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Pelikan 400Nn, Does This Look Correct?

pelikan 400nn oblique fine bent nib

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33 replies to this topic

#1 BlueJ

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 00:22

I just bought a 400NN tortoise with an OF nib from a well-known European dealer/member. He supplied several top and bottom-view photos which looked perfect, but when the pen arrived the side view turned out to be this:IMG_1296.JPG

 

Surely the nib should not be bent down so far! Should I send it to a nibmeister to straighten? If so, whom would you Pelikaners recommend (I am in the US.) The pen writes semi-decently but is quite dry and a bit scratchy (perhaps due just to the dryness.) Apart from the bent nib it is quite a nice pen and I would rather not send it back for a refund. I may ask the seller for a partial refund to cover the repairs.

 

I prefer not to name the seller until he has a chance to respond to my concerns. Any opinions or advice on this forum would be welcome.

 

Thanks,

BlueJ



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#2 TorPelikan

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 01:34

Hello,

 

You may feel the nib to be bent, but it's sometimes normal in Pelikan 400NNs.

Here's some comments about the nib shape. (sorry written in Japanese)

 

And, my 400NN tortoise looks just similar to yours.

The scratchiness may be due to misalignment or rough surface of the pen point.

Of course, nibmeisters can improve the writing quality, but I think they do not need to straighten the nib.

 

 

regards,



#3 BlueJ

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 02:40

Thank you; the side view shown on the Japanese site is indeed quite similar to mine. Still, I wonder if this is typical of these pens. I have seen a few other vintage pens with this downward bend, but none so extreme until now.  I still think my 400NN will need some professional adjustment for greater flow, if nothing else.

 

Any other opinions?



#4 DrCodfish

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 03:12

I just took a look at mine, the nib droops a little but not so much as yours.  Still I think your writing issues could easily be corrected by a competent nibmiester.  I Have used the services of many here in the US.  Where are you in Washington?



#5 BlueJ

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 05:20

I am on the east side of Washington State, but am quite comfortable shipping pens around the country. I have sent pens to Dan Smith and Mark Bacas before and would consider either again, or try others.

 

After sitting inked for a few hours the pen is writing much better. It is still not a gusher but that is just as well in the finer sizes to maintain the definition of the line. there is still some feedback and "singing" as the nib moves across paper but it is acceptable, so I am no longer sure I will send the pen out for work. I will ask the seller what he thinks about it.



#6 Chrissy

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 05:32

I have 3 Pelikan M400N pens and none of my nibs droop as much as the pen in your picture. They are all straight.

 

It must affect your writing angle. Can you see the tip when you're writing?



#7 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 10:46

I had a similar bend in a Parker Vac, I took a stack of paper....a spiral notebook will do, laid the nib on the edge of it, with a slight tad of downwards pressure...., a drill bit end, and massaged the nib straight.

It's that or a nibmeister, in the tip is bent too much.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#8 Chrissy

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 10:58

I would use a book for straightening the whole end of the nib too.

 

For tines out of line, I use two wooden cocktail sticks and press them together gently.



#9 jmccarty3

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 15:49

This nib is bent quite a bit more than my 400NNs. I would have a nibmeister work on it.


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#10 BlueJ

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 15:58

Chrissy:

Do you mean M400 or 400N, 400NN? I don't think there is a Pelikan called "M400N." Certainly the modern pens should have straight nibs.

 

Perhaps the hook-nosed vintage examples out there have all been damaged at some time in their history?

 

To answer your question, I normally hold a pen at about 50° from the horizontal, 40° from the vertical.  At that angle I can still see the tip of this 400NN. I find myself perhaps holding the back end of this pen a little lower than usual, but not significantly. The required rotation around the pen's axis (normal for obliques) affects its writing much more.

 

The pen is still a little dry and not as flexible as some posts here have led me to expect. Perhaps both issues are due to the bend?



#11 BlueJ

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 16:39

To answer the other comments, I think this is too nice a pen to risk my own inept repair efforts on it. If I decide it must be straightened I will send it to a professional nib expert.

 

The seller says his pen restorer thought this nib was OK as-is and is only offering me return and refund as an option, presumably with shipping at my expense. He may be pretty much within his rights and I am going to keep the pen, as I quite like it.  I will ask Dan Smith what he thinks.

 

Thanks all for the input.

J



#12 Chrissy

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 17:15

Chrissy:

Do you mean M400 or 400N, 400NN? I don't think there is a Pelikan called "M400N." Certainly the modern pens should have straight nibs.

 

Perhaps the hook-nosed vintage examples out there have all been damaged at some time in their history?

 

To answer your question, I normally hold a pen at about 50° from the horizontal, 40° from the vertical.  At that angle I can still see the tip of this 400NN. I find myself perhaps holding the back end of this pen a little lower than usual, but not significantly. The required rotation around the pen's axis (normal for obliques) affects its writing much more.

 

The pen is still a little dry and not as flexible as some posts here have led me to expect. Perhaps both issues are due to the bend?

 

I probably mean M400 or 400N I think I have both.

 

It's probably bent more than it was originally.  :) Assuming it's a gold nib, straightening it shouldn't be too difficult.



#13 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 22:45

There is of course a 400n.....1955 model. The 400 '50-54....the 400nn '56-65,

400n = 400 new model. 400nn= 400 new, new model.

 

I have a 400 tortoise '54 transition ....that I had hoped was as I bought it a 400n. It had Pelikan written on the cap band.....It had no nib marking on the barrel. It had nib size on the nib.

 

It is for me hard to see the tiny bit of difference in the piston cap, between the 400 and 400n.

But, the standard sized 400n has a longer pen cap :crybaby: ..........which actually posted has the same length as the medium long 400nn. Which has the same size cap as the 400. The 400nn also had Pelikan 400 on the cap band, and size marked on the nib.

 

The 400nn, had a 'more modern' torpedo shape that was so In in the '50's. Swan, MB, Geha, some Osmia pens.........

 

My 400nn is a maxi-semi-flex. My other '50-54 400's are semi-flex.

There no markings stating semi or maxi on German pens of that era outside of Osmia. So it is pure luck of the draw if one gets a maxi.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 23 July 2018 - 10:13.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#14 biancitwo

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 03:10

BlueJ: I hope you have it adjusted. The 400NN is a spectacular pen, and should be maintained in the best condition. I have three, and none have that much bend. None of them are dry writers. They all also have excellent fine or EF lines, with flex for wonderful line variation. I imagine the downward turn on yours would limit any flex. Look forward to your experiencing your pen as it is meant to be. The 400NN is my favorite Pelikan, and Pelikan my favorite pen.

#15 OMASsimo

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 23:58

Of my numerous Pelikan pens, including some 400nn's, none has a nib bent down like this. It's obviously a tweak (or a mishap) by a former user. It will limit ink flow a flex if you don't straighten it back to it's original shape. It's not terribly difficult to do this yourself if you're halfway dexterous. If you don't dare to do it yourself, any repair service of nib meister should be able to fix this easily.



#16 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 10:41

Mishap....in no such tweak would make sense.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#17 BlueJ

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 15:23

I am going to send the 400NN out for straightening and any needed adjustment. My first-choice nibmaster (Dan Smith) is not taking new jobs at this time, so I will try Mark Bacas or another US-based expert.  I will post the outcome.



#18 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 11:43

Sound decision.............a Medium-long 400nn is IMO a very great pen, that holds much more ink than any other Pelikan.....has great balance. Took me @ 2 years to finally give the nod in balance to the 400nn over the 400.

The nib will be semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex.

Those Are NOT......"FLEX" nibs..................almost flex, and a bit more flexi than semi-flex.

A 'Flex' pen/ superflex has a tine spread of 4, mostly 5-6 or very rarely 7X unless you watch someone spring the nib for you on Ebay or Youtube.

Regular flex like a 200 or 97-82 semi-vintage, '50-65 semi-flex/maxi-semi-flex are part of a 3 X tine spread vs a light line set. Don't push them beyond that.

 

Semi-flex gives you that old fashioned fountain pens style, with out doing anything. With practice one can do a fancy decender.....but it is not a super-flex one needs for fancy.

Maxi-semi-flex will give you the fancy decenders easier than semi-flex.

Maxi....is pure luck of the draw in the '50-60's era....out side of Osmia where a number in a small diamond is semi-flex and a nib with Supra on it, big diamond or no, is maxi.

Out side of Osmia maybe 1 nib in 5 is a maxi.

 

You do have to have a regular flex nib....Esterbrook, or Wearever or Sheaffer of the '50-60's or a Pelikan 120/200. That is the base nib for measuring flex in my system. With out a regular flex....and right now if you go to German Ebay you can get a Geha school pen from E12-19.....unless you push the 'Buy Now Idiot' button :headsmack: :doh: :wallbash: :gaah: .  It is the best buy for regular flex.

 

So...mash your regular flex so the tines spread 3 X the width of a light down stroke. 3X is the max or you will spring your nib!!!!!!

Semi-flex takes half that pressure.

Maxi-semi-flex half of that, or 1/4th the pressure needed to mash a regular flex to 3X.

All three are in the 3X tine spread set.

Nails = 1X...no tine spread, semi-nails like a P-75/ modern 400/600 Pelikan = 2X.

 

Semi-flex is :notworthy1: :thumbup: is great enough as is...........have 27.

Being at the well, living in Germany have 16 maxi's....all but the Osmia's luck of the draw.

And I've learned to really like Regular Flex also.....a better nib for Shading inks, in it is not as wet as semi/maxi.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 26 July 2018 - 11:43.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#19 Nyanzilla

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 19:35

If it's writing well just leave it. It's not worth ruining a good nib just for esthetic reasons.


Edited by Nyanzilla, 26 July 2018 - 19:35.

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#20 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 08:45

It's a ruined nib all bent....it's lacking all the joy a semi-flex can give....that old fashioned fountain pen flair, with out doing anything. A very soft wet ride. I'm glad he sent it off to be straightened.

 

It's Semi-flex.....not semi-Flex...thinking it's superflex. Semi-flex is fun with out working. Superflex is lots of hard practice to get the fancy writing possible.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 






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