Why Don't They Make Absolutely Amazing Nibs Any More?

[Tseg]

I spent $3K on new pens trying to find the perfect nib. Sixty year old pens made them all day long. Why no more?

 

[pajaro]

If you mean flexible nibs, there are other threads here in this forum on the subject. If there were enough demand, they would probably make them. Perhaps they don't perceive demand that exists, or perhaps there just isn't any or just not enough to justify the expenditures necessary.

[wags]

I would guess that folks stopped buying flex nibs. Generally, industry will provide folks with what they are willing to buy.

 

It appears to me that, now that folks are again showing an interest in flex nibs, the manufacturers are responding.

 

cheers, mike

[steve50]

I think Pilot nibs are quite excellent. There are many factors that go into making a nib feels amazing other than softness/flexibility. After experimenting with a few Chinese pens...I realise that the tipping is also very important (i.e., the grind, polish, shape, etc.). Some of them were just unusable even though they had no problem as such because they felt very weird to write with.

[jekostas]

60 years ago, fountain pens were commodities that served a huge market, with many different demographic targets and many companies making competing products.

 

Fountains pens today are at best, an esoteric product with limited demamd. Even among that group, people who actually want truly flexible nibs is a very small subset.

 

People can start all the threads they want about the joys of flexible nibs, but at the end of the day the demamd just doesn't exist.

[Ted F]

I think Tseg is on the right track. Not all nibs pre-1950 were flexible. I find that today's nibs on even high-end pens leave a lot to be desired and it's not unusual to get one of the new pens and have to have a nib meister smooth is out for you. Right now I'm using a 1920's Wahl Pen with a Signature nib and a 1930's Eversharp Doric Junior that write beautifully and it's not unusual for these old pens to write well. Of course, you have to be careful when buying one of these old ones because you don't know how the previous owner treated their nibs. For me personally, I don't have any strong desire for a flex nib. My penmanship is such that I don't get any advantage from a flex nib. However, I did recently buy an Aurora Optima Flex with a fine nib. It needed a little work and for me, it doesn't flex when writing but it is nice to write with.

[ac12]

#1, There is not enough demand for a manufacturer to spend the money to make flex nibs, and sell them at a reasonable price. One estimate of the selling price of a new flex nib is about $350. And they need to sell THOUSANDS of nibs.

 

#2, Warranty. So many people do NOT know how to write with a flex nib that the warranty claims would eat the profits. Just look at how brutal some of the people on YouTube flex the nibs. It is one thing to overflex and spring a $3 dip pen nib, but totally another to do that to a $350 fountain pen nib.

 

BTW, if you write with a "tripod grip," you need to change your grip to that of the old dip pen users.

Because you want the nib in line with the downstroke when you flex. If not, you will be over-stressing the trailing tine, and that tine will be the one to fail.

[jekostas]

If you're buying vintage, you're also commonly buying nibs that have been used before. Any "issues" that may have existed when the nib was brand new were likely fixed a long, long time ago.

 

I've also written with many vintage NOS nibs from various manufacturers that were pretty awful, with most common issues being uneven tipping and very poor smoothing.

 

Finally, you have to deal with issues with vintage nibs that you won't find on new pens like poor quality tipping material, stress to the tines or flat spots.

 

I know that nostalgia is a strong motivator in purchasing fountain pens but like everything else, there are always tradeoffs to consider when deciding between new and vintage.

Edited July 21, 2018 by jekostas

[Manalto]

You don't explain what an "amazing" nib is. Do you write one word and then stagger backward, wide-eyed, stunned by the utter perfection and butteriness of the nib?

 

Do you just mean "good"? Your demo shows flex, so it's understandable that others assume tha's what you're missing. There are lots of good new nibs out there; maybe you've had a run of bad luck.

[minddance]

I am not sure what OP meant by 'good nibs'. Everybody's definition of good can be dramatically different.

 

For example, some people thoroughly enjoy the raw unfinished writing sensation of Platinum 3776, enjoy the infinite grip it has on any paper, some hate it.

 

Some find Pelikans 'brainlessly' smooth and rounded, some love the glass-smoothness found in the broader nibs.

 

Others may be hopelessly addicted to Sailor's feedback, precision and control, while some use micromesh to smoothen and get rid of the feedback.

 

Some people want tooth in the nibs and use it to good effect for subtle line variatiins while others find tooth nibs 'scratchy'.

 

When one watches youtube reviews or reviews in general, everything is reported as 'smooth'. Some more honest reviews report as having 'slight feedback' when things arn't as 'slight' in reality.

 

And I've seen people saying Pilot, Platinum and Sailor write the same. To me, they are worlds apart. 3 different worlds.

 

So, what is a 'good' nib?

Edited July 21, 2018 by minddance

[Chrissy]

Being flexible is not necessarily everyone's definition of an "absolutely amazing nib."

 

I have plenty of absolutely amazing nibs that I love, that aren't flexible. Mine have to feel really smooth when I write.

[JonSzanto]

Another silly, poorly documented topic. Of course there are very fine nibs being made today, as well as a lot of dogs. As Mr. Byrne said, "Same as it ever was..." If it seems like there is a higher percentage of admirable nibs from decades and decades ago, maybe it just happens to be that those are the ones that survived.

 

(We pause here to note, as have others, the lack of proper definition of "absolutely amazing" in the OP)

 

In the last couple of months I have purchased brand new pens that I enjoy writing with, as well as two pens I have restored in the last couple weeks (1924~ Sheaffer and 1929 Parker Duofold) that are also a delight. There are nibs out there from many eras to make your heart sing.

[jar]

See above.

 

It would be nice to find a thread where the subject has actually be thought out before posting.

[Karmachanic]

I find my absolutely amazing titanium nibs absolutely amazing.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Ball points took all the fun of writing away.....so writing became something one did when one had too....only. having a neat old fashioned fountain pen script got in the way of click and go modern times. Ball points turned writing into pure work....so one didn't work too hard.

 

Like in the '60's when the US shoe companies decided they were not going to make a C shoe for the 10% of the people that wore them....to save money. The pen companies stopped catering to a small minority, who wanted some fancy to their scripts.............US had gone over to making stubbs as cheaper than semi-flex or more flexible nibs. Stubbing a regular run nail, was much cheaper than having special steel or gold, and a different stamping die, for other nib geometry needed by nibs with a touch or more of flex.

Then there was the feed problem $$$. Pens even semi-flex needed a faster feed than the cheap pressed plastic feed.They had gone away from hand sawn ebonite nibs....as too costly. And a nib with a touch or more of flex needs a faster feed.

Sheaffer still had a few semi-flex nibs in the early '50's.

The Germans stopped making semi-flex nibs by @ 1970.....same reason.

[Chrissy]

See above.

 

It would be nice to find a thread where the subject has actually be thought out before posting.

 

[Chrissy]

I sometimes wonder if flexible nibs were a deliberate invention, or if they just happened as a consequence of pen makers making very thin gold nibs that happened to be flexible because of the thinness of the gold.

 

I don't own a nib that writes anything like the one in the original post. Even if I had owned one, I would have got rid of it by now.

[Ron Z]

I think that the OPs comment is a rather broad generalization, and inaccurate. Many of the nibs back in "the day," were just as awful as one can imagine, and perhaps worse than the ones today. I've worked on them.

 

We have noted that many pens that are in pristine condition write, as one client so accurately put it, "Like a chicken foot." The pen wrote badly so it was put away and never used. Many of the 60 year old pens were adjusted, or used and wore to way that the owner used them. Some wrote great, many are "meh!" Its rare to get a pen that couldn't use at least some smoothing when restored, even ones in near mint condition. It just depends on the skill of the person who originally set the nib.

[TheDutchGuy]

I wasn't around during the glory days. So I've no idea how many nibs were amazing and how many were duds. Surviving vintage pens have a higher chance to write well, for reasons explained in posts above.

 

I am around now. I've bought some new pens with nibs that, to me, offered sheer perfection straight out of the box: Sailor (no surprises there) but also pens from a company that a lot of people associate with really bad nibs (Kaweco). And I was initially very disappointed with a pen that many, many FPN members regard as a benchmark pen (Pilot Custom 823 F).

 

The only guarantee seems to be that when it comes to quality control, there are no guarantees. But certainly there are really good nibs being made today.

[Tseg]

Apologies for the click-bait.