Just Got This "nos" Parker 51 Aerometric On Ebay, But...

[chunya]

I agree with Jerome Tarshis, I've seen this happen, and not only with pens. In the early 1970s when I was a young man I worked in a menswear shop. A customer would like an off the peg suit but the waistcoat might be too tight, so we'd exchange it for another. Another customer would find the trouser waist too loose, so we'd swap with another suit. Another customer might find the jacket too snug, and so on. By the time the range was reduced to a couple of suits you can imagine that none were original, completely mis-matched, but still new.

[Nelson_Baboon]

I think we are stumbling on the word "new." A pen can be new, never sold, never written with except for trying it out in the shop, without having the same nib it had when it left the factory.

 

As one who lived and used fountain pens in the Good Old Days, I can attest that shop clerks would change nibs to satisfy a customer. Happy with the color, but the nib is too wide? (Or too narrow?) No problem. I'll just take this nib that's right for you out of the pen with the wrong color, so now you'll like both the color and the nib.

 

And then the original nib goes into the other pen. Both pens are still new. Never sold, never filled with ink. New. But not with the same nib as the one that left the factory.

 

In my own experience it can be more than two pens and two nibs. When people really get started, there can be a whole spectrum of pens and nibs lying on the counter, pull one out, put this one in. Put another one in. Keep trying. I don't say it happened often, but I wouldn't think it was super-rare that a nib from a Special got into a 51 Deluxe (with Lustraloy cap) or Custom (with gold-filled cap).

 

Some questions of fact do not have answers, because nobody asking the question was there to make the observation. But yes, a pen can be unused although not in every way as the factory made it.

 

That applies to caps, too. My 51s with gold-filled caps may have had Lustraloy caps when they left the factory. Or the other way around. And been new pens when they were sold.

i get your point, but isn't there the expectation that when something is sold as new, it has the original parts? again - perhaps never used, I think that there is that expectation. Despite what you're saying, I would continue to have that expectation.

[chunya]

Sadly expectations don't always match reality. The seller has offered to take it back and foot the postage costs, so if you are still really unhappy then why not take him up on his offer?

I recall that you bought 8 or 9 pens in a buying bonanza, fingers crossed that this'll be the only issue that you have

[crescentfiller]

"'The octanium (steel alloy) nibs were for the 51 Special, but some 51s apparently were fitted with them as replacement nibs.'". and that's what I'm trying to get at. as far as I can tell, a 51 that hasn't had its nib replaced, and isn't the special, should have a 14k nib. will continue to prowl. thanks for the links. I think I've already stumbled on most of them in my research, but I'm hoping to prove myself wrong here."

 

"... but I'm hoping to prove myself wrong here"

 

I don't think you'll succeed. It's pretty much accepted that the pen in question "should" have a gold nib. How it got the octanium nib is going to be tough, if not impossible, to prove. And it would seem a rather pointless exercise (pun intended!).

The seller is very reputable and has done the right thing in offering you a full refund.

Take him up on it and buy another pen--heck, maybe he has one with a gold nib you can buy!

[Nelson_Baboon]

"'The octanium (steel alloy) nibs were for the 51 Special, but some 51s apparently were fitted with them as replacement nibs.'". and that's what I'm trying to get at. as far as I can tell, a 51 that hasn't had its nib replaced, and isn't the special, should have a 14k nib. will continue to prowl. thanks for the links. I think I've already stumbled on most of them in my research, but I'm hoping to prove myself wrong here."

 

"... but I'm hoping to prove myself wrong here"

 

I don't think you'll succeed. It's pretty much accepted that the pen in question "should" have a gold nib. How it got the octanium nib is going to be tough, if not impossible, to prove. And it would seem a rather pointless exercise (pun intended!).

The seller is very reputable and has done the right thing in offering you a full refund.

Take him up on it and buy another pen--heck, maybe he has one with a gold nib you can buy!

not 'pointless' to me - it seems that it is agreed that the pen originally would have had a gold nib, and therefore that my expectation that a NOS pen would have had that, and that I wasn't therefore remiss in not noticing that this had the octanium nib. I think it's also agreed that the seller was not being dishonest in any way. So it's 'all good', and I can feel fine about returning the pen. I would not have felt quite right if my expectations were wrong, and this was a case of "buyer's remorse".

 

I will see if there is something that he has that I can exchange it for. Thanks everyone for bearing with me on this. I can see how you might think that my concerns were silloy.

[FarmBoy]

Can I see a picture of the pen?

[Nelson_Baboon]

Can I see a picture of the pen?

sure - seller posted a link to the sale earlier: https://www.ebay.com/itm/123248710138?ViewItem=&item=123248710138.

[Jerome Tarshis]

We live in such a rapidly changing world. Not only do nibs get exchanged, eBay now substitutes a different advertisement, for an as yet unsold pen, if you try to retrieve the advertisement for a pen that has sold.

 

There may be a workaround for this. But eBay doesn't want us to look at offerings for merchandise we can no longer buy. Such as the pen under discussion.

[Nelson_Baboon]

We live in such a rapidly changing world. Not only do nibs get exchanged, eBay now substitutes a different advertisement, for an as yet unsold pen, if you try to retrieve the advertisement for a pen that has sold.

 

There may be a workaround for this. But eBay doesn't want us to look at offerings for merchandise we can no longer buy. Such as the pen under discussion.

i'm confused. when i click on that ad, i get the pen that I bought.

[hood]

... eBay now substitutes a different advertisement, for an as yet unsold pen, if you try to retrieve the advertisement for a pen that has sold. There may be a workaround for this.

 

Where it says in the blue bar "The listing you’re looking for", the word 'listing' is a link that will take you to the item you actually wanted to see. It's hugely annoying that's they've made this change but what can you do.

 

 

i'm confused. when i click on that ad, i get the pen that I bought.

 

It's because you are the buyer and you're logged in, so you see the item you bought instead of being redirected to something else completely unrelated that you don't want to see.

 

 

sure - seller posted a link to the sale earlier: https://www.ebay.com/itm/123248710138?ViewItem=&item=123248710138.

 

The pen in the pictures looks to me to have the polished cap, black jewel and hoop filler of a 51 Special, to go along with the Octanium nib.

 

 

[chunya]

The Link takes us to a listing for a 'Vintage Parker 51 Jeweled Brown Pen Set' which hasn't yet ended. As Jerome Tarshis says Ebay have recently made changes so that when you try to click on a link for a sold item then you seem to be taken to a different item. It is very annoying.

 

 

Edited after reading above post

 

 

Thanks for that hood .... I'd never have worked it out for myself

 

Having seen the original listing it would seem that the seller has been as honest as reasonably possible with the description.There is possibly one valuable lesson to take from this, that is that it's best to put the energy into researching before rather than after buying something?

Edited July 31, 2018 by chunya

[Nelson_Baboon]

The Link takes us to a listing for a 'Vintage Parker 51 Jeweled Brown Pen Set' which hasn't yet ended. As Jerome Tarshis says Ebay have recently made changes so that when you try to click on a link for a sold item then you seem to be taken to a different item. It is very annoying.

 

 

Edited after reading above post

 

 

Thanks for that hood .... I'd never have worked it out for myself

 

Having seen the original listing it would seem that the seller has been as honest as reasonably possible with the description.There is possibly one valuable lesson to take from this, that is that it's best to put the energy into researching before rather than after buying something?

well, yes, but i think that one generally doesn't research stuff that one 'knows' already - like I never suspected that a 51 didn't have a gold nib. I read the ad and saw that it was nos, and was totally surprised. But sure - can't hurt to be more careful. And I agree - no deception by the seller.

[FarmBoy]

After a few to many clicks I see a what appears to be an uninked open hoop filler Green 51 with a polished cap and black jewel. I'd expect to see an Octanium nib in the pen. I note the seller stated it was Octanium as well.

 

The seller is a reputable dealer of old pens and seems to have offered to take the pen back. I don't believe this pen fits the 'not as described' option eBay offers as a reason to return the item so you are out a bit of postage to send the pen back.

[Nelson_Baboon]

After a few to many clicks I see a what appears to be an uninked open hoop filler Green 51 with a polished cap and black jewel. I'd expect to see an Octanium nib in the pen. I note the seller stated it was Octanium as well.

 

The seller is a reputable dealer of old pens and seems to have offered to take the pen back. I don't believe this pen fits the 'not as described' option eBay offers as a reason to return the item so you are out a bit of postage to send the pen back.

so this is what I don't get - why would you expect an octanium nib? Is it the Special? If so it's not as described. Otherwise, you are the first person to say that some parker 51s shipped with octanium nibs.

[hood]

Is it the Special?

 

Yes it appeared to be a 51 Special, by the polished cap, black jewel, hoop filler, and Octanium nib.

 

[crescentfiller]

I am in complete agreement with Farmboy. And, while it may have been helpful if the listing said the pen was a Special, it does say the nib is octanium and that the jewel is black. The photo shows a shiny chrome cap and a hoop filler. So, all the indicators are there. I did not see the original listing for all the reasons stated above and was responding earlier to your query about which 51s had octanium nibs. This pen does and should! It wasn't swapped in or exchanged.

The seller is entirely reliable (I've purchased pens from him before) and this pen was accurately described and displayed, so you have no cause for complaint, especially as he is willing to eat the return postage if you choose to return it (if you didn't ink it).

 

So, why not fill it with ink, start writing, and enjoy an excellent pen you got at a decent price from a great seller!

[twism94]

The buyer just filed" Not as Described "request with ebay. I will not issue refund , because it was described properly. Unbelievable.

[hood]

I do not believe the pen was incorrectly described, the photos were very clear.

[Nelson_Baboon]

I do not believe the pen was incorrectly described, the photos were very clear.

wow. item was a Special. Seller denied that it was a special (above) and to me personally after the purchase. The Special was a cheaper version of the 51. If I were to place an ad, I would clearly mention this.

 

I can see that I don't have status here. I will refile with another description, but I'm pretty angry about this, and the fact that I'm being portrayed somehow as disreputable.

[twism94]

I offer FREE returns BOTH ways, but right now its a matter of principal and integrity. I will not issue refund for NASD period. I would have for any other reason. I been doing pens for 21 years and i still dont get what buyers issue is in this matter.

Edited July 31, 2018 by twism94