Just Got This "nos" Parker 51 Aerometric On Ebay, But...

July 31, 2018

I'm a little hesitant to post, since I've been away from fountain pens for years, and I might be missing something obvious. I've been researching it here and elsewhere, and from what I've come up with thus far, the production parker 51 nib was always 14k gold. There was a cheaper version called the Special that had an octanium nib, but this item wasn't advertised as such, and the seller says that it wasn't that model.

So, NOS means that hasn't been used, and I assume not restored, etc, so I had absolutely no expectation that the nib wouldn't be gold.

Well, it isn't gold, and I now see in his ad that the nib is octanium. So, if what I've come up with is true, this can't be the original nib? Or can it?

I know that it's apparently not an issue of which writes more smoothly - solely an issue of getting what I paid for, and the fact that I prefer the aesthetics of the gold appearance.

am I off base here?

July 31, 2018

The seller likely was wrong, but not because they were being deceitful, but because they probably read what was on the filler, an inscription which says Parker 51 and makes no mention it is a Parker 51 Special. They likely expected that the filler would not say this if it was a Parker 51 Special, but some do.

July 31, 2018

The seller likely was wrong, but not because they were being deceitful, but because they probably read what was on the filler, an inscription which says Parker 51 and makes no mention it is a Parker 51 Special. They likely expected that the filler would not say this if it was a Parker 51 Special, but some do.

ah, in fact that's what he said: "Special 51 is always marked on filling unit"

thanks. I've always been a fair trader, and I want to be fair to the seller. but yeah - something seems off here.

July 31, 2018

Hello Gang, Pashka is here. I am the seller of above mentioned pen: here is the link

https://www.ebay.com/itm/123248710138?ViewItem=&item=123248710138.

I do not understand where i am at fault at this matter. Nib clearly states Octanium in description and pictures from all angles shows the same. I offered full refund if pen was not inked.

Am i missing something?

July 31, 2018

Hello Gang, Pashka is here. I am the seller of above mentioned pen: here is the link
https://www.ebay.com/itm/123248710138?ViewItem=&item=123248710138.

I do not understand where i am at fault at this matter. Nib clearly states Octanium in description and pictures from all angles shows the same. I offered full refund if pen was not inked.
Am i missing something?

hi. thanks for responding. No accusations on this end.

I'm just saying that if Parker did indeed ship some 51s with octanium nibs, then I will keep it. But (mostly from info I've picked up here) it seems like only some pre-production test models, and the special, shipped with non-gold nibs.

PLEASE someone correct me if I'm wrong.

If that is correct, then how could a NOS Parker 51 have an Octanium nib? again - that may be my own lack of understanding of the concepts, and/or the history.

No accusations. I don't like to return stuff if I'm in the wrong, but if I'm in the right, then well, ....i just want the facts.

July 31, 2018

Parker 51 has numerous variants, from you post it looks like you implying that this is not Parker 51 at all, but some kind of impostor . I really dont see that i did something wrong or even described it wrong. I know there is issue of buyers remorse, but.... I want to stress it out again: if its uninked i will gladly take it back. No big deal for me, nor the money will break me

There is not many NOS 51s around now days.

hi. thanks for responding. No accusations on this end.

I'm just saying that if Parker did indeed ship some 51s with octanium nibs, then I will keep it. But (mostly from info I've picked up here) it seems like only some pre-production test models, and the special, shipped with non-gold nibs.

PLEASE someone correct me if I'm wrong.

If that is correct, then how could a NOS Parker 51 have an Octanium nib? again - that may be my own lack of understanding of the concepts, and/or the history.

No accusations. I don't like to return stuff if I'm in the wrong, but if I'm in the right, then well, ....i just want the facts.

July 31, 2018

I have Free 30 day returns if it returned in original condition. The value in this pen is being NOS.

July 31, 2018

Parker 51 has numerous variants, from you post it looks like you implying that this is not Parker 51 at all, but some kind of impostor . I really dont see that i did something wrong or even described it wrong. I know there is issue of buyers remorse, but.... I want to stress it out again: if its uninked i will gladly take it back. No big deal for me, nor the money will break me
There is not many NOS 51s around now days.

now wait a minute. there is no "buyer's remorse". I want a parker 51. And I would have nothing against getting one from you. I want the facts here - from what I can tell, a parker 51 that has not been 'edited' in any way, should have a gold nib. Please someone, disabuse me of that fact!

July 31, 2018

I've seen 51s with octanium nibs.

http://www.peytonstreetpens.com/parker/parker-51/parker-51-aerometric-demi-pen-set-post-1952-black-lustraloy-cap-0-9mm-lead-fine-octanium-nib-excellent-in-box-works-well.html

http://www.peytonstreetpens.com/parker/parker-51/parker-51-vacumatic-fountain-pen-1947-jewelers-band-cap-medium-black-very-nice-restored.html

Edited July 31, 2018 by steve50

July 31, 2018

I've seen 51s with octanium nibs.

were they originally that way, or were the nibs replaced? I read something on this forum about how this was only the case sometimes if they were restored with another nib.

I just really want to ascertain if this is a full parker 51, because if it is, I'll keep it, and give great feedback to the seller, whom I believe to be honest. I mean, these are cheap enough, that I'll just get another one at some point. But I don't want to ink it up until I'm sure of the facts.

sorry if this seems obnoxious.

July 31, 2018

I dont beleive i ever heard the term full 51 really

July 31, 2018

were they originally that way, or were the nibs replaced? I read something on this forum about how this was only the case sometimes if they were restored with another nib.

I just really want to ascertain if this is a full parker 51, because if it is, I'll keep it, and give great feedback to the seller, whom I believe to be honest. I mean, these are cheap enough, that I'll just get another one at some point. But I don't want to ink it up until I'm sure of the facts.

sorry if this seems obnoxious.

hmm actually I don't know. Why don't you just return the pen if you are not sure?

July 31, 2018

hmm actually I don't know. Why don't you just return the pen if you are not sure?

if i'm in the right, i don't want to pay shipping to return it (perhaps that's silly) if I'm in the wrong, i'm fine with keeping it, since it apparently doesn't affect the writing. A good point, though - I don't like to return things if I'm in the wrong, because if so - yes, the seller clearly indicated that it was not a gold nib, and the fact that this was so contrary to my expectation that I didn't even look for it is irrelevant.

mostly at this point - I'd like to clear it up. I continue to research it online and I cannot find any indication that the production 51 used anything but a 14k nib.

July 31, 2018

I dont beleive i ever heard the term full 51 really

production 51? What term would you like? I"m just trying to differentiate a production unit, as actually shipped, from a different model (like the special), or one that has had its nib replaced. Sorry if I'm being inarticulate.

July 31, 2018

I have FREE shipping both ways , common man. Its only cost $2.66 anyway . This pen was NOT altered in any way it is NEw Old Stock.

July 31, 2018

I've seen 51s with octanium nibs.

http://www.peytonstreetpens.com/parker/parker-51/parker-51-aerometric-demi-pen-set-post-1952-black-lustraloy-cap-0-9mm-lead-fine-octanium-nib-excellent-in-box-works-well.html

http://www.peytonstreetpens.com/parker/parker-51/parker-51-vacumatic-fountain-pen-1947-jewelers-band-cap-medium-black-very-nice-restored.html

thanks for the links. the second one's nib looks like gold though?

July 31, 2018

I have FREE shipping both ways , common man. Its only cost $2.66 anyway . This pen was NOT altered in any way it is NEw Old Stock.

Cool. thanks. I guarantee you that if I went to my local ups store it would cost much more than that...but that's fine.

again- no accusations. I'm just at this point very curious. I mean, I've found people here, and elsewhere stating pretty definitively that all of the parker 51's had 14k nibs. maybe we should take this part of it offline again. I think you're being honest, I know I"m being honest, and (perhaps I"m just being silly) I don't feel right about returning it, even for free, if I'm in the wrong here.

I'm hoping that someone can offer a definitive opinion, and I"ve emailed one dealer of vintage pens that I've bought a bunch of stuff from, also.

in any case - please don't take offense. I was not publicly accusing you of anything (no link was posted). If I do return it, I'd gladly exchange it with you. I think that's be right.

July 31, 2018

More on this topic:

www.fountainpennetwork.com › The Fountain Pen Network › Brand Focus › Parker

Aug 5, 2009 - Page 1 of 2 - Parker 51 Gold vs. Octanium Nib - posted in Parker: I have a parker 51that I adore, but the nib is too fine. It's not scratchy, but just ...

Parker 51 (Not A Special) With A Steel Nib? - Parker

Mar 27, 2011

Parker "51" Octanium Nib - History: Parts and tools

Dec 16, 2010

Did Parker 51's come with Octanium nibs? - Parker

Mar 28, 2010

Octanium nib versus 14K nib on the 51? - Parker

Feb 25, 2007

More results from www.fountainpennetwork.com

parker51.com/index.php/education/faq/

Most Parker “51” did come with a 14k nib. But, in 1950 Parker introduced the Special “51” with an Octanium nib, a steel alloy. Most of these pens are marked ...

From richardspens.com

“51” Special A reduced-cost version of the Parker “51”, introduced in 1950. The “51” Special looks outwardly very much like a standard “51”, but it has an Octanium (stainless steel) nib and the non-Aero-metric hoop filler that was initially used in the “21”. Other cost-saving measures were a limited choice of colors, a bright-polished stainless-steel cap, and a black cap jewel. Late examples of the “51” Special came in more colors and with a gold nib and a matte cap with a gray jewel, but these pens still retained the cheaper filler. See also Aero-metric, “51”, hoop, Octanium.

It is interesting that the links to peytonstreetpens include a 1947 Parker 51 with an octanium nib, an alloy that was offered beginning in 1950. The other link, to a "post 1952" non-Special 51 pen, includes the comment "This pen is a bit unusual because it doesn't have a gold nib."

July 31, 2018

More on this topic:

www.fountainpennetwork.com › The Fountain Pen Network › Brand Focus › Parker

Aug 5, 2009 - Page 1 of 2 - Parker 51 Gold vs. Octanium Nib - posted in Parker: I have a parker 51that I adore, but the nib is too fine. It's not scratchy, but just ...
Parker 51 (Not A Special) With A Steel Nib? - Parker
Mar 27, 2011
Parker "51" Octanium Nib - History: Parts and tools
Dec 16, 2010
Did Parker 51's come with Octanium nibs? - Parker
Mar 28, 2010
Octanium nib versus 14K nib on the 51? - Parker
Feb 25, 2007
More results from www.fountainpennetwork.com

parker51.com/index.php/education/faq/

Most Parker “51” did come with a 14k nib. But, in 1950 Parker introduced the Special “51” with an Octanium nib, a steel alloy. Most of these pens are marked ...

From richardspens.com

“51” Special A reduced-cost version of the Parker “51”, introduced in 1950. The “51” Special looks outwardly very much like a standard “51”, but it has an Octanium (stainless steel) nib and the non-Aero-metric hoop filler that was initially used in the “21”. Other cost-saving measures were a limited choice of colors, a bright-polished stainless-steel cap, and a black cap jewel. Late examples of the “51” Special came in more colors and with a gold nib and a matte cap with a gray jewel, but these pens still retained the cheaper filler. See also Aero-metric, “51”, hoop, Octanium.

It is interesting that the links to peytonstreetpens include a 1947 Parker 51 with an octanium nib, an alloy that was offered beginning in 1950. The other link, to a "post 1952" non-Special 51 pen, includes the comment "This pen is a bit unusual because it doesn't have a gold nib."

"The octanium (steel alloy) nibs were for the 51 Special, but some 51s apparently were fitted with them as replacement nibs.". and that's what I'm trying to get at. as far as I can tell, a 51 that hasn't had its nib replaced, and isn't the special, should have a 14k nib. will continue to prowl. thanks for the links. I think I've already stumbled on most of them in my research, but I'm hoping to prove myself wrong here.

July 31, 2018

I think we are stumbling on the word "new." A pen can be new, never sold, never written with except for trying it out in the shop, without having the same nib it had when it left the factory.

As one who lived and used fountain pens in the Good Old Days, I can attest that shop clerks would change nibs to satisfy a customer. Happy with the color, but the nib is too wide? (Or too narrow?) No problem. I'll just take this nib that's right for you out of the pen with the wrong color, so now you'll like both the color and the nib.

And then the original nib goes into the other pen. Both pens are still new. Never sold, never filled with ink. New. But not with the same nib as the one that left the factory.

In my own experience it can be more than two pens and two nibs. When people really get started, there can be a whole spectrum of pens and nibs lying on the counter, pull one out, put this one in. Put another one in. Keep trying. I don't say it happened often, but I wouldn't think it was super-rare that a nib from a Special got into a 51 Deluxe (with Lustraloy cap) or Custom (with gold-filled cap).

Some questions of fact do not have answers, because nobody asking the question was there to make the observation. But yes, a pen can be unused although not in every way as the factory made it.

That applies to caps, too. My 51s with gold-filled caps may have had Lustraloy caps when they left the factory. Or the other way around. And been new pens when they were sold.