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Is A Flat Foot On A Nib Always Bad?


SicEmBears

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I smoothed out my Lamy steel nib with 12,000 grit micro mesh. Although it writes well, I noticed that there is a little flat foot that was created. I read online that a flat food is bad. I didn't polish for more than 10 seconds so I'm not entirely sure if I created the foot or not. Should I worry about this and possibly try to fix it? Thanks.

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From what you describe, it doesn’t sound as though you have harmed your pen. If it writes well, then you fixed it. Sometimes it’s best not to overthink this stuff. If you’ve got the nib writing well then enjoy it.

Yes you can create a flat foot on a nib. You lose your well defined ink line with crisp edges and basically end up with something that is smearing ink around on the surface of the paper.

If you are still concerned it would be helpful to include some pics, and writing samples.

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Micro-mesh is dangerous stuff. Yes, you could have made that flat foot. 10 seconds can be a Long Time, on micro-mesh for just smoothing.

Always rotate the nib, left-right and reverse in circles, up to down; left to right squiggles....all at once... in close sequence, and check every two to three seconds. Practice that on a piece of paper so you can do all that nib moving automatically...for basic 'good&smooth' smoothing.

Butter smooth takes many more rotation sets.

 

Constant rotation avoids the flat foot. Flat foot means you have to keep your pen exactly on the flat foot or it can feel scratchy, and can't have a more relaxed hold on it.

 

Could think of stubbing that nib, if you can't get the edges rounded back.

 

Being old fashioned (then cheaper than later) I favored the old brown paper bag trick for removing drag....in I buy old pens that sat in a drawer for a couple generations, 'iridium' micro-corrosion/rust happens. The good quality brown paper bag (not hairy), takes three 15 second sets, to get rid of drag....and will never ever give you butter smooth.....and even there one needs to rotate the nib.

The professionals are right, it will not give you perfection....but it's harder to ruin a nib with it than micro-mesh. It is often said, here one needs a practice pen or two to ruin to learn how to use micro-mesh.

Micro-mesh is more dangerous as you found out.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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From what you describe, it doesn’t sound as though you have harmed your pen. If it writes well, then you fixed it. Sometimes it’s best not to overthink this stuff. If you’ve got the nib writing well then enjoy it.

Yes you can create a flat foot on a nib. You lose your well defined ink line with crisp edges and basically end up with something that is smearing ink around on the surface of the paper.

If you are still concerned it would be helpful to include some pics, and writing samples.

 

Thanks for the response. At this point I don't think I'm going to mess with micro mesh anymore lol. I've attached pictures of the nib (sorry for the bad quality closeups).

https://imgur.com/fpngallery/dphuAAk

Edit: lazy not yellow!

Edited by SicEmBears
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Do not play with micromesh :)

 

I have had a rather long and bad experience with micromesh, all because of videos on YouTube conveniently and irresponsibly advocating the use of micromesh to do anything from baby's bottom to smoothing nibs.

 

It is a never-ending wrestle.

 

And most of the times in my experience, it is not the outer rim of the nib that gives the scratch or feedback, it is the inner tines. And with inner tines, it is never-ending. The angles and amount of polishing is hard to grasp. Too much (actually, a little is already too much sometimes) and you might get baby's bottom or alot of ink on paper because of the widened slit of ink.

 

Perfectly round is very difficult to get. Micromesh creates edges and sides and facets which make writing worse.

 

Also, it makes the nib uneven. It may serve you well at one or two portions of the page but when you switch immediately to top right corner or bottom left, you will feel scratch. Then you polish again. And again. And again. And again. And still not get it. Then you will get uneven look: the nib contact with paper is irregular due to the now irregular shape of the nib and some parts of the writing will appear lighter, some darker.

 

Also, the two tines will conjugate differently after micromeshing, they will pair up differently and give you a new set of equilibrium, a new equilibrium, which may not be optimal.

 

I know some people claim to have excellent results with micromesh, you could probably establish contact with them, send your pen to them and let them help.

 

Please do not play with micromesh: 'A little' is sometimes too much. It is like gambling: the art is to know when to stop (?).

 

And you could be micromeshing the wrong thing. ;)

Edited by minddance
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Honestly speaking, I don't agree so much with too much caution.

Of course you can flatten your nib out, especially first time you try.

But if you never try you'll never learn how to do it properly (if that is of interest to you).

Ok so you may have created a small flat spot on a Lamy steel nib (worth?). I cannot see the flat spot in your photo, and your photo is quite good. If it's a very small flat area it may have cured the scratchiness you were feeling. And if you feel it writes well, use it.

I've ground flat more than one nib in my early days of experimenting on nibs. Never mind, it has served the learning purpose.

In my opinion if you feel you have damaged the nib, and that badly annoys you, change it (I suppose a Lamy steel nib is not a huge investment), but I also would make a very careful attempt at rounding the edges back a bit (more learning experience).

Ok, perhaps stay away from your highly valuable gold nibs (if you have any) until you master the smoothing process better.

More than one FPNer here has been know to buy cheap Chinese steel nibs to exercise their nib grinding skill on... :)

Another solution is turn to a professional nib master... but for a Lamy steel nib??... (will cost you more than the nib)

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Honestly speaking, I don't agree so much with too much caution.

Of course you can flatten your nib out, especially first time you try.

But if you never try you'll never learn how to do it properly (if that is of interest to you).

Ok so you may have created a small flat spot on a Lamy steel nib (worth?). I cannot see the flat spot in your photo, and your photo is quite good. If it's a very small flat area it may have cured the scratchiness you were feeling. And if you feel it writes well, use it.

I've ground flat more than one nib in my early days of experimenting on nibs. Never mind, it has served the learning purpose.

In my opinion if you feel you have damaged the nib, and that badly annoys you, change it (I suppose a Lamy steel nib is not a huge investment), but I also would make a very careful attempt at rounding the edges back a bit (more learning experience).

Ok, perhaps stay away from your highly valuable gold nibs (if you have any) until you master the smoothing process better.

More than one FPNer here has been know to buy cheap Chinese steel nibs to exercise their nib grinding skill on... :)

Another solution is turn to a professional nib master... but for a Lamy steel nib??... (will cost you more than the nib)

 

I think you're right. I'm quite new with fountain pens so I assumed that the tipping point was supposed to be perfectly round. But I guess that's not the case, if the "flat foot" I saw in the pictures weren't actually noticeable.

I'm just glad I made this post before trying to smooth out my more expensive gold pens! I honestly didn't know that even 12,000 grit micro mesh could change the shape of the tipping material.

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Not perfectly round....somewhat elliptical/oval shape.. say sort of shallow half U with the rear 'arm' trailing away on the pen side of the nib.

 

It don't look that bad, very small, hard to see so can be re-rounded by rotating the nib. Think rounding will help a bit, rather than the perhaps polishing you thought before.

 

If you use the second block down, direct link, in Imgur, we can see with out going out of our way. I had to learn that also.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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Oh yea, I can see where you went to town with the micro mesh...lol...but you have done no harm. Your writing sample looks great. The pen is writing just fine.

You did right to start out your nib tuning with a lamb steel nib. Replacement nibs are not costly.

If you want to hone your skills, id Suggest buying a couple Jinhao. 159 or an X450. They both take #6 Jowo replacement nibs available from places like Goulet pen for around $15. The nib and feeds are friction fit. They just pull straight out. They are good writing pens and great practice pens.

There is nothing wrong with bobos Brown paper bag method. Micro mesh will remove tipping material. A light touch, frequent checking is a must. There are a lot of differing opinions on whether to go in circles or not. I find that side to side, then address the edges, feeling how the nib slides over the medium and checking my ink line frequently on paper works for me.

There are some really good videos on YouTube that you will find very helpful.

You did right bringing it up here. All of us will help where we can.

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Anyone who is accosting you for a ten second run on micro mesh is insane. No, you didn't screw anything up. Lamy pens are notorious for being flat footed. Both my 2000's and every steel nib in EF or F is basically square.

 

You can definitely correct the squareness with just rotating it around.

Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)

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Anyone who is accosting you for a ten second run on micro mesh is insane. No, you didn't screw anything up. Lamy pens are notorious for being flat footed. Both my 2000's and every steel nib in EF or F is basically square.

 

You can definitely correct the squareness with just rotating it around.

 

I'm sure that the smoothness of the Lamy 2000 relies in large part on its foot. It's very noticeable under a lens. (Though they they certainly do a damn good job of polishing their tipping too.)

 

I've also found that with my JoWo steel nibs, of which I have about twenty, and which sometimes have slight variations in their tipping-shape, the smoothest ones out of the box came with somewhat more of a foot.

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I'm sure that the smoothness of the Lamy 2000 relies in large part on its foot. It's very noticeable under a lens. (Though they they certainly do a damn good job of polishing their tipping too.)

 

I've also found that with my JoWo steel nibs, of which I have about twenty, and which sometimes have slight variations in their tipping-shape, the smoothest ones out of the box came with somewhat more of a foot.

 

It has nothing to do with the foot. Round nibs can be easily as smooth as flat ones. It's just how they grind them. It's definitely cheaper and more consistent to grind them a little flat, but in my mind, unless we're talking stubs or obliques, I quite hate an overly flat foot, since it makes the pen sensitive to rotation for no benefit in line variation or smoothness.

 

My pilot 14k SF is just as smooth as my lamy 2000 EF, and it has no flat spot at all.

Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)

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Buff stick = micro-mesh?

If so the wrong end of a buff stick can change a lot in 10 seconds.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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Wow, a lot of very strong opinions for a simple “help” question.

I’ll close out here with some thoughts:

Care must be taken with buff boards. They have value because of their three grades of coarseness.

The danger is that they are mounted on a foam board, the surface has give to it. Too much pressure can in effect wrap around the nib and cut material off front back and sides. I use them for cutting down nibs, but with a very light touch and constant checking.

Micro mesh or Brown paper bags on a hard surface(hard cover book, countertop) will allow a more controlled tuning and focus your efforts in the area of the tipping material that you want to effect.

Smooth in itself is not always good. You can over polish and cause poor quality ink lines.

A nib will tell you what it needs. Be a “Nib Ninja” practice focusing. Concentrate and focus on the feel of the nib as it glides over the surface of the paper. Use constant checking, light strokes. This will yeald the best writing experience in the end.

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Old Salt is much more informed than I. :thumbup: Very, very good advice.

 

Mostly, I just removed drag from old pens......very seldom did butter smooth..... :rolleyes: too much work, when 'good&smooth' the stage under butter smooth worked well for me, and didn't require a lot of work.

 

Learning by others folks mistakes is lots cheaper than learning by your own....of course learning from others often takes a bit of re-reading to make it stick as much as one 'learning experience'. :unsure:

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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It has nothing to do with the foot. Round nibs can be easily as smooth as flat ones. It's just how they grind them. It's definitely cheaper and more consistent to grind them a little flat, but in my mind, unless we're talking stubs or obliques, I quite hate an overly flat foot, since it makes the pen sensitive to rotation for no benefit in line variation or smoothness.

 

My pilot 14k SF is just as smooth as my lamy 2000 EF, and it has no flat spot at all.

 

You're missing the point. Nibs can be perfectly smooth, as you say, without a hint of a foot, but a foot is one way to do it. It has to be done right, of course, or you'll get sharp edges, and a foot limits the sweet spot.

 

John Mottishaw writes:

 

Creating a foot. The foot will act as a plane under which the ink will flow. When working with a light pressure, on the right paper and at the right angle, the nib will hydroplane. This effect can happen for one person and not for another. It also can be elusive. The "flat" necessary for this effect, if it has sharp edges can catch and drag. A tip with a foot can be heaven or hell.

- https://www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/smoothing-scratchy-nibs

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Having a foot just means you have to hold your pen at a very consistent angle and your writing style cannot include rotating your wrist while righting for the pen to work properly for you.

 

I find polishing a nib and knife/tool edge grinding has a lot of similarities. While the grit matters, backing material of the abrasive will also affect the result.

 

btw, any kind of abrasive can change the tipping material..the only difference is how long it's going to take.

 

Looking at the image posted, your nib honestly isn't affected too badly, I wouldn't worry too much about it as long as it works right for you.

 

If you want to experiment, try tunning Jinhao or bock/Jowo nibs can be fun. It takes some patience and thinking to get the result that you would want. but in general.

 

I found extra fine buffing stick to be a very convenient tool if all you want is to smooth out the nib a bit.

 

Micromesh is good for general nib smoothing. but just remember that it's a cloth backed abrasive, so you will not get a very defined edge out of it. (good if you are looking for a smoothness, not so great if you are looking for something else)

 

And mylar paper is pretty good at reshaping a nib to the exact shape you want, given you take caution at what you plan to do with it.

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Your flat foot can have rounded edges to make the writing smoother. Think of it as a smooth transition from the flat foot transitioning smoothly to other parts of the nib.

 

If it is a flat foot with defined and sharp edges with no transition, it might scratch papers and also provide feedback.

 

A flat foot isn't anything bad. The critical part is how it is surrounded. Slightly round the sides will be great and allows for natural and inevitable rolling of pen while writing. And now you will have rounded parameters and a defined writing surface on the nib.

 

Some pens have rather flat writing surfaces factory ground too. But are artfully transitioned to other parts of the nib that are not the writing surfaces.

 

As you are polishing on micromesh or any abrasive, you are constantly changing your line width too, it can be finer and broader, depending on how your polish it (where does the flat foot end?) because the nib surface contact with paper will be changed.

 

Absorbent and softer papers may not reflect the small change but the change will be reflected by harder and non absorbent papers like Rhodia.

 

The answer to your question: no, flat foot isn't necessarily bad. It is how you 'fence' it.

 

Same goes for inner tines, there has to be a slight rounded transition, especially when the nib slit is widened for heavier ink flow, because now the inner tines are exposed to paper.

 

But this amount and degree of 'round' is not easy to get perfectly with micromesh.

 

In essence, by using micromesh, you are already creating countless flat feet of different sizes, each competing to see which is bigger and sharper. And they will translate to feedback or scratch, depending on the extent of the flat foot.

 

The flat foot that you created is the biggest one on the nib, and that serves as a writing surface.

 

I still stand by this: do not play with micromesh (on expensive pens) :)

Edited by minddance
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My German '50-70 era semi-flex are all stubs....which is as flat footed as you can go....but the whole nib is flat....not a flat spot on the American Bump Under.

 

My 120 school pen has a flat spot across the the lower third of the round face of the American Bump Under tipped nib. My Geha school pens don't have that. So Pelikan was looking for that grind on the 120. I'd not noticed it make me do anything different. Could have been to get the kids use to a writing angle so they could slide into the stubbed semi-flex nibs.

No one ground that nib, it is as it came from the factory....still has full gold plating.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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