Architect Vs Hebrew Nib?

[markh]

The current Pen World magazine discusses both, but I don't understand how they differ.

Any guidance??

 

thnx,

 

 

[Ghost Plane]

The architect is effectively a stub ground so the width goes vertically instead of horizontally. The Hebrew is a right oblique as opposed to a left oblique. All they do is change where wide lines fall versus thin.

 

Heres my Sheaffer right oblique compared to ballpoint. I use the nib for everyday writing as I like the effect.

[Chrissy]

I always thought they were the same. I recommend you go to Richard Binder's web-site and read his nib articles on the subject.

[Ghost Plane]

But ignore his opinion that obliques are somehow for people who rotate their nibs.

[Manalto]

The architect is effectively a stub ground so the width goes vertically instead of horizontally.

 

Perhaps so obvious that it goes without saying, but the architect nib makes a thin vertical stroke and broad horizontal stroke. For many years, this was the standard style for block lettering on architectural drawings (until CAD became the norm) and perpetuated by some of us diehards. (I've noticed, to my delight, that in recent years more clients have been framing my hand-drawn landscape designs - appreciation, maybe for the dying art.) KWZ 'Mandarin' or 'Orange' (more muted than they sound) are good for the task; landscape drawings don't have the rigidity of architectural drawings and these brownish tones

[Ghost Plane]

I like the way you explain it better. Wanna share some of your work?

[Manalto]

That's kind of you to say especially since I didn't really answer the OP's question about the difference between the two - and I didn't finish my final thought. What I neglected to say was that I think the brownish tones work better with the subject matter (landscape).

 

Unfortunately, I'm many miles away from any drawings and with no access to images.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Manalto

[Lloyd]

So, how does a music nib compare with an architect or a Hebrew nib?

[inkstainedruth]

My understanding is that music nibs provide extra flow, and can be used with the pen at a more horizontal angle (I.e., for writing music when the paper is on a music stand, so more upright than normal for paper or a notebook). And that they are more likely to have some flex to them, so you can do the heads of notes easily while still using the pen for the staff line of the notes with the nib unflexed).

I have a couple of pens with music nibs, but one of them needs to be re-sacced; the one that's working is a Parker Challenger retrofitted with a music nib and feed harvested from a no-name lever filler, and is a lovely writer). I don't have any architect nibs, so I can't say how they compare (although I also thought, like Chrissy, that "Hebrew" nibs were the same as architect nibs).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Lloyd]

I think Hebrew nibs can only write backwards.

As long as down-strokes are thin and cross-strokes are wide, why would you need flex for music?

[Ghost Plane]

Maybe the rabbis I know are more oblique in their preferences from hanging out with Arabic writers?

[dms525]

My understanding is, like Chrissy's, that an architect nib and Hebrew nib are the same, as is an Arabic nib. I bought a JoWo nib ground as an Architect/Hebrew nib for writing Hebrew. Maybe (probably) it's just my lack of experience, but I find writing Hebrew with a regular Italic nib rotated 90º anti-clockwise works better for me.

 

FYI, here is a photo I took in 2012 in Warsaw of a certified Jewish scribe ("Sofer") writing Hebrew with the traditional instrument, a quill.

 

 

 

Ronnie (the sofer) does build and sell Sukkot as well as mezuzot and other written Jewish documents, but he doesn't claim to be an architect.

 

David

[Honeybadgers]

So, how does a music nib compare with an architect or a Hebrew nib?

 

Music nibs are often broad stubs, often with three tines, and all are designed to write perpendicular to the page, you're supposed to hold them sideways too, to create the downstroke lines of a musical note. Only japan still makes them anymore, apart from the noodlers vishnu victory nib (which, while cool as hell, is a nightmare to get writing properly and constantly comes out of tune) but there was a time when sheaffer made a three tine conical triumph nib... they are exceedingly rare and stunningly gorgeous.

 

Anyone arguing the hebrew nib is an oblique isn't technically right. The oblique effect is a cheap way to pull off the same trick, though, so it's not technically wrong, either. A lot of pens made for hebrew and arabic are lovely oblique stubs. And the first reed pens for the job were oblique stubs.

 

But a true hebrew nib in a fountain pen is the same as an architect. they can be very severe folded nibs, however, to create the same effect and also tend to leave the characteristic brush-like stroke, essentially a spade tip ruling pen.

 

So a modern, true hebrew nib is an architect nib. No difference.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Honeybadgers

[sidthecat]

It’s probably similar to Sailor’s Naginata Togi nibs, which write broad on the horizontal stroke and narrow on the vertical, a modification that makes it easier to write Japanese characters.

[Mulrich]

It’s probably similar to Sailor’s Naginata Togi nibs, which write broad on the horizontal stroke and narrow on the vertical, a modification that makes it easier to write Japanese characters.

 

I was just about ask about the Naginata Togi nib. My NT nib is one of my 3 favorite writers. I bought an architect nib hoping to find a similar writing experience but it wasn't the same. Maybe it's the quality of Sailor's nibmeisters compared to the company I bought the architect from, but the NT is much better behaved. I think the NT has a similar shape as an architect nib but has a slightly rounder writing surface compared to an architect nib which is more angular. The architect is must pickier about my writing angle than the NT, so maybe the distinction is similar to the difference between an italic and stub nib.

[zaddick]

 

I was just about ask about the Naginata Togi nib. My NT nib is one of my 3 favorite writers. I bought an architect nib hoping to find a similar writing experience but it wasn't the same. Maybe it's the quality of Sailor's nibmeisters compared to the company I bought the architect from, but the NT is much better behaved. I think the NT has a similar shape as an architect nib but has a slightly rounder writing surface compared to an architect nib which is more angular. The architect is must pickier about my writing angle than the NT, so maybe the distinction is similar to the difference between an italic and stub nib.

 

I think you are correct. Here is a slightly out of focus picture of an NMF nib's tipping. You can see it is more rounded than one might expect with an architect grind done by a modern nibsmith.

 

[TassoBarbasso]

A Hebrew nib is the same thing as an Arabic one: it gives thin vertical strokes and thick horizontal ones. This maximizes the aesthetic advantage of Arabic and Hebrew calligraphy, as they are both horizontal (usually), as opposed to Western calligraphy which, in its standardized forms, is either oblique (Spencerian, Copperplate, ...) or more vertical-oriented (Gothic). All of these handwriting are better served by a stub or oblique.

 

An architect nib is just an Arabic/Hebrew. No differences whatsoever. The term started to become more common in America for political reasons after 9/11.

 

Some Arab and Jewish people will use obliques not because of preference, but because proper Arabic/Hebrew/architect grinds are less easily available.

[elh93]

Is there any pens with this style asides from the sailor? Or all just custom grinds?

[BlueJ]

I've read there are are a variety of Chinese nibs and pens similar to the Sailor naginata and fude types, but seldom available outside China, perhaps because the Chinese sellers assume there is little export market. These would be mostly inexpensive stainless steel nibs.

[elh93]

I've read there are are a variety of Chinese nibs and pens similar to the Sailor naginata and fude types, but seldom available outside China, perhaps because the Chinese sellers assume there is little export market. These would be mostly inexpensive stainless steel nibs.

 

I'd be ok with a steel nib, at least more willing to try one before spending on a gold nib of a type I've never used.