Brand New M200 Pen/nib Issues, And Needing Help/guidance

[djmaher]

To start, is this where I'd post a concern, and ask for help about a recent purchase of an M200 that I seem to be having "trouble" with?

 

Not sure if I should post here, or, in the repair section.

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

[macaddicted]

Probably here.

 

Not knowing what the problem is, and that it’s a new pen, I’ll guess it’s a flow problem. That’s something I’ve dealt with in new pels many times.

 

If that’s the problem then I recommend you fill and flush the pen ten (10) times with water.

[djmaher]

Thanks for the fast reply.

 

Before use, I actually did clean and flush my pen. I know the jury is forever out, but, I figure it can't hurt.

 

I ordered a Smoky Quartz M200 with an EF nib, along with a bottle of Edelstein Smoky Quartz ink. I inked my new pen up with said ink, and found it to be a very scratchy writing experience. I used Rhodia and Clairfontaine paper, so the paper is out of the equation. I have a handful of M200s, and my experience has been hit and miss as to the nibs being smooth or not. With a new pen, this kind of scratchy behavior is kind of annoying.

 

I put the same ink into a Pilot Perera, and Pilot Metro, both with M nibs, and they write as smooth as can be. For inexpensive pens, they've never given me a hint of trouble. So, maybe not necessarily the inks fault. I did re ink my M200 with 3 other inks, and still had the scratchy thing going on. I even began to think I was maybe holding my pen wrong, or pressing too hard, or something goofy like that. My penmanship is kinda awful, but, with the Pilots writing the same as before, I sort of eliminated that as a possible source of the trouble (although maybe not completely)

 

It did make me think that different pens might require being held and written with differently. I would still consider myself a non-everyday writer, perhaps with less fountain pen writing experience than I care to admit. But I also tend to just pick up a pen and begin writing randomly, without thinking about it too much, and I hate to have the silly pen break that "magic", if that makes sense.

 

I guess I'm kind of looking for someone who would be willing to walk me through this, especially since it's not the first time I've had trouble with Pelikan nibs. I want to know if it's maybe something I'm doing wrong.

 

I do have a couple of replacement Pelikan basic steel nibs that I can swap out with (another EF, an F and a M). I cant remember what kind of shape they are in, smoothness wise. I really like the New Pelikan ink color, so, I will keep that the same. Maybe just remove to original nib, clean it and replace it with the others, one at a time, and see what happens.

 

I'll also try to take a high-res photo of the new EF nib, and post it here for comments, if tha'ts appropriate. I don't know the limits as to resolution here, but, maybe someone can guide me there.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Maybe I'm being too fussy, but, it's a real drag to get a new pen, and almost instantly get a bad taste in my mouth when I use it for the first time. It make me almost not want to use it, but, I've taken a deep breath, and am prepared to put in a little work to get to the bottom if it.

 

Thank you in advance for whatever help you can give.

 

Dave

[macaddicted]

Second new pen fix: brown paper bag.

 

If you have a brown paper shopping bag try using light pressure to write largish swirls with the pen on the bag. The paper is usually just rough enough to smooth out the pen without sanding the tip down. That should at least help (with little risk of harm risking harm).

 

The photo file size limit is 4 mb IIRC. That allows for a sizable picture. If you can crop in on the nib.

[senzen]

Sorry to hear that, I'm on my third Pelikan, and have had no problems: 18k F, two steel F.

 

First, and please don't take this the wrong way: Are you using the pen's sweet spot? Given that it's an EF, it's going to be very small, smaller than with Japanese M nibs. Try rotating the pen in your hands and writing at different angles of rotation: is it rough no matter what?

 

Second, if it is, check the alignment of the tines and upload a picture, they might need to be aligned.

[Driften]

First thing is to check the tine alignment with a magnifying glass/loop. That is normally where scratchy feelings come from. Also is it more scratchy in one direction then others? That would also point to misalignment.

[ac12]

Do NOT attempt to smoothen the nib with ANYTHING until you determine that the nib is NOT out of alignment.

You align the nib FIRST, then you smoothen the tipping.

Once you remove tipping material, you cannot put it back.

 

First, I would normally check the nib with a 10x loupe, and visually align the nib.

Then, do as Driften said, test if the pen is scratchy in one direction or the other L->R or L<-R.

 

Then, as psudo88 said, you NEED to make sure that you are writing on the "sweet spot" of the nib, or the ink won't flow. And a dry nib makes for a scratchy writer. It may "look" like you have the nib level, when it really isn't, so you have to be careful/deliberate on this.

 

If there is a pen club/posse near you, you could bring the pen there for an experienced person to check out for you.

[akrohn2010]

First thing is to check the tine alignment with a magnifying glass/loop. That is normally where scratchy feelings come from. Also is it more scratchy in one direction then others? That would also point to misalignment.

+1

 

Be careful smoothing/sanding/going straight to micro mesh until you've checked the tines.

 

How is the ink line it puts down compared to the Pilot pens? If it is not as dark, full, or consistent your tines could be too tight or the feed could be partially blocked: the ink plays a key part in lubricating the nib across the paper.

 

Good luck!

[jmnav]

The nib is probably misaligned. These pens come with "bloby" points (maybe a bit less than their gold counterparts, but even then...). You have other pens which don't give you any problems, so you are used to fountain pens: no it shouldn't be scrappy at all since even the 'F' nib from Pelikan is quite fat.

 

You can, of course, put it under a loupe and try to correct it yourself but, since it's a new pen, I'd send it back to the vendor or, if there's any Pelikan dealer near you, I'd show it to them. Remember it's not only under warranty, but also within the exchange-nib-for-free period.

[djmaher]

So, by doing circles and loops, hashtags and slashes, grid patterns, etc., is that a good way to at least identify a misalignment? I'm asking as a FP user who's never had an issue like this before, at least one I can remember.

 

So, is structured "scribbling" a valid way to troubleshoot a potential problem like this, and, if so, what should I be looking for when I do?

 

I'm still looking for my dammed loupe LOL I'm sure it's around here somewhere.

 

I also recall seeing photographs on FPN as to what nibs should "look like", before and after writing and use, etc.

 

Maybe if I could get links to those photos, it might help (a bit) in knowing what I'm looking at/for.

 

Thanks once again for all your help!

 

I will report back after my scribble tests,,

[Bo Bo Olson]

Jmnav is right about returning, if not a misalignment problem...even so if you don't want to fiddle with it .

 

Do find and keep in one place your loup.

 

Nibs can be knocked out of alignment in postage; a slight knock on the desk. (Back in analog days some University mailed a testing gauge....that arrived broken. That was back in the days of more gentle handling with out ham footed Robot Assist.

 

But send it back for a new EF nib if aligned and the problem don't lay there.

 

And that scribbling looking for the problem with out a loupe has always seemed much more trouble than it is worth.....with a brand new able to return pen.

 

Got the same pen in EF, no problems, now have Smoky Quartz in it too.

Never had a problem with my 215, or Amethyst or the new Marbled Brown....which are some of the very few new pens I've bought.

Got lucky, none of my 200's are blobby.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[djmaher]

Long story, but bought the pen and ink from a retailer in Germany online at Amazon. None of my usual haunts here in the USA had both the ink and the pen. Of course, I "needed" a new pen.

 

So, the return shipping for exchange becomes a bit problematic. Had a friend who was in Berlin a few weeks back, and scored a small bottle of Diamine Skull and Roses ink, which, I gather, is only available in Germany. It was a hard find for my friend, but she eventually found a bottle that someone special ordered but never picked up! A most excellent, colorful ink! If my handwriting was better, I might chance a ink review here. We will see.

 

But, I digress....

 

I have two other nibs I can try for comparison. (an EF and a M)

 

My penmanship isn't good enough to perhaps find this nib's "sweet spot". I've tried varying my grip and pen angle, and pressure as well. It just feels scratchy in whatever direction I write in. Even some basic scribbles, in various directions, are a rough go.

 

I'll report back.....

[minddance]

M200 is a rather small and light pen when unposted. Grip and pen rotation can be an issue if not careful.

 

M200 EF is really quite fine and the sweet spot is not always conveniently found, especially when switching from Pilot M nibs, which are actually rather broad at the sweet spot.

 

Tine alignment is always important regardless of brand of pen.

 

Rhodia, however, can be an issue. Why? Because it is smooth and causes the nib to slip in and out of its sweet spot very easily. With an already small sweet spot and easily slipping in and out of it, it can be difficult to write.

 

As a result, the hand might be constantly looking for balance, stability and foothold, and might explore other angles and areas of the nib (which are not the sweet spot and therefore feel rough/scratchy) or might exert more pressure (hoping to dominate the writing experience), in search of that elusive sweet spot - not only with m200 but also other pens.

 

Also, Rhodia is not absorbent. In order to lay more ink onto paper and achieve a darker look, the hand might exert pressure when actually, lightening the touch could lay more ink sometimes.

 

The increased writing pressure can translate to scratch, especially with very fine nibs.

 

If you have problems with several Pelikan nibs, well, I wouldn't say Pelikans are perfect, but something is certainly quite off.

 

Smoky Quartz offers a very pleasant writing experience for me. It could be technical issues with the nib.

 

Refund/exchange is always the most convenient option but if that cannot happen, check the nib under a loupe for alignment issues.

 

I would not recommend smoothing and sanding with micromesh or any abrasive.

Edited July 18, 2018 by minddance

[macaddicted]

I'm still looking for my dammed loupe LOL I'm sure it's around here somewhere.

If you have a phone with a magnify function (e.g. iPhone) you could use that in a pinch.

[Calabria]

Without looking at the tip with a magnifier we can't help. Pelikan nibs come with all kinds of quirks - misaligned tines, off-center slits, too much or too little tipping (I bought my last M2xx with three nibs; the EF and M were fine but about the same width, the F was dry and superfine - )

[Bo Bo Olson]

Amazon will return it for you...........

 

I have my 10X glass loupe before my eyes always.

Somehow my wife has now two lighted 40X Chinese loupes (actually 10X) including mine.

 

Middance had some very good advice.

 

Do post your 200's in by lining up the clip with the nib center it's easier to keep it on the tiny sweet spot. Prevents rotating the tip.

 

There is on my Clairefountaine Triomphe a tad more scratchy sound, than on my 90g Rhoda. My regular 80g copy paper is about as scratchy ....in I'm editing something , so print on the cheap stuff, it has a scratchy sound too.

 

It's more a scratchy sound, than scratchy by me. It's not near as smooth as my M nibs on my other 200's of course.

To expect butter smooth on an EF, I think you have to go Japanese...their F....and they might be nails. The 200 nib is a nice springy regular flex.

 

You could try a wet ink....in Edelsteine is on the dry side....not as dry as 4001, but perhaps dryer than MB.

 

What other inks do you have? Someone can tell you which is wettest, and or most lubricated.

 

Next time I ink that new marbled brown 200, I'll give a wetter ink a try...now that I noticed the sound. ....DA Royal Blue...is wetter ink for me. In I chase shading inks, I don't have a lot of supersaturated, or highly lubricated inks.

I don't have much in Noodlers (2)....and those are shading inks, so completely useless in an EF nib.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[Bo Bo Olson]

Luckily, this morning I ran out of ink in my 200 EF, so was able to put a more lubricated DA Royal Blue in it.

There is a touch less 'sound' on the tested papers....Clairefountaine Triomphe & 90g Rhoda.

But there is still sound.

 

Where does or if it does, where does sound edge over into scratchy with a EF nib?

As long as I'm on the tiny sweet spot, I don't think of the sound as scratchy.

But butter smooth is not an always goal of mine.

[inkstainedruth]

It could be the nib. My first M200 Café Crème, which had a B nib, had flow issues, no matter what ink I put in it. A nibmeister at a pen show put it right. Easier and cheaper than sending it back to Germany (I bought the pen from Rolf Thiel at Missing Pens from off eBay).

Of course, 6 months after the nib was nicely tuned, I lost the pen....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Bo Bo Olson]

Ruth.... .....

 

As I've stated many times US post is very expensive vs German post.

[djmaher]

Well,

 

I swapped out the offending, original "new" nib with another EF nib I have, and found the older nib, while not perfect, is not as scratchy. Did the same again with a M nib I have, and again, found not only a broader line, but a somewhat smoother write. I've left the M nib in for now.

 

And thanks for making me think a little more about the "scratch" vs. 'noise' when writing. I guess it's not something you'd necessarily think about when writing, but, my experience is that, coming from the ball point pen world, fountain pens have always been "noisier" than the pens I've used previous.I know there are alot of variables that cause that, but, it's something I've become accustomed to, and oddly now find a bit comforting. As if the pen is somehow more connected to my writing now...

 

Anyway, the "scratch" I feel with this nib I actually "feel" in the pen. And, as I said, my penmanship is somewhat lousy, so my hand and arm angle varies enough probably to move off of the pen's sweet spot. It's just something I have to learn and become more consistent at. Perhaps someone here at FPN can help me to correct my handwriting, which is something I've want to do in like forever. Any takers or suggestions? I journal alot, so I write all sorts of places and in all sorts of positions. Usually soft cover journals. Now Rhodia or Clairfontaine. I ditched my Moleskine. Kinda got tired of the paper inconsistency. It's a bit rare if I sit at a desk on a flat surface.

 

I'm working on nib photos. Coming soon.

 

All the replies are helpful and greatly appreciated. I'm still on this journey, so, keep 'em coming!

 

Dave