeds to fit my Sailor or whatever nibs.

 

I suggest making your own feeds from ebonite rod stock. Or you could by the vintage pens that were designed for your particular vintage nib.

 

Regarding the nibs keep in mind that these are inexpensive fountain pens. Some of the nibs may require some tinkering but in my experience only some small change is necessary. In fact, that is the kind of tinkering Nathan had in mind. Tinkering within the constraints of the design, not fitting a square peg into a round hole as it were.

 

I see you are new to the forum, and we look forward to posts from you in future. Critique of products is welcome but this is unreasonable.

[jpk]

I cannot recall Nathan mentioning nib swaps with vintage nibs

 

I recall there are videos where he encourages the user to swap nibs and that the creaper was designed with vintage nibs in mind, for example here.

 

I can't see blaming Noodler's

 

Blaming is not what I had in mind, I thought I made that clear in my initial post...

 

Some of the nibs may require some tinkering but in my experience only some small change is necessary.

 

At least it was not easy for me to make the nibs work, and with some (in my opinion too many) I was not successful. I read that with early pens a spare nib was included...? This was not the case with mine, plus the questioned changes in design: is that a step away from the interchangeability? Just asking, not blaming.

 

you received a totally reasonable response essentially stating as such when they informed you that special feeds just for your nibs were not available.

 

I accepted this answer. But I bought spare feeds: these were too lose for the stock nibs because they have a smaller diameter than the stock feeds which came with the pens. I think it's reasonable to wonder if there are thinner feeds there also could be thicker ones. In fact there are, just not available to order...

 

Tinkering within the constraints of the design, not fitting a square peg into a round hole

 

Is that what I did...? I might have wrong expectations, so please correct me. I thought these pens "wanted" to be sustainable. In the mentioned video he explains that other pen companies sell proprietary nib systems in order to prevent nib interchangeability. I was impressed because I like that he wants to free the user from this kind of things. This just does not apply very well to the pens I got: nibs thinner than the notch (or the tier in the creaper) are excluded from interchangeability. If it is true (and even if it's not true) that the notch and/or tier were design changes I think the question about interchangeability is reasonable.

 

I suggest making your own feeds from ebonite rod stock.

 

I plan to do this, but again it would be much easier without tiers and notches. Still I don't understand what kind of benefit the tiers and notches offer in regard to interchangeability with vintage nibs. After all it's a well known fact that many vintage nibs are thinner...

Edited August 26, 2018 by jpk

[IndigoBOB]

Noodler's pens are some of the most hit-or-miss pens on the market because they are honestly cheap indian pens.

 

If there was any positive selling point of these pens Nathan Tardif seemed to jump on it and magnify it and that included being able to fit nibs from other companies, including vintage, which he does mention in some of his videos...

 

...but from my experience as well, that isn't quite so. You might be able to fit a Jowo #6 in an Ahab or maybe a #5 or vintage #2 in a nibcreeper, and then IMO they may be worth it. Besides that, I honestly would recommend them.

 

My own personal success rate with their pens is just as low, and they can be troublesome. It's not uncommon to hear about a bad time with a Noodler's pen.

 

I like Noodler's and many of their inks, but I wouldn't recommend their pens unless you are a tinkerer at heart, wanted to fit a Jowo in an Ahab, or you like extra feedbacky poorly made nibs at a %50 success rate of being just usable , and that's on a good day.

 

For the price of all those pens you could have gotten more than one really nice gold nibbed pen.

 

I recommend saving your money and getting 1 great pen instead of 10 barely good pens, half of which are unusable OOTB.

 

That's unfortunately Noodler's pens for you: Gimmicky and cheap

Edited August 26, 2018 by IndigoBOB

[jpk]

You might be able to fit a Jowo #6 in an Ahab or maybe a #5 or vintage #2 in a nibcreeper

 

Yes, Jowo #6 fit into Ahab and Konrad, but be sure to use the BF type... My creapers did not accept any of my vintage #2 nibs, or at least I have yet to find a vintage nib which is as thick as the stock nib.

 

For the price of all those pens you could have gotten more than one really nice gold nibbed pen.

 

You are right! BTW I went into the store and tried some EUR 500+ pens by the well known big German piston filler companies: either too smooth and lacking any feedback. Or too scratchy. Quality seems to be not consistent, and the plastic barrels feel cheap. The design tries to make it look expensive. The Jowo steel nib I put into a Konrad out performs them easily. Gold nibs by Faber Castell and Diplomat were in a different league though: perfectly well defined, smooth, but with the right amount of a pencil-reminiscence feedback...

Edited August 26, 2018 by jpk

[Honeybadgers]

I've only had one of about ten noodlers nibs that didn't work properly from the box.

 

I don't know what vintage nibs fit the ahab and konrad (my ahab is a permanent zebra G nib housing now) but the creaper, charlie, and boston safety have taken every #2 nib I've ever put in them. Some more deeply in others, but never so hard that they wouldn't work properly. The waterman ideal #2 is basically MADE for the boston safety pen.

 

If you like feedback, JPK, I would point you towards japan.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Honeybadgers

[jpk]

the creaper, charlie, and boston safety have taken every #2 nib I've ever put in them.

 

Good to hear! Either your #2 nibs are much thicker than mine or the inside of the section indeed was changed. Does your creaper have a cylindrical opening for the feed without any tier or notch?

 

If you like feedback, JPK, I would point you towards japan.

 

Thanks for the hint! I have some limited experience with Japanese pens, including a Sailor with a 21k music nib and a Pilot CH 92 with a 14k M nib. The Sailor is special, but the Pilot was extremely scratchy, especially in the up strokes, and so dry that it was almost unusable. I managed to tune it to my taste and got it a bit wetter and smoother while keeping a good amount of shading. The Sailor is smooth and has subtle feedback without any scratchiness. This kind of feedback I appreciate most: it is just like the very soft noise of lightly touching the paper with the skin of your finger, nothing more. Maybe that is not exactly what Japanese pens are known for...?

[SoulSamurai]

I have yet to find a vintage nib which is as thick as the stock nib.

 

Perhaps what's needed is some sort of thin plastic shim to make up the difference in thickness?

 

I have several Noodler's pens; I love the Creaper but I find their resin pens impractical due to drying issues. If they had a Creaper in acrylic or ebonite I would be sold. I have a couple of Neponsets, I use one with the music nib for writing on cards.

[MG66]

How has the Neponset worked out for you?

[jpk]

Perhaps what's needed is some sort of thin plastic shim to make up the difference in thickness?

 

Yes, this would be possible also with metal shims or with shellac on the feed or inside the section. Shims would be a bit of a hassle to adjust every time you clean / disassemble the section...

 

 

 

How has the Neponset worked out for you?

 

To be honest it needs way too much pressure to flex, even more than the Ahab / Konrad flex nibs. Normal writing also needs more pressure but ink flow is nice and feels somehow different: not too wet but really confidence inspiring. My nib is a little bit asymmetrical, the middle tine is not perfectly centred, and although it is smooth it makes constantly clicking noises during normal (i.e. non-flex) writing. The pen itself is nice, some details are better designed than the Ahab: the O-ring sealing the piston with the section sits in an extra slot, a much cleaner design than in the Ahab, and the section does not have a notch inside for the nib, also the section grips shape is better, and the feed has a 3-grooved channel. The Neponset is like an improved and bigger Ahab. Some reports on the net state that the Neponset has a nib collar screwed in the section, mine doesn't, it's just a simple friction fit which I consider an improvement over the Ahabs / Konrads notch fit.

[TSherbs]

.... I consider an improvement over the Ahabs / Konrads notch fit.

My Konrads have no notch. ??

[ReadyFireAim]

Noodler's Creaper ground down to XF & KWZ turquoise

 

Edit...The slit length of the nib you want is 19mm and the exposure from the section is 20mm.

Shim with a small triangle of mylar paper or order an oversize feed from FPR & sand down to fit.

I spent over 8 hours trying to figure out how to do it the first time.

 

Or you could buy a FPR Himalayan + #5.5 ultra-flex nib and be done with it.

I like them both.

[Corona688]

I also note that there's many modern nibs so thin they have difficulty fitting in standard nibholder, let alone a pen.

 

I'm not too fancy. A layer of masking tape on the nib suffices. Just the big flat part of course.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Corona688

[jpk]

My Konrads have no notch. ??

 

Mine look like this:

 

 

A layer of masking tape on the nib suffices. Just the big flat part of course.

 

Flex nibs would compress the tape and get loose sooner or later, but with non-flex nibs it can work well.

 

Noodler's Creaper ground down to XF & KWZ turquoise

 

Nice, thanks!

[TSherbs]

 

Mine look like this:

notch.jpg

 

There is no such cutout notch in my two Konrads. Just a round section opening and the nib can have any orientation.

[DasKaltblut]

The original Konrads had no notch. Now acrylic Konrads have no notch, but the regular ones do.

[Honeybadgers]

my ahab and konrad both have the notch, but again, I have no problem with any nibs I've put into them. They even swallow that nightmare that is the conklin omniflex as well as zebra G dip nibs.

[IndigoBOB]

I've only had one of about ten noodlers nibs that didn't work properly from the box.

 

I don't know what vintage nibs fit the ahab and konrad (my ahab is a permanent zebra G nib housing now) but the creaper, charlie, and boston safety have taken every #2 nib I've ever put in them. Some more deeply in others, but never so hard that they wouldn't work properly. The waterman ideal #2 is basically MADE for the boston safety pen.

 

If you like feedback, JPK, I would point you towards japan.

 

 

I envy your success lol.

 

I have some luck with the Charlie's. I think the Nibcreeper and Ahab could be descent with nibs swapped in.

 

Even with heat setting, my charlie's have the potential to leak out the cap if they aren't kept nib up at all times, so I'm not in a rush to use them outside of a desk pen.

 

I brought a Charlie with me to a seminar and the cap was filled with some ink that had leaked into the cap from being left horizontal in my back pack and I almost ruined that carpet with Kung Te-Cheng.

 

But I tried the Ebonite Konrads: The first 2 of 3 had cracked piston mechanisms OOTB since they use a thin cylindrical portion that is rather fragile. I would love it if those pens could fit a Jowo, but they aren't compatible anymore.

 

The 3rd I got from the refund of the first two finally worked, and the flex nib is kind of fun, but for practical writing I found them slow and draggy and not good for me if I had to write faster, which is virtually all the time.

 

I tried to purchase non flex Noodler's nibs, but those nibs are abysmal.

 

If I was purchasing a starter pen for my nieces and nephew or picking up a gift for someone I couldn't get them a Noodler's pen unless they specifically asked and even then I'd be hesitant and would try to get the one I knew could swap in a descent nib or I'd simply pick them up a better pen.

 

If they wanted a Neponset, I'd just buy them a Ranga instead.

 

I'm just not a fan.