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Bad Ink + Pen Combinations


adim

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Hello everybody!

 

I'm not sure whether this has been discussed before, I have only found some instances of this topic, so I decided to open this myself.

 

So, I have read some users' complaints that there are some orange inks (including Montblanc's) that somehow crystalyze in pens with time, clogging or even eroding the feed or nib. Then there are questions like "Is it safe to use ink X in pen Y?", a most recent example I read was about Pelikan's Edelstein Tanzanite in a vintage Montblanc 142 or, more generally, if only Montblanc inks should be used in Montblanc pens, discussion just opened here.

 

Therefore, I thought we should centralize such discussions with bad, i.e. damaging, to some extent, experiences you had with particular inks in particular pens.

 

Maybe it's better to leave permanent, iron gall enriched, scented and other special kinds of inks aside for this discussion, because I guess those should be treated with extra care anyway.

 

Also, my hypothesis is that the more sheen an ink has, the more careful the user must be when cleaning it from the pen and leaving it inside without writing. I'm thinking that maybe sheen is due to some added solid micro particles to the ink.

 

Therefore, what combinations of ink + pen have you found to be "bad", e.g. staining the barrel or ink window, clogging the feed quicker than expected, giving excessive nib creep, you name the problems you had.

 

Or maybe is such a discussion worthless, as writing (almost) daily and flushing the pen monthly is guaranteed to not lead to any kinds of problems?

 

I'm asking as I don't have much experience with inks in general, I have only used Montblanc, Lamy and Parker, but I would like to learn and try more.

Edited by adim
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Inks that contain yellow or orange dyes are known to crust around glass bottle threads and caps, and over time will also crust on some nibs. It depends on the pen, how tightly it's cap seals, and how long you leave the ink in the pen. They all cause some "crud."

 

Very saturated & highly sheeny inks might also cause clogging and crud. It depends how badly you want to use them and whether you're prepared to have them dry out a little in your pen. If I'm using O.S. Nitrogen, Ralph Emerson or Henry Thoreau, I expect to have to dip the nib in some water to get it going again if it's been sitting around with those inks in there for over a week or so. Especially when the temperatures here are in the high 20's and low 30's Celsius like they have been for two months.

 

I was gifted a bottle of J.Herbin 1670 Rouge Hematite version 1. No gold particles in the bottom of the bottle, but some sheeny "sludge." It really bunged up one of my Sheaffer Targa's. I would suggest that ink needs a pen that you can dismantle completely.

 

Some say that Noodler's BayState Blue is best kept to a specific pen, as it will stain everything.

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Some say that Noodler's BayState Blue is best kept to a specific pen, as it will stain everything.

 

Not only that. It also does not play well with other inks (except for the ones in the Bay State Series) because it's so alkaline -- so keeping it in a dedicated pen means that you won't have to worry about bad chemical interactions between it and whatever was in the pen before it (or after it).

For me the two inks I had the most trouble with were Noodler's Whaleman's Sepia (which would NOT flow and just sort of clung to the ink chamber walls for dear life -- quite disappointing, since it's a very interesting color); and Noodler's La Reine Mauve (nib creep, section creep, how the [expletive deleted did it end up on the HEEL of my hand creep...). But I love most of the Noodler's inks I've tried.

I also was very underwhelmed recently by Robert Oster Black Violet. I had it in a newly reissued French-made Parker Vector with a medium nib, and the ink was dry, dry, dry. I may have enough of the sample left to try it in a wet pen, but the Vector didn't have a problem with whatever I had in it initially, as I recall -- so I can't tell if it's a dry pen as well.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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No, sheen has nothing to do with solid microparticles, solid microparticles are only found in carbon/ pigment ink (i.e. the carbon/ pigment) and in glitter ink (i.e. the glitter).

Sheen occurs when an ink has a higher dye concentration/ is very saturated (therefore a pen can clog faster than with less saturated inks), and it occurs mostly on non-absorbent/ coated paper, because when ink gets on the paper, the part that isn't soaked into the paper but stays on top, that's the sheen and that's why coated paper shows more sheen. The top part that sheens is simply all the water evaporated and the dye itself highly concentrated "sitting" on the paper. The higher concentrated a colour is, the more it appears to be a whole other colour (e.g. blues looking red). This is mentioned by some members here who've experimented with making ink, in this thread

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/332583-failed-experiments-starting-with-dye-powders-and-distilled-water/

 

Also see this thread on sheen

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/333413-why-do-inks-sheen/

 

A famous pen restorer & whiz Julia Gusano goes as far as saying that black ink is the worst you can put into a fpen and that one should stick with blue ink - black ink has a higher concentration in dye than other inks, so can mess up a pen more if neglected (see here https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/308366-is-black-ink-the-worst-for-fpens/ )

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Chrissy: Thank you very much for the details. I didn't know that yellow or orange dyes generally lead to this problem. Also, I think I heard before about J. Herbin inks leaving some kind of slur in pens.

 

Ruth: Thank you for the examples!

 

Olya: Great resources and explanations, thank you for that!

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You're welcome!

 

Also on flushing pens, that's also not necessary at all unless you want to change ink or have fussier inks that do need pen maintenance (eg pigment inks). That's also mentioned in the last thread I linked to.

Taking a pen apart for cleaning is even less necessary and just creates problems down the line. A pen should only be taken apart when absolutely necessary and no other method has remedied a problem.

As school kid, we used washable blue inks in carts and I don't think that anyone ever cleaned their fpens... When my pen dried up over the long summer school break, I'd just pop in a new cart, squeeze the new cart until the ink flowed and that was that!

 

I haven't yet had a bad pen + ink combo, so can't give much advice on that front. The only experience I had is that I think it's true that Pilot inks are a touch more watery/ runnier than others. When I used my Waterman Hemisphere, the uncapping was so "violent" that the Pilot Blue would end up as drops on the nib and even at times a splatter on paper or two, luckily no uncontrolled flow, but I didn't use this combo for too long. I have not had this problem at all with the combo Waterman Hemisphere + Parker Quink Permanent Blue.

 

I mainly use blue inks with blue black occasionally and at times black. Blues in all shades.

 

I've settled as my main pens on Sailor & Pilot, as well as Pelikan, Sheaffer & Parker.

 

I think Diamine Sapphire Blue was about to stain my Pelikan m205 ink window, I freaked and cleaned it out. No staining with J Herbin Eclat de Saphir in that Pelikan.

Pilot Blue, Blue Black & Monteverde Horizon Blue also didn't stain my Pelikan ink windows.

 

I'm more careful to avoid staining with my white Sailor & Pelikan ink windows, so don't like to put possibly problematic (i.e. staining) inks in them. But I also don't have any of the possible problematic inks.

Edited by Olya
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Based on my personal experience, somehow the Pilot Metropolitan (F) + Noodler's Black combination seems off.

There are other story with similar experience .

 

Edit : It's not a bad combination as in making the pen unusable but it's a bad combination in regards to making both the pen and the ink perform in lower level than they could have

Edited by penzel_washinkton
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In my case, I think the most important possible problem is staining the ink window, as I'm using two Montblanc 146 and one 149. The ink window was a deciding factor for my purchase and I love this nice feat. I don't think there are other problems that I should be worried about, more so since I don't intend to use permanent or any special inks.

 

Also, I write daily with all 3 and in almost one year, I haven't been away more than 1 week without writing with them.

 

So I may be overly cautious here. But I also see this discussion as a learning opportunity. :)

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I have rarely run across a bad ink or even a bad pen, but I have had some pen and ink combinations that just don't work. For example I have a wonderful Lamy Al-Star with a fine nib. It is a great pen - but just a bit on the dry side, which is great to use when I absolutely can not have any bleedthrough. I recently paired it with Montblanc Burgundy Red for some mark-up work that I was doing. That was a mistake - this somewhat dry pen with a dry ink was just not at all fun to work with. I ended up cleaning it out and putting in Pilot Iro. Yama Budo instead which worked wonderfully. I still use the Montblanc Burgundy Red, but in another pen that isn't so dry.

 

Then there are times when a pen/ink combo just doesn't work for unexplainable reasons. That is the case with one of my Pilot Vanishing Point with fine nib and Pilot Iroshizuku Shin-Ryoku. These two do not like each other. I can use most other inks in this pen with no problems, and I can use Shin-Ryoku in any other pen, including my other Pilot VPs and it is flawless. But together, I have dry starts, skipping, blobbing, and other malfunctions.

"Today will be gone in less than 24 hours. When it is gone, it is gone. Be wise, but enjoy! - anonymous today

 

 

 

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For me, it would be dry pens + light/shadey inks. I would avoid staining inks.

 

After experimenting with some pens and inks and papers, I prefer dry and fine pens with dark, flowy and saturated inks.

 

Wet pens would take most inks. And my papers have high capacity for ink so I am not worried about bleedthrough or feathering most of the time.

 

It is the light, weak, 'transparent' or 'translucent' shadey watercolours that irk me.

Edited by minddance
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