Should Stub Nibs Have A Tipping?

[markh]

I recently purchased a couple of 1.1mm steel stub nibs from an on-line store. On looking at them under a loupe, it appeared that there was no tipping (irridium, so called). An email confirmed this.

 

I looked at some older nibs that I had from a different store (all intentionally unnamed) - same thing.

 

Is this the norm?? I purchased to re-grind (mostly to oblique) and think that the lack of tipping makes for an inferior nib - but maybe I don't understand.

 

Or.. who sells stubs (.9, or 1.1) that are tipped??? Or maybe it's best if I start with broad nibs (generally tipped).

 

thnx,

 

[zaddick]

Steel stubs by Jowo don't tend to be tipped. Gold stubs should be.

[Chrissy]

Steel stubs by Jowo don't tend to be tipped. Gold stubs should be.

 

+1 for this. Lamy steel nibs that are 1.1mm and 1.9mm aren't tipped either.

[Mr.Rene]

If I am not wrong ...not tipped nibs are called ITALIC...Tipped nibs are called STUB...I mean Broad nibs in general...

[markh]

If I am not wrong ...not tipped nibs are called ITALIC...Tipped nibs are called STUB...I mean Broad nibs in general...

These are sold and marked as stub.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Just looked at my Lamy 1.5...with a 10 X loupe....it 'could' have been tipped if I look hard enough...but it's flat enough there could be another reason for the tad of different color, where bottom tipping could have been. In they were stub to start with, there would have been no reason to waste tipping on the top.

 

My Osmiroid bronze italic nibs are not tipped. But they were relatively cheap so one could buy new for the cost of a couple of beers.

 

All my other factory stubs are tipped, a '38 Parker Vac, '36 Canadian factory BB stub, and my '50's Sheaffer Australian pen, a BB maxi-semi-flex are tipped.

So are all my Vintage German..pre and post war to 70, when the flat stub semi-flex nibs were no longer made were tipped.

Some like Osmia were rather 'sparsam' with the tipping. I have one where there is just a small flat pad in the middle of an OBB, with a whisper or no tipping to the edge.

 

I would prefer tipping. With so many nails no matter gold or steel, that have no character, a good stubbing should leave tipping and give character. After you do want to write with it for the next 40 years.

The rolled steel nibs of an Esterbrook 1xxx was only good a year or so, the improved 2xxx, for two.

And that was rolled steel. Flat steel might wear faster.....but there is no real worry about that in the nib will not be used often enough, many hours a day, every day, like the old vintage Esterbrooks.

[Karmachanic]

The steel Bock and Pilot stubs I have are also without tipping.

[mana]

Steel CI/Italic nibs are not usually tipped as steel is wear resistant enough. Gold nibs? Tipped, they would wear out in no time without iridium or other hard material. Stubs... same thing applies. After all, a stub nib is just italic nib with more smooth demeanor (more rounded edges). Between them, lies the Cursive Italic.

- Italic > sharp geometry/edges
- Cursive Italic > slightly more rounded geometry/edges
- Stub > wubbly wubbly smooth and rounded edges

The nibs often used for calligraphy, and for example majuscule latin scripts (such as Uncial) are italic stainless steel nibs. They often come with a whet/sharpening stone for touching up the nibs. Due to the fact that the scripts those nibs are used for do not warrant flex stainless steel is very much a viable option as it is way cheaper than tipped gold nibs.

[markh]

I had purchased these nibs to regrind - either to change width, sharpen them from a "soft" stub to a crisper writer, or maybe to an oblique (my favorite shaped nib). I assumed that starting with a stub was less work than starting with a broad or medium nib.

 

It's true - it is less work. The nib starts closer to the final shape I want, so there is less material to remove. But when I'm done the result is an un-tipped pen.

 

So I need to re-think my plan, and instead start with tipped medium or broad nibs. More work, but I end up with a better nib in the end.

 

 

Interesting - live an learn......

 

.

 

[Karmachanic]

The steel CI nibs I have are all tipped as the have been ground from monoline nibs. A few ground by myself which are poorly done compared to those ground by those qualified.

[markh]

The steel CI nibs I have are all tipped as the have been ground from monoline nibs. A few ground by myself which are poorly done compared to those ground by those qualified.

 

I have several nibs ground by experts. They are excellent teaching material that I look at as I grind mine.

 

I'm at the point that I can get a nib I like to write with and works well. But under a loupe it looks much less polished and professional than the expert nibs.

 

The only way to get better is practice, practice, practice.....

 

 

.

[Karmachanic]

 

I have several nibs ground by experts. They are excellent teaching material that I look at as I grind mine.

 

I'm at the point that I can get a nib I like to write with and works well. But under a loupe it looks much less polished and professional than the expert nibs.

 

The only way to get better is practice, practice, practice.....

 

 

This mirrors my experience. I also have learned to whom I will turn to for future grinds.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Markh, for real good obliques, you should look at the '50-70 era German stubbed semi-flex nibs.

I've in a mix of semi&maxi, 16 obliques of that time,

Modern ...post '70, just don't do the trick.

 

That includes my just won, pre-'98 600 and a 1005, both in OBB. Not bad...but not up to Vintage.

 

W.Germany 200 OM (had hopes in that W.Germany nib is a tad more springy....but not quite.)

A Lamy OB Persona nail now CI, a Lamy 27 nail OM...sold. No line variation can be expected in a nail....IMO. It's just for left handers or left eye dominate right handers, so they can see the top of the nib.

And some other 200's nibs I trans-mailed to a passed pal in England, in some Germans refuse to mail outside of Germany.

Vintage oblique....

[jekostas]

If I am not wrong ...not tipped nibs are called ITALIC...Tipped nibs are called STUB...I mean Broad nibs in general...

 

Italic and Stub refer to the specific shaping of the nib, not whether it's tipped or not.

[minddance]

Preferably with tipping please. But I have stub nibs without tipping (Pilot stainless steel, Twsbi, Lamy) and they all write smooth. I imagine a well-finished tipped stub would write even better.

 

But I have read that Pilot gold and tipped stub nib (sutab, SU) isn't impressive, I haven't tried that one myself.

 

Regrinding a tipped nib into stub sounds like a good option to get a tipped stub

[Mech-for-i]

technically they should not be tipped, yes there are tipped stub but really they are more like BBB / XXB / BBBB etc grounded / grinded to a stub instead, and its not hard to see why ... you will need specialized tipping and / or a very large tipping to start with and then a lot of work to get them ground down to a perfectly level flat stub .. its reasonably and technically a better choice to made a simply un tipped stub and simply ground down the edge of the tip so it do not cut. In actual use the stub is sort of like using a ( oil painting ) knife .. you are using the flat surface area to spread ink to a certain width of coverage, tipping do not exactly needed here. Some form of springiness in the nib material in fact is more usable , and nib profile ( side ) is of more concern

[Randal6393]

For 40 years I have been writing Italic. My great performers are all stainless steel nibs. Oldest nib is a 40-year old Sheaffer No Nonsense Italic Fine. Writes as well now as the day I first touched it up. "Iridium" nibs are all noble metals of one kind or the other. Very few actually have any iridium in them. The few I have perform almost exactly like the stainless nibs I have. Don't see any difference in gold nibs or stainless steel nibs. The down-side of gold nibs is that it is much easier to bend the tines and ruin the integrity of the nib. Note to self: Send that Lamy 2000 to Chart-Pak!

 

I commend those contributors to this thread that are learning to grind their own italic nibs. One of the greatest tools to making a pen perform a decent ink dance. Of course, the occasional failure is why I stick to cheaper pens, especially the ones that take a standard # 6 nib. (Goulet is best, Nemosine is OK, Bock and Knox are pretty iffy. But, your experience may vary.)

 

@Karmachanic: Yes, practice does help. So does a good loupe with lots of lighting. My favorite is a 10X loupe with 6 LED's around the edge. Lets me see just what the nib looks like, gives me a fair chance of cutting the nib to the shape I want. Keep on truckin'.

 

Enjoy,

 

PS: Real benefit to an untipped nib is that you can touch up and regrind the nib if it isn't performing to specs. With a tipped nib, sooner or later, one runs out of iridium and gets to a softer steel.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Randal6393

[Ron Z]

 

 

Note to self: Send that Lamy 2000 to Chart-Pak!

 

Send new note to self. Charkpak is Pelikan. The Lamy distributor used to be Filofax, but they haven't been the distributor for two or three years. Don't ask me who to contact now. Lamy Bob is doing the work again, but it sounds like its a confused mess with the latest distributor.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Perhaps I forgot to mention, those German Vintage 50-70 semi-flex nibs were all tipped and stubs.

 

Outside the nails of Lamy, Tropen which had the American Bump Under.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[Honeybadgers]

If I am not wrong ...not tipped nibs are called ITALIC...Tipped nibs are called STUB...I mean Broad nibs in general...

 

The grind is what defines an italic vs a stub nib. not the tipping. Sharp edges = italic. REALLY sharp edges = cursive italic. Soft edges = stub.

 

I prefer a stub with tipping. Bare steel can scratch from the paper and occasionally can bite, resulting in a scratchy stub that needs a bit of smoothing. it's rare, but I have had it happen. I tend to not worry about cheap steel stubs, but if I'm buying an expensive stub, I want it tipped. And gold wears way too quickly on paper to get by without tipping.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Honeybadgers