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Frequency / Rarity Of The Various Model J Colors


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#1 alanlight

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 01:51

It would seem based on my casual observation, that certain colors are more common than others. Based on what I've seen, I'd rank them from most to least common as:

 

1. Black

2. Copper

3. Green II 

4. Gray I

5. Red

6. Blue

7. Green I

8. Gray II

9. Brown

 

This is for the regular model J, I haven't encountered enough LJ's and SJ's to draw a conclusion on those.

 

Anybody agree/disagree?

 

 

 



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#2 ac12

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 04:21

There are only 6 colors: black, grey, red, copper, green, blue.

 

Why the Green I and II, Grey I and II, and brown ?

As far I am am concerned, green is green, and gray is gray (except for gray and grey), any difference of the colors is simply manufacturing variation.

And there isn't a brown, it is probably a dark shade of copper.  Again manufacturing variation.

 

There is an additional black.

The ones that are imprinted "Bell Systems"


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#3 pajaro

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 18:43

There are only 6 colors: black, grey, red, copper, green, blue.

 

Why the Green I and II, Grey I and II, and brown ?

As far I am am concerned, green is green, and gray is gray (except for gray and grey), any difference of the colors is simply manufacturing variation.

And there isn't a brown, it is probably a dark shade of copper.  Again manufacturing variation.

 

There is an additional black.

The ones that are imprinted "Bell Systems"

 

There are those who are interested in manufacturing variations and who collect them.  I have noted a few variations, like true green and olive green and copper and brown in J series pens.  I have found these variations interesting.  You might not find any interest in them, but why suppress it for others?  I suppose the worry that you might not be able to say you have all the J-series colors if the variations become widely accepted.  The variations do exist, though.  We could all agree that they are minor variations of a color.  I still think they are interesting.  We might never know how they happened.  In other collecting hobbies minor manufacturing variations can sometimes assume importance.  In postage stamp collecting minor variations are often considered to be very valuable.  Often how they occurred is known and documented.  In pens we might never know things like this.  I don't know that things like color varieties of J-series pens are catalogued.  Can't say I really care, but I wouldn't stop someone else from advancing knowledge.


Edited by pajaro, 03 August 2018 - 18:45.

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#4 inkstainedruth

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 21:05

Agree with pajaro.  I have a few Coppers and one SJ in what people here refer to as "root beer".  And of course that's not counting the "icicles" (as opposed to the mackerel tabby patterned barrels).

I would also be interested in which colors are more or less common (for some reason I have several light green ones, and it took me a dog's age to get a blue one -- even though the first one I saw in the wild was blue; and I'm still kicking myself that I didn't just go ahead and buy it at the time...).

I've also seen references to "lilac" but don't know if that's just a variant batch of grey.

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#5 Hobiwan

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 22:27

And, if one wanted to dive deeper into variations, include those called "streakers" and "pinstripe" black accents in the colors, mixed into the "mackrel sky" patterns.  Here's one from England ....

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-sticker-Boxed-British-Made-Blue-Esterbrook-J-Fountain-Pen-2048-Flex-Nib/273387106436?hash=item3fa7243084%3Ag%3ARX0AAOSwsZJadwJx%3Asc%3AUSPSFirstClass%2191773%21US%21-1&_sop=10&_sacat=0&_nkw=esterbrook&_from=R40&rt=nc 

 

Speaking of English color patterns, they seem to have favored solid colors, although they're a bit hard to find.  I've found red, green and blue, as well as a color I can only describe as "olive drab". ...


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#6 pajaro

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Posted 04 August 2018 - 02:44

Agree with pajaro.  I have a few Coppers and one SJ in what people here refer to as "root beer".  And of course that's not counting the "icicles" (as opposed to the mackerel tabby patterned barrels).

I would also be interested in which colors are more or less common (for some reason I have several light green ones, and it took me a dog's age to get a blue one -- even though the first one I saw in the wild was blue; and I'm still kicking myself that I didn't just go ahead and buy it at the time...).

I've also seen references to "lilac" but don't know if that's just a variant batch of grey.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

 

And, if one wanted to dive deeper into variations, include those called "streakers" and "pinstripe" black accents in the colors, mixed into the "mackrel sky" patterns.  Here's one from England ....

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-sticker-Boxed-British-Made-Blue-Esterbrook-J-Fountain-Pen-2048-Flex-Nib/273387106436?hash=item3fa7243084%3Ag%3ARX0AAOSwsZJadwJx%3Asc%3AUSPSFirstClass%2191773%21US%21-1&_sop=10&_sacat=0&_nkw=esterbrook&_from=R40&rt=nc 

 

Speaking of English color patterns, they seem to have favored solid colors, although they're a bit hard to find.  I've found red, green and blue, as well as a color I can only describe as "olive drab". ...

 

I had forgotten about all of those. 


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--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

They took the blue from the skies and the pretty girls' eyes and a touch of Old Glory too . . .


#7 FarmBoy

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Posted 04 August 2018 - 06:04

There is no problem in collecting the variations in the color or patterning but Esterbrook had exactly 6 colors and the colors varied in patterning and depth of color.

 

Esterbrook did not name the colors either, they were as AC12 stated, with the only name being Copper for the brown.  The 'official' names offered on some websites are a collector-ism and not an Esterbrook nomenclature.  The colors are listed in the catalogs we have.

 

Long long ago I had unopened boxes of 6 pens some of one color and others of a mix.  The colors and patterns varied.  I do suspect that the green and grey and the copper changed colors over time but Esterbrook didn't differentiate between them.  A different case exists with the pastels.  There are two distinct color sets of 6 with the later pens being much brighter, almost not pastel.

 

Carry on.


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#8 gweimer1

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Posted 04 August 2018 - 10:57

One of the interesting things about collecting Esterbrooks is the wild variations of color and accents.   You can easily find 36 variants of the six colors, black being the only exception with the J pens.  I've even had one that I suspected came from mixing colors somewhere/somehow.  It was really an olive green pen, almost as if gray and green had been mixed together.  

 

I have seen red vary from a nearly pink to a deep blood red.  I have seen green swing from what might be called Sage to a deep Forest Green.  There's a color for everyone's taste.

 

The hard part comes when you have a box of parts, and try to match them together.



#9 pajaro

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 01:35

I get the distinct impression that if Esterbrook didn't distinguish colors or name them, collectors don't want any other collector doing it either. 


"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

They took the blue from the skies and the pretty girls' eyes and a touch of Old Glory too . . .


#10 Hobiwan

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 10:25

I get the distinct impression that if Esterbrook didn't distinguish colors or name them, collectors don't want any other collector doing it either. 

 

Au contraire, mon ami.

 

I feel that the additional descriptives and nicknames given simply show an additional level of affection that some have for the pens. Also, some have a preference for a certain color mix or pattern in the plastic (if memory serves, InkstainedRuth likes the "mackerel sky" patterns).  I, for instance prefer a near-solid consistency throughout, while some others go for the "streaker" mix.  The "cracked ice" description goes much further to describe those pens than the simple main color white, yellow or aqua.  So, the additional descriptives do help in that respect, sez me. 

 

I think if you took a survey of Esty fans, you'd find a three-way split: Some like, some don't, some don't care one way or the other and tolerate all equally. :)


Best Regards
Paul


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#11 Tom Heath

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 16:50

yes Etsy lovers there were many variations to colors   

I do believe in the pen business working with extruded products, variation in color were easier to produce than solid color.

 

 

Has anyone an " End 'o Day " pen  remember the varigated plastics as seen in  penknife production

 

When it comes to Esties  I sure like the snake skined models

 

Yes there are tones of Red, Brown , Blue  e.g Dubonnet Red, Blood Red ,Crimson Red 

                                                                         Saphire Blue , Sky Blue

                                                                          Copper ,  RootBeer Float , Bronze

 

WE all have our favorite tones , What is Yours

 

 

 

i

'd love to see some end of day plastics as was seen in 


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#12 DanDeM

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 17:16


 

i

'd love to see some end of day plastics as was seen in 

 

Something like this?

 

fpn_1365361450__end_of_day_5.jpg



#13 alanlight

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 13:39

I get the distinct impression that if Esterbrook didn't distinguish colors or name them, collectors don't want any other collector doing it either. 

 

Well, it doesn't work that way with other collectibles.  For example, the maker of a postage stamp (such as the USPS) will just issue a "3c stamp with a picture of Whistler's Mother."  However, they used two different printing presses (flat and rotary) to make what they consider to be the exact same stamp. Collectors can tell the difference and in this case, two different catalog numbers were assigned to the different versions of this stamp (737 and 738 in this example) and if you're collecting US issues from 1934, your collection would not be considered complete without both of these.

But, the nice thing about pen collecting is that there are no rules. Do whatever makes you happy.








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