Willing To Give A Fountain Pen Another Shot

[Emt1581]

 

for nib, fine should be o.k if you dont want thick writing..

 

as for proper grip... it's basically like this.. the barrel of the pen should rest on your knuckle..

 

 

instead of like this...

 

 

this is because fountain pen nib is actually at an angle... so it's doesnt work that well if you hold it like a ballpoint \ rollerball pen.

 

 

I appreciate the pics, that helps.

[Emt1581]

1. What are your goals? Write more? Jot down ideas? Improve your handwriting? Think with less interruptions?

 

First and foremost I want to present better and more polished. It's how I was raised but over time I became lazy and a pen is just a small part of it. But a very close second is that I write A LOT between evals, intakes, and case notes. As I mentioned in my last couple of replies, when I did try a fountain pen in the past, I was amazed at how effortless the writing was...to get ink to paper. Just use gravity instead of carving like with a ballpoint. Left my hand far less cramped.

 

2. Make sure it's comfortable to hold: diameter of the barrel, material, weight. For my glove size L hands, my one Metropolitan and two Parker Sonnets are fine, but borderline.

 

3. Reset your expectations;

 

a. Fountain pen nibs have a sweet spot, make sure you're using it, just rotate the pen in your hands until you find it. Which paper and ink will you use? On regular paper you might think the experience is not worth it, but you may not feel comfortable buying special paper. HP laserjet 32 lbs is a decent and not that expensive (per page) alternative. The Metropolitan is my one pen that seems to get along with all papers, it's not like the others feel scratchy but they shine on better paper.

 

Initially I'll be using cheap copy paper and whatever ink people here tell me to use. In time, once I come to the conclusion that I will be investing more into fountain pens, I have no problem buying the good stuff so long as I can feed it through a copy machine to make my paperwork.

 

b. Also, make sure you follow good practices, like cleaning the pen before using it, to avoid the typical flow problems. A converter lets you use bottled ink in your favorite color and primes the feed since you're sucking ink through it; otherwise with a cartridge have some patience while the feed fills up.

 

Cleaning before use....does that mean wiping the nib off with a Kleenex or something different?

 

c. A fountain pen is made to glide on paper, you should not be pressing down on it; you might need to train your hand muscles to relax.

 

4. Do you care about design? In the end I found it's a lot more about inks than pens for me, but some designs have me drooling, from what I have: Faber Castell Ambition in pearwood, Lamy Studio, Pelikan m205. From what I don't have: Parker vacumatic, 75 (alas, apparently too thin for me).

 

Initially I could care less about looks...it's 100% about function and to figure out if I like fountain pens. But in the future, yes, looks will matter.

 

Good luck!

 

I'm not sure if your questions were rhetorical, but please see above.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Emt1581

[penzel_washinkton]

Seems like the wing sung 698 is where most are leaning... I see some ink suggestions but please keep those coming. Definitely need an ink that can go on cheap copy paper but not smear as I'm left handed.

 

With the nib....being that I want it to write well but do not have room for thick/bold writing...should I go medium, fine, extra fine, etc.?

 

As far as knuckle placement, I'm a bit confused. Any pics or links to proper grip would be appreciated.

 

Thanks!!

 

Then you need a dry pen / ink combination since you want to avoid smearing due to you being left handed.

 

I strongly suggest you try the Parker Quink or Pelikan 4001 first, they are dry writing inks which might be helpful for left handers.

Also get finer (Japanese EF, F) nib size to complement the dry inks for faster dry time

[JollyCynic]

I had a similar experience to yours ... some twenty years ago. And I just started trying fountain pens again a couple of months ago.

 

I love my Metro, and think it's a great transition pen from the world of ballpoint pens. The finer medium gave me a similar line to what I had before, but is also effortless to write with. (And yes, it's boring, even the cool colours. But I'm okay with boring for now.)

 

I also quite like the Pelikan Twist as a starter pen, as it forces not only a good grip (I thought their marketing said they made left-handed versions, but it says they're suitable for right- or left-handed use), but also reminds you to write with a gentler angle. (But it's bright, looks funny, doesn't have a clip, and doesn't fit pen loops and the like. You have to carry it and know that everybody's judging you.)

 

I don't really like my Lamy Safari. It's very smooth, but it's a bit too glassy, so my hand sloshes about the page. I save it for writing personal notes where speed matters and handwriting doesn't.

 

Interested to see what you pick up and what you think about it.

Edited August 7, 2018 by JollyCynic

[Emt1581]

 

Then you need a dry pen / ink combination since you want to avoid smearing due to you being left handed.

 

I strongly suggest you try the Parker Quink or Pelikan 4001 first, they are dry writing inks which might be helpful for left handers.

Also get finer (Japanese EF, F) nib size to complement the dry inks for faster dry time

 

I greatly appreciate the ink suggestion!! Thanks!!

 

Now does that eliminate any/all of the pens being discussed for my use? What exactly is a dry ink.....pen? I get the ink part, but does the pen need to have a certain spec/description?

 

Thanks!

[senzen]

Cleaning before use....does that mean wiping the nib off with a Kleenex or something different?

I'm not sure if your questions were rhetorical, but please see above.

 

 

Not rhetorical! Cleaning can be done by pumping water, sometimes with just a drop of dish soap, through the pen, to ged rid of any oils present, perhaps during the manufacturing process. With my approximately 25 pens this has solved most problems, as opposed to fixating on the nibs.

 

A cheap bulb syringe makes this quick and effortless; you can then use it to pump air to get rid of the water so your ink isn't diluted. If your pen is easy to disassemble you can also clean it that way. Lamy Safaris and Pilot Metropolitans are very easy to disassemble.

 

I don't make a distinction between wet or dry inks, but some of them do tend to produce gunk, from the ones I have: J Herbin Rouge Hematite, Orange Indien to a lesser extent.

[Emt1581]

 

 

Not rhetorical! Cleaning can be done by pumping water, sometimes with just a drop of dish soap, through the pen, to ged rid of any oils present, perhaps during the manufacturing process. With my approximately 25 pens this has solved most problems, as opposed to fixating on the nibs.

 

A cheap bulb syringe makes this quick and effortless; you can then use it to pump air to get rid of the water so your ink isn't diluted. If your pen is easy to disassemble you can also clean it that way. Lamy Safaris and Pilot Metropolitans are very easy to disassemble.

 

I don't make a distinction between wet or dry inks, but some of them do tend to produce gunk, from the ones I have: J Herbin Rouge Hematite, Orange Indien to a lesser extent.

Seems like most were advising against both the Sarari and Metro based on my criteria. Or should they still be in the running? Again, I just want something that won't leak, stain my fingers/clothes, and writes well for me.

On the inks, thanks I'll look into them. Last night while watching youtube Noodlers seemed well-liked but I have no idea if they make a version that'll soak in and dry rapidly even on cheap copy paper.

Thanks again!

Edited August 7, 2018 by Emt1581

[Bo Bo Olson]

There is the tripod grip...which is pinching at 10-2&6.....most folks use that....can take months to develop a light grip with it.

 

Similar to to the grip calvin_0, showed you is the 'Forefinger up' method, which produced an automatic light grip....takes some three minutes to learn....10-15 minutes to become comfortable with.

 

I favor just behind the big knuckle at 45 degrees or at the start of the web of the thumb at 40 degrees....depending on the length and weight of the pen.

+ thumb position near the crease of the forefinger first joint crease....is explained in the link.

 

It is important to have a 'long flat thumb' at 08:30...don't bend your thumb joint. No Deadly Kung Fu Death Pinch!!!

The thumb is only a dam the pen rests against.

All covered in the link.....been preaching this for quite a while....in it removed the pain at the middle finger nail joint caused by plowing the South Forty, with out the mule....ball point use.

There is no hand fatigue caused by the Death Grip of pinching in the Classic Tripod.

Help! How Do You Hold Your Fountain Pen?

Edited August 7, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[Emt1581]

There is the tripod grip...which is pinching at 10-2&6.....most folks use that....can take months to develop a light grip with it.

 

Similar to to the grip calvin_0, showed you is the 'Forefinger up' method, which produced an automatic light grip....takes some three minutes to learn....10-15 minutes to become comfortable with.

 

I favor just behind the big knuckle at 45 degrees or at the start of the web of the thumb at 40 degrees....depending on the length and weight of the pen.

+ thumb position near the crease of the forefinger first joint crease....is explained in the link.

 

It is important to have a 'long flat thumb' at 08:30...don't bend your thumb joint. No Deadly Kung Fu Death Pinch!!!

The thumb is only a dam the pen rests against.

All covered in the link.....been preaching this for quite a while....in it removed the pain at the middle finger nail joint caused by plowing the South Forty, with out the mule....ball point use.

There is no hand fatigue caused by the Death Grip of pinching in the Classic Tripod.

Help! How Do You Hold Your Fountain Pen?

 

Thanks for the reply. I must not have been clear on my previous experience. I was able to write beautifully with the junky Staples fountain pen....really confused me because normally I write horribly!!

 

However, my main struggle was the the ink smeared from my hand and the pen would leak and my fingers/clothes became a mess.

 

Thanks

[Emt1581]

I looked into the Lamy Safari which looks to be around $20 with an F or EF nib. The mediums seems cheaper for some reason. No ink, no converter included.

 

The Pilot Metro. is $13.29 shipped with an F nib and comes with a black ink cartridge AND a converter. So going that route I could test it to see if it works for me (without smearing on leaking) and then buy ink. However, I have no clue if the ink included is quick drying or not. Anyone know??

 

Like I said, money is not a major concern, but I don't want to blow $50 for a pen, ink, and converter if I don't have to...just to have a good experience.

 

Thanks!

[knarflj]

If you will be writing on cheap paper, and especially if your handwriting is fairly small, you probably want a fine or extra-fine nib. Japanese nibs tend to be smaller than their similarly labeled European counterparts, so if you get a Safari (for instance) you want an EF; if you buy a Metro, Prera, or other Pilot pen, a F will be small enough - in fact, it will be smaller than a Safari EF. I do occasionally use larger nibs on cheap paper, but you have to be able to write larger, and the probability of noticeable feathering or bleed-through gets higher the larger your nib.

 

Is there a local (or relatively local) group of pen aficionados near you? I know there are quite a few around the country; here in SE Michigan we meet in the Ann Arbor area monthly. If you can find a similar group, I highly recommend going to a meeting and asking folks to bring pens along that might work for your situation. That way you can try them out and see what you really like before investing. Or try buying a couple different relatively inexpensive pens to see what you like. For instance, over the years I have discovered that I prefer very light pens with a relatively large grip diameter. I like my Metro okay (love the F nib, but the grip is not perfect, and it's a little heavy for me), but I much prefer the slightly more expensive Prera - same nib and feed, but just feels nicer in my hand. That's just me, though (I like my Safaris, too, btw). Everyone's preference is different. My only experience with a Chinese pen (a Jinhao) was a disaster - never could get the thing to write properly, no matter how much I tinkered with it - so I shy away from them myself and never recommend them to newbies. I know that's probably unfair, because a sample of one is never representative, but once burned…

 

Jenny

[Honeybadgers]

Japanese fine or extra fine is your money nib for a newbie writing on copy paper. If you are still on the fence about something like cost, the pilot metro is a safe, reliable purchase. If you don't like the grip, try another pen, but the pilot metro is such a safe bet that even while I don't love the grip myself (this is more uncommon a phenomenon than you'd realize based on this forum, we are all just a bunch of weirdos that REALLY know what we like and do not like) it's a well made, very presentable pen that writes really well and just checks all the boxes for about ten bucks. Get a bottle of good ink for bad paper, depending on your color preferences, people say "dry" inks are best (these are inks that just do not flow as much out when nib touches paper, a wetter line tends to bleed and feather more, so you want the finest nib and most feather-resistant ink you can get) but I personally don't like pelikan 4001 or quink. For about ten dollars, a bottle of sailor Jentle ink in any color you like will ALWAYS behave on ANY paper. If you like blue, souten. Turquoise, yama-dori, red, oku-yama. (edit- nevermind, sailor has jacked their prices up a lot. Still amazing inks, but no longer the best for newbies)

 

Don't worry about "quick drying" inks yet. If you're writing on copy paper, even the worst, smear-prone inks will dry instantly because they soak into the paper. All inks dry near-instantly on copy paper. It's only a "thing" when you start writing on coated paper like laser jet or a good brand like rhodia or clairefontaine.

 

So, here's my recommendation, and this is what has worked for a lot of people that I've converted to fountain pens.

 

Pilot meropolitan, F nib. $11.50

 

https://www.amazon.com/Pilot-Metropolitan-Collection-Fountain-91111/dp/B00KRPFD96/ref=sr_1_4?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1533677038&sr=1-4&keywords=pilot+metropolitan+fountain+pen

 

Waterman Serenity Blue ink: $7.29

 

https://www.amazon.com/Waterman-Bottle-Fountain-Serenity-S0110720/dp/B000J3X9VU/ref=sr_1_3?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1533677216&sr=1-3&keywords=waterman+blue+ink

 

under $20 with tax for a REALLY reliable, well made and good looking pen that will work well on any paper, and the hands-down most reliable and well-respected ink in the business.

 

If you are okay with black ink, just pick up the metro and buy a bottle of ink in a couple weeks. If you are still on the fence, send me a PM and I will mail you some more pilot cartridges for free, I have a metric boatload just sitting around.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Honeybadgers

[Emt1581]

Japanese fine or extra fine is your money nib for a newbie writing on copy paper. If you are still on the fence about something like cost, the pilot metro is a safe, reliable purchase. If you don't like the grip, try another pen, but the pilot metro is such a safe bet that even while I don't love the grip myself (this is more uncommon a phenomenon than you'd realize based on this forum, we are all just a bunch of weirdos that REALLY know what we like and do not like) it's a well made, very presentable pen that writes really well and just checks all the boxes for about ten bucks. Get a bottle of good ink for bad paper, depending on your color preferences, people say "dry" inks are best (these are inks that just do not flow as much out when nib touches paper, a wetter line tends to bleed and feather more, so you want the finest nib and most feather-resistant ink you can get) but I personally don't like pelikan 4001 or quink. For about ten dollars, a bottle of sailor Jentle ink in any color you like will ALWAYS behave on ANY paper. If you like blue, souten. Turquoise, yama-dori, red, oku-yama. (edit- nevermind, sailor has jacked their prices up a lot. Still amazing inks, but no longer the best for newbies)

 

Don't worry about "quick drying" inks yet. If you're writing on copy paper, even the worst, smear-prone inks will dry instantly because they soak into the paper. All inks dry near-instantly on copy paper. It's only a "thing" when you start writing on coated paper like laser jet or a good brand like rhodia or clairefontaine.

 

So, here's my recommendation, and this is what has worked for a lot of people that I've converted to fountain pens.

 

Pilot meropolitan, F nib. $11.50

 

https://www.amazon.com/Pilot-Metropolitan-Collection-Fountain-91111/dp/B00KRPFD96/ref=sr_1_4?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1533677038&sr=1-4&keywords=pilot+metropolitan+fountain+pen

 

Waterman Serenity Blue ink: $7.29

 

https://www.amazon.com/Waterman-Bottle-Fountain-Serenity-S0110720/dp/B000J3X9VU/ref=sr_1_3?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1533677216&sr=1-3&keywords=waterman+blue+ink

 

under $20 with tax for a REALLY reliable, well made and good looking pen that will work well on any paper, and the hands-down most reliable and well-respected ink in the business.

 

If you are okay with black ink, just pick up the metro and buy a bottle of ink in a couple weeks. If you are still on the fence, send me a PM and I will mail you some more pilot cartridges for free, I have a metric boatload just sitting around.

 

Thanks for all the info! I think I am going to pull the trigger on a Metro and just try the ink that comes with it. BTW, for my job I do need to use black ink or the insurance companies flip out if I ever were to get audited. So I'm not sure what your go-to would be for smear free in black....if it's still Waterman or if it'd be something else.

 

 

Not to get ahead of myself, but if I do end up loving a fountain pen, what happens when I want to start trading up and trying the better looking/performing ones? Does ink and paper get more important and specific? Are the optimal papers not going to feed well in your standard Brother all-in-one copy machine?

 

Thanks!!

[Sailor Kenshin]

The Metro will be fine, if you don't mind the section step (I was able to ignore it after a while). But you also can't go far wrong with a Platinum Plaisir and a fine nib. The Platinum Black cart that comes with it is an excellent ink.

 

I have too many of them....maybe one in each color and nib.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Back before Noodlers, Waterman inks were considered wet. I even bought a bottle of Blue, just for a dry semi-flex, that there was no way to adjust the nib. A Geha 725. It has an inlaid nib.

Picture with permission of Penboard.de.

 

I later bought a bottle of DA Royal Blue...a tinge towards purple...my crayon box as a child back in B&W TV days, was much bluer than Wiki's reddish color purple. ...it is wetter than Waterman, more lubricated and I like the tone. Won't be real good for cheap paper.....but right now, I'm being forced to print on 90 g or 80g bond paper and it works well in my 200 EF.

Might be worth your while to dip into Inky Thoughts, look up drier inks in the search.

 

I do like 4001 inks, but the Royal Blue fades...is a school ink so washable. Have to order 4001 Blue Black from Germany a world class admired dry ink....and hope it gets through customs (it should...no one but a lawmaker and we now it's illegal) ....illegal in the States....it appears American Rats are not as sturdy as Norwegian Rats.

 

MB is sort of medium-medium-dry. Edelstein is supposedly dryer than MB but wetter than 4001...depending on which ink. Edelstein is not across the board, some are wetter some are dry.

 

I know some R&K iron gall inks are dry. But for me R&K Verdura a green-green ink seems much like MB Irish Green, and lots and lots cheaper.

[penzel_washinkton]

 

I greatly appreciate the ink suggestion!! Thanks!!

 

Now does that eliminate any/all of the pens being discussed for my use? What exactly is a dry ink.....pen? I get the ink part, but does the pen need to have a certain spec/description?

 

Thanks!

 

It does help if you're a lefty. Since you are still early on getting into FPs I suggest you try out one first and see from there. The pen also has it's attributes, whether it's a gusher or a very flow restrictive instrument but that's for further readings.

 

I forgot there was a FP user blog that specializes for lefty where he/she reviews various inks and gives verdict whether it is lefty approved or not.

 

For now, I think others has also given very good advice regarding the inks and pens. For a step up, you will be more educated later on and you can see which might suit you well seeing from the reviews.

[Flippy]

The metro can definitely have an uncomfortable grip.

 

The TWSBI Eco is a good pen but still has cracking problems.

 

The preppy is just too cheap looking. Plaisir is a good choice.

 

The perkeo is prone to quality control issues too.

 

Nemosine's singularity is a solid pen, it only has the one odd issue of the section unscrewing (just tighten it down firmly and the problem goes away)

I think TWSBI has fixed these cracking problems, especially with the ECO.

 

My personal choise for a starting pen is a Nemosine Singularity. It is a solid, professional looking pen.

[Bexinthecity247]

Apologies for hijacking but I have never heard of the Wing Sung 698 until this thread.. and I wouldn't class myself as entirely a beginner but I couldn't resist the transparent pen and bought one this morning .

[Bo Bo Olson]

I am BoBo 'Hijack' Olson, so I'd not worry Bexinthecity. As long as you touch the main subject somewhere, which you did....more or less.

 

There are some real good Chinese pens, like the $50 Duke, and others that are adequate to more than adequate for the price. They are as far as I know mostly metal., therefore heavier.

I like lighter pens; mostly the once IN, medium-small (longer caps allow them to post as long as standard), or standard and medium-large pens.

I chase old cheap...'cheaper' with luck once flagship vintage, semi-vintage plastic pens. Those tend to have good to great balance, and important factor in the long run. A decade ago, Chinese pens were not on the radar.....two decades or so ago Japanese were not either.

 

Back in the day of B&W TV, I couldn't wait to get into 4th grade, when we would use a fountain pen.

What ever pen it was, was a lever pen.....not a pretty Esterbook. Later I had one of the ugly Esterbrooks. In every fountain pen and Jotter I owned back then was stolen....I'd think of getting your soon to be better pen engraved with your name. That before the used pen market of today, was considered a mark of Class. Engraved pens given for graduation of HS, Collage, anniversaries, or retiring form a company. Could have your initials engraved in the clip of a metal pen.

[Emt1581]

I think TWSBI has fixed these cracking problems, especially with the ECO.

 

My personal choise for a starting pen is a Nemosine Singularity. It is a solid, professional looking pen.

 

 

I did end up pulling the trigger on a Metro. However, looking at the Singularity, it looks like it has the same tiny grip area that the Metro has. But that has me curious about grips in general...

 

Looking at more expensive pens like the MB Meisterstuck Classique, that looks to have a slightly longer length of grip space. However, there is threading that borders the grip rather than a pronounced lip. So I'm curious if all fountain pens have the same general grip sizing but threading may extend the space a bit?

 

Now pens like the Safari and others that have angled grips appear to be different animals entirely. So I'm only speaking specifically about the ones that look as the Metro, Singularity, Meisterstuck Classique, etc....do.

 

I'm super excited to get my Metro! I really hope I end up enjoying it so I can start graduating to a nicer pen or maybe even a collection.

 

Thanks!

Edited August 8, 2018 by Emt1581