Brand New M200 Pen/nib Issues, And Needing Help/guidance

[minddance]

+1

 

IMO, the probability of getting a dud from MB is quite low.

Pardon me for mentioning Mont Blanc:I have never owned or come across any of them yet. What I gathered was from reading It is good to know that the probability of getting a bad mont blanc is low, after paying what some people might consider a premium for these pens.

 

As for OP's problem, it is always good to buy from vendors with good customer support and refund/exchange policies

 

I am quite sure Pelikan has a (is it 5-week?) nib return policy. It shows that Pelikan supports its customers. I don't know how this applies across different countries.

[1nkulus]

Pardon me for mentioning Mont Blanc:I have never owned or come across any of them yet. What I gathered was from reading It is good to know that the probability of getting a bad mont blanc is low, after paying what some people might consider a premium for these pens.

 

As for OP's problem, it is always good to buy from vendors with good customer support and refund/exchange policies

 

I am quite sure Pelikan has a (is it 5-week?) nib return policy. It shows that Pelikan supports its customers. I don't know how this applies across different countries.

 

I agree that the MB pricing is optimistic even though I own a few, but QC is quite good speaking from personal/friends experience.

 

I only tend to deal with vendors willing to test prior to dispatch.

 

Most brands have a nib change period of at least a month.

[Bo Bo Olson]

"""And then there is Lamy, I wonder if they have a quality control department at all."""

Yes, Lamy does.

When doing a newspaper won factory tour some five years ago....the gold pen section was all on breakfast other than two women in the far corner grinding at Lamy 2000 BP/RB pens. So the tour didn't get to magpie any gold. The equipment up there looked a bit old. Perhaps 40 m by 25m factory section.

The ball point cartridge tools were simple and old, oil bath pre-computer tooling. High tec from 40 years ago...still doing fine.

 

Last...we visited the warehouse....in they make 600,000 of all kinds of pens a year, surprised me as it having only floor and one bay high, the fast way Just in Time delivery....was fast and efficient; that is not a surprise....all good warehouses are so. I'd expected two bays perhaps three. But they are efficient, needing only one.

Where the 4 foot high shrink wrapped pallets are eventually broken down I don't know. I did not see the local mailing room....

but I do doubt that any one makes local mailing securer than Gulot(sp)'s bomb proof shipping.

IMO all pen companies are more interested in pretty display boxes, than than making them ugly bomb proof. The way mail gets tossed, kicked and robot banged around, tines can easily be jarred out of alignment.

Way back when mail was much better handled (even then many complaints), a US University mailed a package with an analog gauge to measure the force a package withstood. The gauge was broken. And today's, high stress mail centers are not as gentle as back in the pure human days.

 

Downstairs, the factory was 250 or more yards long, with the ink factory in one corner...... @ 80 yards wide. Seemed machinery at least for half the factory was doubled, so we didn't go to the opposite side of the factory. Very few workers.

They only had one, we saw the 4mx10m, steel nib making machine, with all the work being done hidden. The single worker only changed thin rubber diamond coated nib slicer disks. (there were perhaps other jobs he had to do, occasionally, I'm sure.)

The head engineer showed us a strip of steel shown with the some 20 stages of nib stamping (or each of the micro-stages of the stamping....and the surprise was that the nibs had to be heated to bring the big V of the nib into the narrow I of the slit.

 

Quality control of steel nibs.

There was a big 4-5 foot disk of moving paper roll with some 8 or so Safari nibs moving back and forth on the tiny squared gauged paper...that were ink fed. The paper was kept in case there was a major error so the fault could be traced back to the proper machinery. The nibs were being tested by sound!!!! About 8 nib and sections every 8 or so seconds.

 

A little old lady tweaked the the nibs that failed the test perhaps one or two in 16 from what I saw.....in she had to slow down to talk to the 'tourists', she went from tweaking on an automatically fed to her work station 4-5 nib and sections, she louped, tweaked and scribbled, to some 16 or so waiting in line by the time the tour stopped interfering with her work day.

I'm sure upstairs in the gold nibs, they have a little old Lady doing the same, with out the high tec sound drum.

Didn't see the nib width being checked.......but some where a man or a machine has to have put it to a size gauge. Perhaps the paper roll was later analyzed to see if the robot gauging the size was accurate enough or not.

 

All companies have their very own nib with standards (the numbered nibs will also have tolerance/slop, 1.0 won't be...it will be 1.1-0.9 about the slop allowed with in that companie's Letter sized nibs. )...........and with in Europe MB, Lamy and Pelikan are wider than they use to be.

 

With in that as I've often shown Ron Zorn's tolerance scale of his visit to Sheaffer's factory just as it was closing. A skinny M can exactly = a fat F.....and being a hair into tolerance couldn't be told from that. A fat M=a skinny B.

 

If you don't like the width of a Lamy nib, if steel is cheap to replace.....but complain to Lamy about your getting an M instead of what you think should be a F. I can see that if you got an M, and wanted an EF.

 

Of course if you grew 'up' with Japanese miss marked nibs, all western nibs but Aurora will be fat. Aurora is just about Sailor fat. Sailor is the fat Japanese nib.

 

If you complain, perhaps Lamy will send you a skinner nib.....or at least wake them up to the problem of their tolerance being too fat for your eyes.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[1nkulus]

@ Bo Bo Olsen

 

Thank you for the QC insight.

 

A nib tweak is the only option rather than playing nib exchange.

Every brand has their own set of tolerances.

 

It is harder to factor in nib tweak costs with VFM brands, so you either put up or shift brands.

$40 tweak for a $80 pen. OTOH, you would have great pen for $120 (budget permitting).

 

If you are after true EF and F, Japanese is your only option and it is pointless criticizing European manufacturers. Vintage is worth considering.

I always factor in nib tweak costs, esp. for above sizes, when buying non Japanese brands prior to making a decision.

[Driften]

I am quite sure Pelikan has a (is it 5-week?) nib return policy. It shows that Pelikan supports its customers. I don't know how this applies across different countries.

 

 

Yes Pelikan does have a nib exchange period, but the US distributor will only do that or any warranty work on pens bought from US dealers. The OP expected them to support a pen bought from Europe instead of going back through the dealer he bought it from or Pelikan Germany.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Lamy as far as I know is the only factory left that does free repairs even if the pen is no longer under warrantee. They are not fast...but for free you can wait a few days.

 

Well there is no breather hole in Lamy nibs....but stick your thumbnail at the start of the slit and press the up nib under the down nib for a two second count....check with loup or a scribble, do it again.

With or with no loupe....do it three times....for two seconds each...should align the tines.

 

There are cheap buy again and again Chinese loupes that are marked 40X, they are only 10X.

Basic pen tool, like a rubber baby bulb syringe (two for Pelikans...one has the spout cut off so it fits the nib section for faster cleaning. The other cleans all CC pens.

One does need a needle syringe ....dulled of course to refill those expensive cartridges or a quick clean of one's converter.

 

Holding the fountain pen behind the big index knuckle like it should be held.....solves and prevents nib problems also.

[djmaher]

First things first.....

 

I performed the nib adjustment, with seemingly no problem. On the second gentle press of the tine that was too high, I actually heard/felt an audible click/snap/pop. A bit surprising, but I immediately put the pen under the loupe, and saw that the tine was now in alignment. The sound caught me off guard, but, at least in my case, sort of verified that the nib at least moved.

 

Writing with the pen verified that the tine did indeed move, and was in better alignment. My first alignment went well! And, now I know.

 

As to the other issues, as to who is "responsible" for repairs, or whether or not this is a maintenance issue, the jury is still out. And, of course, there's lots of ways to argue the point.

 

As the camera industry found out the hard way, continually fighting "gray market" imports of equipment, they are now compelled by law to fix equipment, during the warranty period, even if the item was purchased out of the country by an end consumer.(Ive worked in the photo industry virtually my whole professional career) Most don't even require a valid proof of purchase, figuring, correctly, that cementing the customer relationship is much better than jerking their customers around. The products literally come off of the same assembly line (gray vs.USA models) The occasional repairs they do are easily absorbed into the cost of their business. And, I might add, the profit margin in the photographic industry is preposterously low. Alot of companies now are coming around to that idea, that it's just pointless to be so shortsighted as to alienate their buying public. People can pretty much walk their money anywhere in the world now. Customer service does still matter to some. And, customer's memory is long, when they get screwed.

 

Pens are, perhaps, more hand made in nature than cameras are. Increasing the likelihood of some tweaking once they get into the hands of the end consumer. Maybe that's even understood in the FP community. Yet, as far as I know, not a single manufacturer indicates that the end user might have to do some tweaking once they get a pen in their hands. Correct me if I'm wrong. It's a completely reasonable expectation to be able to use your pen, right out of the box, without having to mess around too much to get it to write reasonably.

 

Are my expectations too high, as one "OP" (lol) mentioned here? Maybe. Why shouldn't they be? Why shouldn't manufacturers and their representatives be held to a higher standard? Working in the service/retail industry most of my life, I've heard all of the excuses why standards shouldn't be so high. What's even more weird is how many people are OK with letting that happen.

 

How many things can you buy that cost between $125 and $150 that you have to mess with before you get it to work right? Pick anything. What retailer would be nervy enough to even say that to you before you took the item home? Probably not too many. Talk about icing a sale....That amount of money is not exactly a small amount for me, anyway. Nor for most.

 

Anyway, pen seemingly working. Thanks to all who helped and encouraged me to learn more about the pens that I use. Rant about lousy customer service filled with lame excuses ranted, but never finished.

 

Expect more? Expect better? Always. Why not?

Edited August 1, 2018 by djmaher

[BillH]

...snip

 

Pens are, perhaps, more hand made in nature than cameras are. Increasing the likelihood of some tweaking once they get into the hands of the end consumer. Maybe that's even understood in the FP community. Yet, as far as I know, not a single manufacturer indicates that the end user might have to do some tweaking once they get a pen in their hands. Correct me if I'm wrong. It's a completely reasonable expectation to be able to use your pen, right out of the box, without having to mess around too much to get it to write reasonably.

 

Are my expectations too high, as one "OP" (lol) mentioned here? Maybe. Why shouldn't they be? Why shouldn't manufacturers and their representatives be held to a higher standard? Working in the service/retail industry most of my life, I've heard all of the excuses why standards shouldn't be so high. What's even more weird is how many people are OK with letting that happen.

 

How many things can you buy that cost between $125 and $150 that you have to mess with before you get it to work right? Pick anything. What retailer would be nervy enough to even say that to you before you took the item home? Probably not too many. Talk about icing a sale....That amount of money is not exactly a small amount for me, anyway. Nor for most.

 

...snip

 

 

Sticking with your example of cameras, once digital cameras came along, I can't think of a single one I've purchased that didn't need configuring out of the box. And the Sony I just ordered will most likely need some serious setting up, as well as practice before "it takes good pictures". I expect it. And it is orders of magnitude more than $125

 

I expect the same with fountain pens too. Every ink is different, every nib is different, every paper, and every penman holds their pen differently. Your pictures give a clue as to just how delicately and precisely nibs want to be in order to write to their full potential. Maybe I'm in the minority, but a good fountain pen that writes "just the way I like it" takes a little fiddling often times, but I expect it and it doesn't make me angry. In fact, sometimes that's part of the fun. I'm guessing you already know this though. But I've never understood why some folks get so worked up about this... I know, I'm probably different.

 

Congratulations on your first nib tweak! I hope your pen gives you years of joy.

[Bo Bo Olson]

""""Correct me if I'm wrong. It's a completely reasonable expectation to be able to use your pen, right out of the box, without having to mess around too much to get it to write reasonably."""

 

Any of the 4-5 new pens I've ever bought worked right out the box........mostly I buy vintage, semi-vintage................cheaper and more the nib types I like. Who knows what gramps grad kids did to the pen with ball point pressure before selling it? What then is common, 1-5? 1-8? Every once in a while I have to tweak an old nib. ....could be mailing the things to me in a unpadded or padded envelope instead of a bomb proof box.

 

I blame much on boxes made for pen display in a store, instead of being bomb proof transport cases. Post services are not gentle.

 

Holding a pen before the big index knuckle can and I think does cause nibs to become misaligned. A lot of stress making those little grand canyons in the paper.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[minddance]

The nibs should write out of the box, it is not a high expectation. And it is not a high standard. It is standard. There is no leeway, as our hands would tell us. Alignment is the only way. So there is no high or low standard, just one standard.

 

Professional pen makers, since they make pens for a living, should know this and know how to churn out a proper pen. Or else, what are we buying?

 

When we part with money in exchange for a pen, we expect to gain enjoyment, not to buy extra work for ourselves.

 

If you are buying pens like the m1000 or sailor 21k nibs or pilot soft gold nibs, those nibs are not easily adjustable (for me) it could be a never-ending wrestle with soft gold.

 

Luckily with Pelikans, I never have to touch any of the nibs. Same with Platinum Preppy. So price doesn't necessarily justify much. A pen should write. Simple. My Pelikano is also perfectly aligned. Whether it writes the way I want is another matter but under a loupe, tines are aligned.

 

Tine alignment: are tines aligned before they are factory-polished, or after they are polished? This makes a huge difference.

 

It is not a simple making one tine higher or lower, get it aligned and voila.

 

If the tine is already misaligned and the factory polishes and shapes it, then, even if it looks aligned after adjustment, it won't write optimally. I have had pens which are like this.

 

If the tine is polished aligned and it gets misaligned somehow during shipping(?!) or mishandling, then yes, a 'simple' adjustment might be the solution. I have also had pens which are like this.

Edited August 2, 2018 by minddance

[Driften]

...

If the tine is polished aligned and it gets misaligned somehow during shipping(?!) or mishandling, then yes, a 'simple' adjustment might be the solution. I have also had pens which are like this.

 

 

This is the only condition of misalignment that would be acceptable in a nib, anything else would be a bad nib grind/polish.

[1nkulus]

This is the only condition of misalignment that would be acceptable in a nib, anything else would be a bad nib grind/polish.

+1

 

As mentioned earlier, if a Preppy can do it why not others?

I have never had an issue with all the Preppy's I have owned over the years.

[djmaher]

The nibs should write out of the box, it is not a high expectation. And it is not a high standard. It is standard. There is no leeway, as our hands would tell us. Alignment is the only way. So there is no high or low standard, just one standard.

 

Professional pen makers, since they make pens for a living, should know this and know how to churn out a proper pen. Or else, what are we buying?

 

When we part with money in exchange for a pen, we expect to gain enjoyment, not to buy extra work for ourselves.

 

If you are buying pens like the m1000 or sailor 21k nibs or pilot soft gold nibs, those nibs are not easily adjustable (for me) it could be a never-ending wrestle with soft gold.

 

Luckily with Pelikans, I never have to touch any of the nibs. Same with Platinum Preppy. So price doesn't necessarily justify much. A pen should write. Simple. My Pelikano is also perfectly aligned. Whether it writes the way I want is another matter but under a loupe, tines are aligned.

 

 

 

Minddance pretty much puts my long-winded rant(s) in a far more elegant, direct form. In reading his post, it gets to the actual, genuine heart of the matter, despite how we feel about the subject, or what our own experiences are with pen manufacturers/distributors.

 

This was, more or less, my first experience with a significant nib misalignment. I louped every other nib (once I found my loupe!), just to see how the various pens I own compared to the M200 in question. Before I tweaked my M200, none of the others were quite that bad, and certainly didn't write that bad. I'm guessing I'm just lucky that I've not had any issues before. Even my Preppys wrote better, with the same ink in them. I'm not sure what that says, but, there it is.

 

My pen was capped inside its original box, and wrapped in bubble wrap, along with the ink, and traveled in a carry-on bag. I honestly can't say how rough handling of a shipped package wrapped reasonably carefully could cause a nib to pop out of alignment. I just don't know, and have not personally had that experience, as far as I know, with the fat handful of pens I've acquired through the years.

 

I think/know I was just majorly disappointed when I inked the pen. How could a "nice" pen like this write so lousy. It felt like a waste of $100+ dollars, and I was a bit bugged. Not to mention that it was a surprise gift that someone graciously bought for me. That sucks....

 

What are we buying, anyway? Exactly. That answer is different for everyone. I write like a madman. Perhaps compulsively. Crappy tools immediately put a bad taste in my mouth, especially since that experience is so unnecessary, most of the time. And, I do admit freely, that it gets my back up when manufacturers can be so short-sighted, probably because I've heard all of the excuses before. So, ya I do react when I get a product in my hand, with issues. And then, when you look to resolve it somehow, you get pushback.

 

Chartpak says they can't(won't) help me. Fine. I get mad about that. They tell me I have to deal with it directly with Pelikan. OK, sure. (In the meantime, I adjusted the nib on my own, with the help of people who replied to my post). So, I figure I'm going to get no joy from Chartpak. I then ask them to at least give the the contact info for customer service in Germany. Understand that they buy their pens and supplies directly from Pelikan Germany (I asked). They actually said they didn't have any contact info for me, and would look into it!! I'm still waiting for a reply!!! Some "standard", huh? Reasonable to expect a basic, average standard? Absolutely. One wonders why I feel jerked around a bit.

 

Anyway, pen "fixed", lessons learned, life goes on...... Perhaps if I didn't take my "writing" so "seriously", it wouldn't matter. Writing for some is just a casual, fun thing. A way to play with pens, ink and paper. For others, it is and can be a deeply personal and satisfying experience, connecting us to something that's kind of slowly disappearing. Maybe more balanced if it's a combination of both, I imagine.

 

Who gets to choose what's more important?

 

I'll report back if Chartpak gets back to me...

[Bo Bo Olson]

Back in analog days a US University packaged a gauge to see how much (the softer handled than now) packages were handled...the gauge broke.

Anything sent by mail is going to be field goal kicked by robots. A bubble wrapped pen is fine....but a bubble wrapped nib might be better.....don't know.

The solution is to buy in B&M's.

Lamy does check every pen for alignment by sound for the steel nibbed ones; then tweaks those that fail the sound drum test and I'm sure they have another little old lady upstairs checking the gold nibs (The gold pens section was closed for breakfast so the tour didn't get a chance to magpie gold.)

In every video from a major manufacture shows someone testing the nib.

 

So IMO it has to be display cases, not being really scientifically bomb proof made transport cases.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[1nkulus]

@ djmaher

 

I agree with your sentiments. Refer to my post #34.

 

Global is the new local esp. for pens.

 

OTOH, I have rarely had to send back a pen for QC issues.

I agree nib tweak should be an option, not a necessity. Sadly, QC is never 100% and it is unfortunate that you had bad luck.

Edited August 2, 2018 by 1nkulus

[macaddicted]

Writing with the pen verified that the tine did indeed move, and was in better alignment. My first alignment went well! And, now I know.

 

I’m glad it went well. It makes most everyone nervous the first time. The trick is to avoid anything that is self-evidently stupid in retrospect.

[sansenri]

think of the positive experience, you realigned a misaligned steel nib (so the taken risk was reasonably acceptable, even as your first time).

Now you know how and will feel more secure next time (there will be a next time...).

OK, OK, it should not happen on a new pen, granted, but consider the analogic nature of these instruments, they are not perfect, they are not all alike, and there is still a lot of influence the user itself can make on adjustments, fine tuning, etc.

Isn't that fantastic and the reason why you chose a fountain pen in the first place?

[1nkulus]

OK, OK, it should not happen on a new pen, granted, but consider the analogic nature of these instruments, they are not perfect, they are not all alike, and there is still a lot of influence the user itself can make on adjustments, fine tuning, etc.

Isn't that fantastic and the reason why you chose a fountain pen in the first place?

 

Majority of FP buyers don't consider a repairman skill set as a prerequisite.

 

As for us FP nerds, tweaks and anxious waits are part and parcel of the journey.

We usually end up buying with the heart and then brace ourselves to navigate the ensuing mess.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Addicts do lots of odd stuff.....non addicts send it back to the maker.............some even go back to ball points, with a Baa Humbug......... ***

They lack the stubborn blind perseverance of addicts.

 

*** I understand they are still looking for a Ball Point Com.

[BillH]

+1 Bo Bo