Osmia 78 Nib

[ScottieDarin]

Hi All,

A friend of mine has an Osmia 78 but with the wrong nib. The entire pen is minit+ condition and pretty. He said that if I could manage to get the correct nib for this pen, he's willing to part with it. I've done some research, and I've got contradicting answers.

A couple nice people on Facebook pen group told me that an Osmia Supra nib (size 6 but without the number 6, two-tone), the same on an Osmia 884 is the correct fit. However, I've also asked another well-known expert on this matter, he said an Osmia 78 should be fitted with an Osmia No.8 nib.

 

Can anyone shed some light on the matter? I've had close to 10 Osmia pens by now, and they are one of my favourite two German brands (Soennecken & Osmia). Another Osmia 76 is on its way to me too. The company makes some sexy lookin' and awesome writin' pens back then. Shame it didn't survive the Ballpen Tsunami.

 

Any inputs or even offers to sell are very welcome.

 

Best regards,

Scott. L from Taiwan

[Bo Bo Olson]

The 78 is a large pen, my two 76's are medium large. The one I have to hand, has a pretty big steel Supra nib, no numbers.

Don't know much, but an Osmia nib with a small diamond, mostly with the size number in it (have I think a 2, do have a couple 3's and perhaps a 4...never categorized that. ...I could also have a small diamond with no number in it, but think it's a #2. )....is a semi-flex. (I was just glad to have the pens....and didn't nit pick....................didn't have the money to even think of getting an array of different size Osmia nibs.)

Those with either no diamond or a very large diamond, but with Supra on it are maxi-semi-flex.

 

Thomas....Kaweco on the com would know. He is a scholar of German pens made in or near Heidelberg, back when Heidelberg was the pen capital of the world. He has a small pen museum in Heidelberg. In the old Fire Station, directly across from the Ancient Hanschueheim (glove home...finger gloves were only for bishops and the high nobles back then) castle.

If the city had allowed him to put up a second floor of industrial gitter, it would be a much bigger one. Only 1/3 of his stuff is in it.

 

I drive by the old Osmia factory often.

 

I didn't load the pictures of the collection of pens in Imgur, in I was showing the mechanical items on another thread, after I left Ransombucket. I have other pictures of the pens.....but didn't get any resonance here when I showed the whole smear.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[markiv]

Here is one 78 with a large steel nib

 

Here is a 448

 

Good luck

[Bo Bo Olson]

Good links, the 448 was once a grail pen of mine, so have added a 78 to that ever growing list.

 

From the second link.....(448) """This is a top model of Osmia Faber Castell in the 50's. Its price was 35 DM. For comparison - the price of Pelikan 500 /tortoise with rolled gold cap/ was 38 DM, Montblanc's: 142 - 38.50 DM, 256 - 32.50 DM, 254 - 28.50 DM..."""

Back when the Dollar was Almighty....Snorkel cost $12 at DM4.20 to a dollar, DM 50.

 

I just asked my wife what her father was making in the '50's.....DM100-150 a month!

When I got to Germany in the mid-60's an ill paid draft time private was as well off as a German worker, and had free room and board.

 

Back before the '80's, German workers were always underpaid, so Germany could compete. That is why they were given a month's Christmas bonus, so they could have Christmas(You won't believe what they take out in taxes). They were given half a month bonus Vacation money for the Summer or there would have been no vacation to the Black Forest, North or Baltic Seas....places where they could breath real air for two weeks...The '50's was long ago ...when if you saw 10-15 cars on the autobahn it was rush hour.

 

That was well before the cheap dollar of a decade ago, had Germans flying to NY for a weekend.

 

 

 

In the '60s and even longer, Being totally ignorant of the cost of making pens, and an Arrogant Ami Army Brat, looked down my nose at those high costing piston pens.....thinking if they were any good, Americans would make such.

:yikes:One of those gold plated trim only ugly MB cigar looking pens, cost more than a wide cap banded rolled gold Snorkel............. (Couldn't even afford the normal $12 Snorkel with the skinny band. 'Nobody knew' how great that $13-14 Pelikan 400 was either...and I thought it ugly, wasn't as pretty as a P-51 or Snorkel. ( only got one of each of them US pens, two-three baskeball players hands full of those piston pens.)

 

The ignorant arrogance of youth, can last decades.

I had major trouble getting up 50 cents every Friday to go beer drinking with the boys....at 15 if you maintained you could pass for the legal 16. Two pints and a half a pint = 50 cents US....and in we still had money.....silver money, they would take silver Half Dollars, Quarters and Dimes....no nickles. The silver money went into the gasthous owners cigar box. )

[markiv]

Bo, your accoutrements to the main thread are always a welcome read.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Thank you, Markiv.

 

We do live in a golden age of collecting pens. Before the net....I don't think there was much of a market for old used pens......one nut per big city. NY may have had three.

 

The deals I got a decade ago...where high when hearing what the prices were at the start of WWW.

Today's prices often make me flinch.

Sad to think someone some day will think them a bargain.

[ScottieDarin]

Thanks for all the kind replies. I will keep on my search, thank you.

Bo Bo Olson your recollection is always a wonder, and the pictures of Thomas's collection and the information of his personal museum is most valuable.

 

Thank you so much for your input, everyone.

[ScottieDarin]

Here is one 78 with a large steel nib

 

Here is a 448

 

Good luck

Thank you, Markivo. Yes, I've seen the one on Penboard.de, but I'm kind of hoping to find a gold nib for this German monster.....

[Bo Bo Olson]

1932 Osmia was broke again....they didn't have an office supply business to support their fountain pen division, like Soennecken, MB, Pelikan and later Geha. Degussa took the nib factory for debt. Degussa makes and deals in gold and silver...still. Degussa continued to make the Osmia nibs....in the Osmia factory. In the workers refused to move the 70-100 KM to Pfortzheim.

Degussa made nibs like Osmia for others. Eventually though using their own mark, were well known for quality nibs.

 

When I was 'noobie' I believed the myth that only in house nibs were any good.............never even heard of Bock, much less Degussa. So there I sat, with two of those so inferior 'no name' nibs in my hand. Almost tossing them...but they didn't take up much space......really, my hand had been over the trash can.

Ignorance....and believing fountain pen myths can lead to renting the 19 1/2 (54 in cm) sized boot and it's wearer for a long slow trip around the block.

 

It was the Osmium tipping compound that a German Professor invented in @1922-3 or so, that the Boehler brothers bought up. It was such a wonder.

In Osmia was always operating on the edge, they had to develop a fantastic steel nib, and did.

 

I 'made the mistake' of being a gold snob with Osmia back then.....missing at the start many a bargain of a steel Osmia pen...Well when one has a low level boarder for how much one wants to spend. E10-20 back when Osmia was 20% more expensive than Pelikan was a lot of money.

So eventually I bit the bullet and bought steel nibbed Osmai....like my fine BCHR 76.

 

I do push Osmia and Geha steel nibs....often, so those newer can find out there is 'steel' and there is good to great steel nibs. If I had remained ignorant of Osmia's steel nibs....I'd only have 3 gold ones instead fo the 8 I have.

 

For pure writing the Osmia Steel nib ='s the great gold nib.

 

I can understand wanting gold for the price Penboard wants. But the steel nib is a great writer.

I'm very happy with all my Osmia or O-F-C great steel nibs. Happy with my gold ones too.

 

As I said, small diamond....often with a number in it is semi-flex, Large diamond with Supra on the nib is a maxi-semi-flex.

 

My Osmia 76 don't have that spiderweb/lizard ink window; my Boehler does. How ever my '38 Boehler 76 has gold washed Italian nibs, in when they split, Hitler stole all the gold .... but allowed some Axis Italian gold to be imported. Boehler needed in the first years to at least look/bling better than his brothers' pens.

By the end of '38 all German companies had had to invent a good steel nib, Pelikan going to CN eventually. Osmia already had such.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[OMASsimo]

The Osmia 78 and the Faber-Castell/Osmia 884 are from two different galaxies. The 78 is from the mid 1930s and a genuine Osmia Supra while the 884 is from around 1960 and basically a FC. In other words, you can't judge one by the other. Furthermore, it seems that the numbering system of Osmia was rather erratic. Yes, the 74, 76, 78 numbered pens with increasing size but it didn't necessarily mean that the nib sizes would be #4, #6, #8. At least I couldn't find any proof of it anywhere. I only have a 74 in my own collection which has a #3 nib. Of course it's not certain that this is the original nib, there's simply too little information. But I'd guess that the nib sizes are more likely to be #3, #4, and maybe #5, respectively. The largest Osmia nib in my collection is a #6 and I've never seen a #8 anywhere.

 

Anyway, enjoy the pen, Osmias were among the best ever!

[ScottieDarin]

The Osmia 78 and the Faber-Castell/Osmia 884 are from two different galaxies. The 78 is from the mid 1930s and a genuine Osmia Supra while the 884 is from around 1960 and basically a FC. In other words, you can't judge one by the other. Furthermore, it seems that the numbering system of Osmia was rather erratic. Yes, the 74, 76, 78 numbered pens with increasing size but it didn't necessarily mean that the nib sizes would be #4, #6, #8. At least I couldn't find any proof of it anywhere. I only have a 74 in my own collection which has a #3 nib. Of course it's not certain that this is the original nib, there's simply too little information. But I'd guess that the nib sizes are more likely to be #3, #4, and maybe #5, respectively. The largest Osmia nib in my collection is a #6 and I've never seen a #8 anywhere.

 

Anyway, enjoy the pen, Osmias were among the best ever!

Thank you, OMASsimo. I have not seen a No. 8 Osmia nib anywhere too.

But you do have a point with the 78 and 884 being from two different galaxies, haha.

Guess I'll just keep looking.....

 

Best regards,

Scott from Taiwan

[Bo Bo Olson]

I'd guessed the 884 if it says Osmia is more as '50's in by @ 1960 I think Osmia was totally erased except for the Osmia diamond on a Faber-Castell marked nib..............or so I guess.

 

I'm sure I have an 884...nope it's a medium small 883 (Back then Medium-Small was Very IN...Pelikan 140, Kaweco Dia and the Geha Flagship 760 & a number of Osmia pens, the 63 for example. ) It's an 883 Gold nibbed Supra F, Osmia on one side, Faber-Castel on the other so from 1950 or 1951 when ever the buy out was finished. The next year Osmai and Faber-Castell was on the same side....then the idiots at Faber-Castel, errased Osmia from the first class pen they bought in theirs was only second class. They bought a court Earldom/Graf, in the 1890's and it went to their head...IMO. Even got away from the Osmia Diamond on the Finial.

Osmia had some 5-6 Finials, and at least 5 clips, with only one with Osmia on it.

Perhaps only the Flagships had the diamond Final and Osmia on the clip. I am sure I have one with Osmia on the clip and one of the Finals with out the diamond. I do have a couple with both.

...could be one didn't want to show the boss up by having a better pen or a pen of the same class level, so hid that, for job security. Just an off the wall theory..........in the Germans back then were very class conscious.

 

I just had it re-corked by Francis...but not inked since....in I had three other Osmia's recorked by him a month or two ago....and have way too many pens inked. 22.

Cork is the best gasket if properly boiled in oil and beeswax...slathered then with silicon grease. Should be good or 70 years of constant use***............Just need that new pill that doubles life span.....which means working till one is 120.

***it's letting the cork dry out for a generation or two in the dark of a drawer than causes problems with the cork.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[OMASsimo]

The 882/883/884 series was a genuine in house development by Faber-Castell, they even held a paptent for the method to structure the ink window for better grip. These were meant as top of the line pens - and they are indeed. The imprint of Osmia and the Osmia diamond was used till the early 60s and then phased out. Big mistake indeed.

 

I have an 883 and an 884 in my collection which are considerably different in design, the 883 obviously being the younger one. The 884 has the old style "Heidelberg" Osmia clip (with name imprint), the old Osmia name logo on the barrel besides the "Faber-Castell", an "Osmia Supra" nib imprint, and of course the diamond finial. By contrast, the 883 has a modern clip without imprint, "Faber-Castell" imprint on the cap, a new style "Osmia" imprint in neutral capital letters on the barrel, A "Faber-Castell" imprint on the nib, which also carries the Osmia diamond logo, and the Osmia diamond finial. By the way, the 883 still has it's original price tag of 17.50 DM. That's in the same ballpark as a Pelikan 400NN or a Kaweco Dia of the same period but way cheaper than a Montblanc Meisterstuck 144.

 

Edit: I just noticed that my 883 lacks the rippled ink window!

Edited July 24, 2018 by OMASsimo

[Bo Bo Olson]

Omassimo, I'd give the nod to knowing more about the Osmia pens, than I do. I have learned much from him...such as O-F-C lasted longer than I'd thought. It taking longer to erase Osmia from the pens. And other things on other pen brands.

....But he seems to have a younger 883 than I.

 

My 883, has Osmia on one side, Faber-Castell on the other, Osmia diamond finial,Osmia clip, Nib marked Osmia/Supra, ....and a strange black rings/clear rings ink window (the first and only one I've seen like that on any piston filler I have Don't know how I missed that.). Don't know if the ink window was originally amber or if it aged that way.

 

I'd put mine real early, with the Osmia on one side of the barrel and the Faber-Castel on the other side.

In Faber-Castel had been buying in, for quite a while (starting in '36 and coming on strong after the War)....Osmia could well have had impute from Faber Castell, as a first year model. I do know after Faber Castell took over model numbers were adjusted, like my 540 instead of a 54...

 

Osmia it's self used 5-6 different finals, and the same with clips.

 

I'm now puzzled by my Medium small Osmia 773 in gold on the cap, no other marking....but it has in KM in gold on the barrel. (small un numbered Osmia...small diamond gold nib)Much different clip and a small rounded early-'mid '50's WOG type of finial. How ever I'd seen Original Reforms with such from the very early '50's. Kaweco's Gentleman '58 has finial similar. MB 254 also, Andreas Lambrou's book shows a MB from @ 1948 (with out a number of which one it was) that has a similar final.

One of the reason's that puzzled me was with a 3x model number...I thought the 3x numbering came in with Faber-Castel.

 

Sigh....Going to have to load up the camera.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[OMASsimo]

Thank you Bo Bo, but I'm only trying to share what I've leaned myself from whatever sources and complement it with my own observations from my collection. Osmia just happens to be one of the four brands I focus on in my collection, besides Kaweco, Pelikan, and, who'd have thunk that, OMAS.

 

I think what we see here is simply that many manufacturers in the old days did the opposite of modern companies. They kept a model name of a product despite revolutionizing its design and improving its function. Modern companies sometimes seem to be more inventive with a new model name than with the actual product. I've seen this with many brands between the 1920s and 1960s that a model name was kept over a long period of time while the actual design changed continuously.

 

I think you're right that FC started to straighten the numbering scheme of Osmia after the war. My observation is that FC used three digit numbers for pens with gold nibs (doubling the first number) and two digit numbers for the same models with steel nibs. The old Osmia numbering before the war was rather chaotic in my opinion. However, for many models, the last digit seems to correlate with the nib size somehow. And this brings us back to the OP's original question again.

 

I'm not familiar with the 773 model. But if the "KM" is placed at the end of the barrel, close to the blind cap and the piston knob, it most likely refers to the kind of nib. Most Osmias state there by an imprint what nib belonged to that pen originally. "KM" refers to a "Kugel" nib of width "M". "Kugel" means sphere and describes the shape of the tip. The spherical tip made the pen easy to use if you didn't have good control over holding your pen in the proper direction. It's closer to most standard modern nibs than any other typical shape of vintage nibs.

[Bo Bo Olson]

My observation is that FC used three digit numbers for pens with gold nibs (doubling the first number) and two digit numbers for the same models with steel nibs."""

 

My 540 has a steel nib; Supra.

 

Andreas Lambrou's book is a main source of mine....(not going to drag down the big three language pen book right now. It's confusing enough as is. ) ....and there were many model changes in the '30s'...So I can understand chaotic.

 

Right after Parker, with Supras...the top of the line pen, coming ins Baby, Minor, Normal and Extra. ...those were button fillers...as I read it...

.then 175, 250 and 300 ...no rhyme or reason.

The the Progress, and the Progress a Parker Vacumatic type. 92,93,94,& 96..........then the more expensive Supra Progress. 192, 193, 194, & 196.

They also had a Brilliant cheaper model....126, 127, 128, & 232.

BCHR Super Luxus, 42, 44, &46.

The Supra in 74, 76 & 78

 

Then finally three small Osmia's 62, 64 & 66.

 

O-F-C I'll leave out....again, I'd have to read deeper.

 

Really I'm not going to get one of each..........not even one of each model.....not unless someone can give me six right numbers.

 

Hell, I'd have to take more time and re-read just to make sure I even know just all the Piston pens..

 

I'm assuming the button filler were to get around Pelikan's piston patent. Or someone elses. Swan had many convoluted patents that actually held less ink than other major companies button fillers.

Perhaps Parker let them have their button filler with the technology transfer that happened in 1929.

 

I'm guessing sooner or later it became cheaper to do buy Pelikan's cork gasket piston than buy all those different sized rubber sacs..... ...One did have to keep up with the Jones in the pen manufacturing world.

The world copied the Sheaffer New Balance, then the P-51.

 

 

But remember MB not only had 3 levels with all sorts of numbers...that might have a bit to do with nib size....but made 20 and more of their own sub brands.

 

Advances in technology, trying to cover too many markets, or not...it was a great time of novelty.

Soennecken and MB had to be dragged screaming and kicking from sac pens into the Modern Times of the '30's.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[OMASsimo]

Yes, Lambrou's book is always first choice to get good info. But keep in mind that it's not complete and also contains errors. Please don't get me wrong, I'm far from criticizing him, he did a terrific job. There were so incredibly many manufacturers in the early days and so many undocumented model changes that it seems impossible to get bullet proof information about most of the pens.

 

Model names like Kaweco Dia were used over a period of 30 years and labeled grossly different pens. Osmia (and FC) wasn't any different in that respect. Osmia's numbering system can really drive you nuts. There is no discernible pattern except that increasing numbers within a series like 74, 76 & 78 label pens of increasing size. FC introduced a little more system ind the 50s by the mentioned 2-digit/3-digit pattern for steel and gold nibs, respectively.

 

I've never seen or heard of a 540 Osmia before and I'd love to see it. My guess is that it's from before the 50s and still has one of those chaotic model numbers. Actually, I haven't seen any Supra steel nibs in the FC era from the 50s on. But also be aware that these pens were treasured enough that pens were fixed with whatever spare parts one could get hold of. This is a huge problem when judging pens from the 30s and 40s. You simply can't be sure if the nib or clip are really original or maybe replacements. On the other hand, this makes those pens very interesting and even slightly mysterious.

[Bo Bo Olson]

540....and someone else's 62 that the sold that were the same black, gray and pearl. I use that picture to show the Osmia diamond on the finial, mostly. My 62 or is it a 63, is black and gold.

 

The 540 is the same size as my Boehler 54 Gold.....in Boehler originally kept the same model numbers that were used in Osmia.

Boehler 54 Gold.........full tortoise.

This has one of the 5-6 finial's that Osmia used (I have another with a slightly different 'similar' finial), along with a generic clip (have a couple different generic clips), that Osmia also used.

So along with the chaotic numbering system.....one had chaos on the finial and clip front also.

 

About the pictures....I take very few to none, in when I buy the pen, I paid for the picture too. Outside of Delphin, I ask for permission like from Penboard or Pentimes...Sorry about that Delphin. I was a bit noobie way, way back then and didn't ask him on Ebay , and haven't used his picture much.

 

There is also a gold ring around the diamond that I saw on someones 76/78's photo. When looking real fast....but mine was white.

 

More than likely '51-50 at the youngest, perhaps late 40's.

 

62

 

540....my 540 don't have a fancy ink window.... :crybaby:Has a real nice steel Supra M nib.

 

The 540 started me in collecting fountain pens.

It has sat in my wife's aunt's drawer for the fifteen years since her husband died. It sat in the back of our drawer for 15 years also. A decade ago, going to the our first flea market to sell, we gathered up the good and the junk, including some inherited junky old fountain pens.

 

Wife asked me, "How much?"

'Nobody' used those obsolete things anymore...so I said 1 E for the pens....including a marbled gray Esterbrook (didn't even know what DJ was until soon after), that I had at least heard of.....having used the ugly monotone metal capped ones in the early '60's and some others." 5E for the pretty one. " (That would have made Thomas/Kaweco so happy )

 

The Wife Frowned!!! Tasking me with finding out how much they were worth. 20:00 I started searching. 02:00 I had a fountain pen collection. The E5 Osmia, was worth $250 in the states....(pre- Depression)....my P-75(paid $22 is silver) locked up in my wife's jewelry prison was worth $225, the P-75 MP/BP $150. Paid a huge $18 in silver money. (Folks should have bought that P-75 back in the Depression, then for $75 often enough.

 

I had of course no idea about semi-flex, much less a Supra maxi-semi-flex. All I thought it was was a 'Wet Writer' that all 'noobies' chased so hard. Semi-flex was not much mentioned a decade ago.....and folks in the States, then chased few German pens and fewer Vintage ones.

 

With in six months the gasket died. In there was little to no info a decade ago about Osmia on the com.....the first semi-flex that I knew was semi-flex I swapped a Robert E. Lee pocket knife for along with four mox-nix fountain pens was the Pelikan 140. Knowing then having read about the fabled semi-flex, As soon as I pressed the 140's nib to my thumb, knew what all the fuss was about.

Eventually I got Francis to re-cork some of my pens, and most of my Osmia's, that needed it....a couple didn't. So the 540 is in the pen cup again.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson