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Architect Vs Hebrew Nib?


32 replies to this topic

#21 DasKaltblut

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Posted 15 September 2018 - 01:28

I'd be ok with a steel nib, at least more willing to try one before spending on a gold nib of a type I've never used.


These have actually started to appear, but I don't know anyone who has tested them. Here's a cheap Chinese Architect:

https://www.ebay.com...en/232810560159

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#22 Jamerelbe

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Posted 15 September 2018 - 01:51

Architect / Hebrew / Arabic grinds are tricky: for maximum effect, they need to be ground fairly flat, and placed precisely on the paper.  More than for cursive / italic / stub grinds, the angle at which you hold your pen (relative to the page) makes a huge difference to the width of the stroke you lay down.  I have one of Bobby's (office_supplies_pen on eBay) architect grind, and a "bent nib" on a Delike Alpha, both of which have a more pronounced "architect-grind-like effect" - they're not a bad compromise if you want something kind of "off the shelf" - but for the real deal you need to get a nib custom ground.

 

I've really enjoyed the nibs I've had custom ground for me to an Architect grind by fpnibs.com in Spain - and compared to the American nib customisers who provide a similar service, their prices are very reasonable.  

 

I haven't tried this on a gold nib - not convinced the added expense would be worth it.  Just check out the range of nibs fpnibs.com offer, see if they've got something that would swap onto an existing pen... and drop them a line!



#23 Karmachanic

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Posted 15 September 2018 - 06:35

 

I'd be ok with a steel nib, at least more willing to try one before spending on a gold nib of a type I've never used. 

 

As per Jamerelbe, Pablo at FPNibs can grind one for you. He'll need  a photo of the angle at which you hold your pen. Photoscribe phone app works for this.


Edited by Karmachanic, 15 September 2018 - 06:37.

"Simplicate and add Lightness."


#24 JonSzanto

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Posted 15 September 2018 - 07:05

 

Music nibs are often broad stubs, often with three tines, and all are designed to write perpendicular to the page, you're supposed to hold them sideways too, to create the downstroke lines of a musical note. Only japan still makes them anymore, apart from the noodlers vishnu victory nib

 

Please note that Franklin Christoph offers a #6, 1.9mm, 3-tine music nib,

As someone who spent quite a few years actually doing music copy work, most good music manuscript is facilitated by a stiff nib, not a flexible one. While 3-tine, music nibs are a common parlance, for actual music work they are not necessary, only a variety of italic nibs of various width. for different music sizes. I used wider nibs for copying individual parts, where the notes (and beams, dynamics, etc) are larger, and much narrower nibs for doing scores (where all the parts are, indeed, much smaller).


"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick; and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
~ Benjamin Franklin

#25 JonSzanto

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Posted 15 September 2018 - 07:13

Back to the arch/arabic/hebrew concept, the basic shape yields narrow verticals and wide horizontals. Simply rotating an italic nib 90 degrees will mimic this. However, our adoption of these names doesn't always mean that they are exactly like someone grinding a B nib into a new shape.

Arabic calligraphy is incredibly artistic and encompasses a wide variety of styles. Many of the practitioners utilize dip-style pens and reeds or bamboo cut to shape. However, you can find examples of Western style pens with highly unique delivery systems that would never be confused with anything an architect would use. Below is just one example:

8b211f2506ccea2deb34d5763cf819e8.jpg


"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick; and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
~ Benjamin Franklin

#26 TheDutchGuy

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Posted 16 September 2018 - 17:42

Wow. I've never seen anything like that.

#27 Honeybadgers

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Posted 16 September 2018 - 19:55

they're interesting but actually kinda suck at writing. I have one.


Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)


#28 JonSzanto

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Posted 16 September 2018 - 20:53

they're interesting but actually kinda suck at writing. I have one.

 

Maybe they aren't made for your kind of writing. Unless you'd like to show us an example of Arabic calligraphic styles.


"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick; and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
~ Benjamin Franklin

#29 Honeybadgers

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 22:11

 

Maybe they aren't made for your kind of writing. Unless you'd like to show us an example of Arabic calligraphic styles.

 

I mean they skip and are inconsistent (and not in that nice paintbrushey way) and scratchy even when held at the correct angle and drawing straight lines. 

Also the cap falls off. It's a (bleep) pen.


Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)


#30 JonSzanto

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 22:44

 

I mean they skip and are inconsistent (and not in that nice paintbrushey way) and scratchy even when held at the correct angle and drawing straight lines. Also the cap falls off. It's a (bleep) pen.

 

Understood, you are probably dead on. However, the point is that there are other nibs - even if poorly executed - that show a reason to exist for other styles of writing. These are examples that show a relationship to the grinds in this thread. One could make a better version of these by altering Pilot Parallel pens, too.


"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick; and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
~ Benjamin Franklin

#31 Honeybadgers

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 05:32

 

Understood, you are probably dead on. However, the point is that there are other nibs - even if poorly executed - that show a reason to exist for other styles of writing. These are examples that show a relationship to the grinds in this thread. One could make a better version of these by altering Pilot Parallel pens, too.

 

Understood. It's honestly why I bought one. It was an interesting idea but the quality of execution was awful. 

 

My new custom made stacked nib pulls off the hebrew style far better.


Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)


#32 KellyMcJ

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Posted 21 September 2018 - 16:54

These have actually started to appear, but I don't know anyone who has tested them. Here's a cheap Chinese Architect:

https://www.ebay.com...en/232810560159

 

Oh wow, that's interesting! I'm looking at architect nibs because I recently got an EF Fude nib (yes you read that correctly) and (after some adjustment for wetness and smoothing to my liking) it's a delight to write with, the thick horizontal and thin vertical really suits my writing. I'm thinking an architect nib might give a similar effect. But maybe I'll stick to the EF Fudes.



#33 BlueJ

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 04:42

If anyone's interested, here are some writing samples with two architect grinds from FPnibs.com, compared with three oblique nibs and one non-edged nib, all on well-known pens. The modified nib units were placed in an ASA Patriot, an Indian ebonite pen. I used a converter with the medium architect, but ran the pen as an eyedropper with the broad. The paper is 68 gsm Tomoe River in a Taroko Breeze notebook.

 

Architect.jpeg





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