Gel-Ink Look But With Fountain Pen Ink?

[Torrilin]

There’s multiple factors involved in smear. Is the ink still wet? How much dye or pigment is deposited? Does the dye or pigment form a chemical bond with the paper? Is the colorant prone to dissolving easily in liquid?

 

So there’s no straightforward answer to will a given ink smear.

[jmccarty3]

I have not seen any smearing with Monteverde Documental Blue or Sailor Souboku.

[CoolBreeze]

Graf Von Faber Castell - cartridge - Royal Blue? - the color of the cartridge was not really known but I ran this under water and it was completely gone so I am assuming it's their Royal Blue which is the only blue that comes close to the color that is "deletable" according to their web page.

 

I put this ink on CF, Rhodia, Black N' Red, and Franklin-Christoph paper. All with the a Faber-Castell Loom with Medium nib. On all papers it looked relatively the same. It is a rather unsaturated pale blue ink. The color goes slightly more to the purple shade when compared to the shade of Pilot Blue. I would qualify this as pale, washed out, basic, and uninspiring. Strike out.

Edited August 25, 2018 by CoolBreeze

[Sailor Kenshin]

I LOVELOVELOVE the vibrant blue of my Uni-Ball 307, and would really be interested to know if there is a fountain pen ink that duplicates it.

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sITIbMr8Ixs/VYCCXrKELWI/AAAAAAAAgLY/B3eeslMyZ2M/s0/IMG_0877.jpg

Monteverde Horizon Blue. Possibly.

[tvradio]

Monteverde Horizon Blue. Possibly.

Thanks. That's on my samples-to-buy list, along with Visconti Blue.

 

Just bought a glass dip pen from Amazon, hope to use it soon!

[CoolBreeze]

I have been away from posting about my search but not away from doing some testing! I have been focusing recently on DeAtramentis Document Inks. The reason is that it has been hard for me to find the kind of color that I want with type of properties that I am looking for. All of the really amazing colors that I have found a just simply difficult to work with. For example - Organic Studio Nitrogen is an amazing color but literally smears after being "dry" for 2 months. Kung Te Cheng is a great color but can sometimes dry out in my pen which is a pain.

 

I really love the color of Private Reserve Tanzanite but that can also smear after being "dry" - I am still doing some testing on this. This is an amazing color to me. It looks so saturated. It has this glossy sheen to it. It is just beautiful. It just smears and I hate that.

 

I set out trying to replicate the PR Tanzanite by mixing the DeA inks a la Jane Blundall - I haven't yet figured it out completely but I will say I enjoy using the ink and it has replaced my "base go-to ink" that used to be Pilot Blue. Things I like about it: 1) dries super quickly (no smear at all), 2) absolutely waterproof, 3) you can mix colors, 4) never dries out in pen, and 5) very little shading/nice saturation. Things I don't like: 1) the line width looks slightly larger than other inks in the same pen (not a huge deal), 2) sometimes you can get some show through/bleed depending on the paper, and 3) there is not necessarily a liquid richness or luster to the color.

 

With regards to not having a liquid richness/luster - I think this what you have to expect with waterproof inks. All the ones I have seen so far are like this. Maybe "chalky" is a way to describe it? DeA is only slightly so and it is an ok compromise. I will say this- KTC is the exception to the rule on this - It is magical unicorn if you can put up with the dryness. Pilot Blue is partially waterproof and doesn't look chalky if you can like shading (I don't - at least not that kind where it looks super watery then semi saturated). I just got a sample of Noodler's Liberty's Elysium and it looks great - however it is only partially waterproof and it refuses to flow through my Prera at all (still need to do some testing). I would have no problem sacrificing the waterproofness if it would just flow! I am not talking about hard starts - I am talking about complete stoppage.

 

With DeA - I am using a 3:1 (Blue to Fuchsia) ratio and it looks good so far for a "burple" color. I am planning to get black soon and maybe if I add some black I can get a "deeper/richer" color. I am not sure what the black looks like in real life though as it could be "chalky" too.

 

At this point - I ***think*** that I am off the quest for the complete waterproof property as I have found it with DeA. I still have some Noodler's to test and I am looking for a great teal and a great burgundy color that I have yet to find or mix.

 

If I give up waterproof - I just need it to not smear after being "dry" or with slightly sweaty hands when I go back over my notes. I would also like it to dry under 20 seconds if possible. I think that will open the door for some really fun colors. The quest continues.

Edited November 29, 2018 by CoolBreeze

[CoolBreeze]

I have been spending most of my time writing with DeA document inks. They really are great inks. They are completely waterproof, flow wet, dry quick, no dry smear, no hard starts, and you can mix them to get custom colors. The only thing they really don't do for me is have colors (no matter what you mix) that 'bounce off the page". They are very saturated inks that don't have a lot of shading (which I like), which, in the beginning, satisfied my "need" for a "gel-like" ink especially compared to my previous staple Pilot Blue which looks so watered down to me. However, it would still be nice to find some inks that really look "liquidy" when dry and "pop off the page". I have test a of waterproof inks - I am not sure this characteristic is possible with inks that have that characteristic.

 

I just got around to testing Liberty's Elysium and it is a brilliant blue ink that from an appearance perspective checks the box of a gel-like saturated liquidy ink. Of the blues that I have tried, this is the one that has come closest (if not meets) my requirements from the looks perspective. I was also surprised to really like the subtle shading of the ink which looked both saturated in both the lighter color portion and the darker portion which is fantastic vs some of the other shading I have seen that just looks watered down. As cellmatrix said in post 57, if properly applied and not overdone - it can add dimension and nuance and I really like it with this ink.

 

It is not a perfect ink however, it wouldn't even flow after a day in my Pilot Prera and I get a lot of hard starts in my FC Loom. If I waited more than 15 seconds to write the next word - hard start. This is pretty annoying to me but its great to know the kind of color I am looking for is out there. Because of the hard starts, its not going to be a go-to ink so I am still on the hunt for a ink with the appearance I am looking for that doesn't dry smear or hard start. Any blues (any shade) that you all like that meet this criteria?

 

Here are some pics - they look much truer to color on my phone than on my computer. The paper color on my phone is white while it looks tan here for some reason. Hopefully it helps you all nonetheless.

Edited February 8, 2019 by CoolBreeze

[CoolBreeze]

I just went through this thread again and it has some real gems of wisdom! I also compiled all of the suggestions already made in roughly alphabetical order. I also have a bunch of potentials from some of the Parker Penman Sapphire threads that I may try to compile and put in another list on this thread when I get a chance.

 

Sailor pigmented black
J. Herbin Perle Noir
Platinum carbon black
Aurora Black

Diamine Sherwood Green
Diamine Green Black

Callifolio Bleu Equinoxe #5
Colorverse Extra Dimension
Diamine Asa Blue
Diamine Bilberry
Diamine Blue Black
Diamine Blue Velvet
Diamine Chocolate Brown
Diamine Oxblood
Diamine Oxford Blue
Diamine Majestic Blue
Diamine Midnight
Diamine Sapphire Blue
Diamine Sargasso Sea
J. Herbin Eclat de Saphir
J. Herbin Perle Noir
J. Herbin Poussiere de Lune
KWZI Azure #5
Levenger Amethyst
Levenger Cobalt Blue
Monteverde Horizon Blue
Organics Studio Ralph Waldo Emerson Twilight Blue (sheen monster)
Pelikan Iconic Blue
Pilot Iroshizuku Asa Gao
R&K Sepia
R&K Blue Mare
Sailor Jentle Blue
Sailor Jentle Chu Shu
Sailor Jentle Shigure
Sailor Jentle Souten
Sailor Jentle Rikyu Cha

[CoolBreeze]

I was able to compile a list of inks that I can across when I was looking for Parker Penman Sapphire and Baystate Blue alternatives. It may have some of the same as the list above. I am not chasing exact replicas of either so the colors might be a range of blues. I am just hoping to find something as I have described in previous posts.

 

On a complete side note- I also have been looking for inks in green, teal, magenta (Iroshizuku Yama Budo-like), purple, "burple", and lots of blues! I am also looking for a sepia or brown but all my requirements may not apply - I like the shading in some of the inks like J. Herbin Lie de The. They look fantastic - like ink on old parchment - I love that look in brown for some reason (in addition to more saturated browns). But these projects hasn't really kicked off yet.

 

Akkerman Shocking Blue
Aurora Blue
DeAtramentis Sapphire Blue
DeAtramentis Hyacinth
Diamine Bilberry
Diamine Imperial Blue
Diamine Radiant Blue (Mr. Pen)
Diamine Royal Blue
Diamine Sapphire Blue
Diamine Sargasso sea

J Herbin - Elat de Sapphire
Noodler's Liberty's Elysium
Pilot Iroshizuku Asa gao
Pilot Iroshizuku Kon peki
Private Reserve DC Super Show Blue
Private Reserve Electric DC Blue
Monteverde Sapphire
Monteverde Horizon Blue
Monteverde Ocean Noir
Visconti Blue

 

If any of you all have tried any of these and can give some comparison thoughts on them it would be helpful - I am trying to narrow the list down so I can get some samples.

Edited February 8, 2019 by CoolBreeze

[minddance]

Kon Peki can be quite transparent and light in dry and/or fine-nib pens and can also be very shadey. Not sure if these inks agree with the 'gel pen look' that is the title of this topic. Ditto Herbin Poussiere, RK Blu Mare, Sepia, Diamine Sherwood Green.

 

As always, paper and pen and style of writing affect the look.

[CoolBreeze]

Kon Peki can be quite transparent and light in dry and/or fine-nib pens and can also be very shadey. Not sure if these inks agree with the 'gel pen look' that is the title of this topic. Ditto Herbin Poussiere, RK Blu Mare, Sepia, Diamine Sherwood Green.

 

As always, paper and pen and style of writing affect the look.

This is exactly the kind of info that I am looking for! Thanks so much again minddance. Looking at all these samples online is hard especially when I see what my pictures look like vs. what i actually see. Its hard to determine what is accurate.

[minddance]

This is exactly the kind of info that I am looking for! Thanks so much again minddance. Looking at all these samples online is hard especially when I see what my pictures look like vs. what i actually see. Its hard to determine what is accurate.

No problem in my humble experience, there is no 'accurate': reviewers sometimes get their pens nibmeistered or adjust their nibs, writing styles and speed/velocity differ - and some inks are more sensitive/responsive to these variables than others. All I can do is make a somewhat 'educated' guess.

 

Please let us know more on the inks you've tried!

[CoolBreeze]

No problem in my humble experience, there is no 'accurate': reviewers sometimes get their pens nibmeistered or adjust their nibs, writing styles and speed/velocity differ - and some inks are more sensitive/responsive to these variables than others. All I can do is make a somewhat 'educated' guess.

 

Please let us know more on the inks you've tried!

I agree and will take what I can get!

[CoolBreeze]

I just got 10 ink samples in the mail today and had the opportunity to play with 3 of them. Monteverde Sapphire Blue, Monteverde Horizon Blue, and Pilot Iroshizuku Asa-gao. These were some interesting samples!!!

 

Monteverde Sapphire Blue - This was a magnificent dark blue and from the looks perspective looks fantastic. I think it looked actually better than most gel/rollerball pens I have. Liquidy, very little if any shading. Dry times are 10 seconds. I am getting some hard starts and flow issues with my medium nibbed Faber Castell loom - this is only preliminary findings so I am going to test it in other pens too. I would really like this to work

 

Monteverde Horizon Blue - another interesting ink. When looking at the ink sample in the vial it reminded me of DeA document inks. It didn't stick at all to the sides of the vial. You could turn it over and over and the only place you saw the shade of the ink is where the ink actually was. I put this in a medium nibbed pilot prera so the comparison to Liberty's Elysium might be premature but it almost looks exactly like it to my eyes. It will be fun to put this in a thicker nibbed pen to see. Dry times are 8 seconds with the Prera - nice.

 

Pilot Iroshizuku Asa-gao - I am not sure what to think of this ink. The first thing that comes to mind is "basic". It meets the criteria for not shading (it has very little and it is perfectly acceptable), it has no sheen, it is not chalky looking like DeA inks. But it is also not liquidy looking either. It is also not washed out to my eyes like Pilot Blue - its interesting in that it is none of those things and completely unique in its own right. But since there is nothing special about it, the word "basic" comes to mind - I think I'm passing on this one.

Edited February 15, 2019 by CoolBreeze

[CoolBreeze]

I have been playing around with some ink in the quest for some nice (to my eyes) ink and below are some pictures. Here are my thoughts:

J. Herbin Eclat de Saphir
Diamine Sapphire
DeAtramentis Hyacinth
Pilot Iroshizuku Asa-gao

These inks all fall under the same category to me as normal "school" blues either in the true blue/royal blue sense or maybe hinting ever so slightly purple. Eclat de Saphir and Diamine Sapphire look almost identical to me. Both look pale and washed out. That being said, the color is great and saturated for the first few words after leaving the pen capped for a week. Clearly a no go. Diamine Sapphire also stained a c/c. Pilot Asa-gao (only 1 step above the previous 2 in saturation) and DeA Hyacinth are darker blues both having some red sheen to them. DeA is more saturated and less "basic" of the 2 - however the colors are less than inspiring. I guess I just don't like normal blues.

Diamine Blue Velvet - this is a supersaturated rich color. It actually is rather nice. Its a little darker than Monteverde Horizon blue and shades and sheens more. Because of this, the read-back is a little more distracting. Sometimes its hard to tell if it is shading or sheen in the dark portions of it but there is definitely a lot of color variation. Because of this, it is not my first choice. Nice color though.

Monteverde Horizon Blue - This is a really nice ink. It can be lighter or darker depending on the pen but I like the colors either way which is good. When it looks darker it looks almost exactly (both in color tone and saturation) to my Pentel Energel blue ink. I believe most of the color variation comes from sheen but it is not overly distracting. In drier pens it, the color leans ever so slightly to the Kon-Peki side of blue. In wetter pens, parts of letter look ever so slightly more purple (red sheen and blue together) - while other parts just look like a very dark kon-peki.

Monteverde Sapphire Blue - This ink is very saturated and very pen dependent - In wetter pens the color looked almost black with a gold/copper sheen that I hate. In drier pens, it is the most beautify dark blue purple. Absolutely gorgeous. Even in drier pens however, the gold/copper sheen is still present and I am not really a fan when I see it. I did try diluting it with distilled water but that just result in unwanted shading. The jury is still out on this one

Pilot Iroshizuku Kon-Peki - This is pen dependent as far as color but I like it in drier pens and wetter pens. On the light side, it goes from the darkest Ama-Iro that I could get and in wetter pens it is a beautiful blue. I think there is a lot of shading and sheen in this ink and although the read-back can be slightly distracting I love the colors anyway. When it shades, the lighter blue tone looks like it is glowing out from the paper (vs. Diamine Sapphire/Herbin Eclat just look washed out with water like water color paint). The sheen is pink and when you mix that with the darker blues, the color is beautiful. This ink really goes against everything I want in an ink but the color bumps it up to winner status (at least sometimes) - I guess the reputation is well deserved especially when darker in wetter pens.

Edited April 1, 2019 by CoolBreeze

[CoolBreeze]

1 more

[CoolBreeze]

actual gel pens

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by CoolBreeze

[Jerome10]

Just read this entire thread.  Hoping the OP is still around as I'd love to know what ink you finally decided on.  I think you're definitely getting close on the Liberty's Elysium and the Monteverde Horizon Blue.

 

Just like you, I love gel pens.  I've tried them all, or at least all the ones people seem to say are their "favorite".  The Pentel Energel in 1.0mm bold is exactly the blue look that I love.  Its the right color, it pops on the paper, it has character without being "childish" for a blue (if that makes sense).  And like the OP, I love that kinda wet, goopy(?) feel as you use a gel pen and then it dries with character.  Someone also mentioned the Uniball 307.  I have not used the 307 as it is not available in 1.0mm but I do have the Signo 207.  I don't like the feel of the pen as much, but again, the blue is absolutely perfect.  Maybe just a bit lighter than the Pentel Energel.  And inky and wet as you write.

 

Sheen?  I'm not sure about this one.  I might say gel has some but I'm not an expert here...

 

I'm not a huge FP guy, but I do love italic / stub look, which keeps a handful of them around my desk.  My ultimate goal: combine the wet, goopy, gel pen feel and blue color with an italic / stub nib.  While I have some bigger stubs, my Pilot Metropolitan Medium Italic is perfect, as far as the line width goes (not my favorite pen).  I can use that size for daily writing. 

 

I used to be a black ink guy, so I only have Diamine Sargasso Sea and Iroshizuku Ama-Iro.  The Ama-Iro is a cool ink, but it doesn't really come close to gel, though I need to put it in a pen and try again as it has been awhile.  I re-inked the Metropolitan with the Sargasso Sea today, and I will say, it is much closer to gel than I had remembered.  The color is too dark to match the Pentel or Signo 207.... but it does seem to go on wet and does not have shading.  I would probably be happy with the way the Sargasso Sea writes.... just need it in Pentel blue.

 

Will keep browsing but if you've found the solution, I'd love to hear it!  Will order a bottle!

 

As a side note since gel pens:  Zebra makes the best gel pens.  Sarasa Clip or the Sarasa X20.  The Pentel have just a slight bit of cheap feel in the way they write, the Signo 207 more so, but these two have the nicest blues.  TUL are pretty solid too (not avail in 1.0mm either).  The G2 is garbage in my opinion.  Uniball Signo UM-153 is also very good, and similar to the 207 in color, but again not QUITE there (maybe #2 after the Zebras).  Papermate InkJoy are also very good but unfortunately not available in 1.0mm.  Sharpie S-Gel is 2nd worst (only the G2 sucks more).  The Zebras write with such smoothness, put down a wet, strong line, and in the X20 with the rapid-dry ink dry basically instantaneously.  Everything feels quality and writes perfectly.  The downside is that the Zebras just do not have the color look of the Pentel or Signos.... which is why i'm here.  I want a pen that writes like Zebra with a blue that looks like Pentel Energel, with an italic/stub nib.

[CoolBreeze]

I love reviving old threads! Thanks for reading the whole thing...

 

I still love these types of inks and its what I gravitate too (that and inks that have a outline or halo). I have found that its really a combo of things to get this gel-look (or better) out of a fountain pen: nib size, nib wetness, paper, and wetness of the ink (of course).

Nib size - you simply heave to go finer with nib size. A medium fountain pen nib equals more than a 0.7 gel pen. Its very hard to measure with calipers under magnification but a 0.7 gel is considerably thinner than a medium nib Fp. I don't know if that is because the gel is thinner or the Fp is thicker but I have seen it with my own eyes. So I am working on gravitating all of my pens to smaller nib sizes. The larger nib basically dilutes the ink as it spreads it around making that liquid look much more faded.

Nib Wetness - Most fountain pens with plastic feeds simply are too dry of writers. The ink channels are either too slim or cut poorly. I take a brass shim and run the corner down all my feeds until it is almost smooth (not catching on anything - there maybe be slight bumps but as long as its smooth I am good). You will get some tiny specs of plastic feed that come up from doing this. I can't see microscopically what is happening but it is either digger a deeper channel or clearing the channel from any impediments. I go in both directions but always end my last pass going towards the tip with the shim because that is the direction of ink flow. I then clean with soapy water to make sure there is no debris. 

Paper - I like tomoe river or sugarcane paper. I don't really like Rhodia, Clairfontaine, Optik for this purpose. It feels great I realize I am  in the minority on this but the ink looks considerably flatter and chalky to me. This is in general. I am sure there are exceptions. But you will need a wetter pen and wetter ink to get it to work compared to the other paper.

Ink Wetness -  There are some inks that just flow and lay down a wet line no matter what pen you use.  Here are some inks that I have found to FLOW! 

 

Diamine Asa Blue

Diamine Regency Blue

Ferris Wheel Press Tanzanite

J. Herbin 1670 Blue Ocean

Monteverde Charoite

Monteverde Sapphire

Taccia Sora (looks liquidy but only in a wet pen - Also some other Taccia inks)

 

Liberty's Elysium did not quite cut it, nor did any of the DeAtramentis document inks that also "flow" - Its just the way it is with permanent inks. I think Monteverde Horizon Blue made the cut but I only had a sample and didn't really pay much attention to it because I like blues that are more purply or turqoisey than true blues. If you are looking for a the color of normal energel blue (please let me know), there are a lot more options I think. I will have too look back at notebooks to see what I found.

 

I have come to love the way fountain pen ink looks over gel ink but it took me awhile of ink/paper sampling plus getting nibs to write wet enough to get what I like. PROTIP - you can use the reverse nib (write with the feed up) to get a thinner line to see if the ink looks good with the thinner line. Some reverse writing is inherently dryer so it doesn't always work. However, I have a FC Loom Medium nib that writes the BEST size line in my collection in reverse so you never know.

 

Anyways, let me know if I missed anything and I can address.

[CoolBreeze]

17 hours ago, Jerome10 said:

Just read this entire thread.  Hoping the OP is still around as I'd love to know what ink you finally decided on.  I think you're definitely getting close on the Liberty's Elysium and the Monteverde Horizon Blue.

 

Just like you, I love gel pens.  I've tried them all, or at least all the ones people seem to say are their "favorite".  The Pentel Energel in 1.0mm bold is exactly the blue look that I love.  Its the right color, it pops on the paper, it has character without being "childish" for a blue (if that makes sense).  And like the OP, I love that kinda wet, goopy(?) feel as you use a gel pen and then it dries with character.  Someone also mentioned the Uniball 307.  I have not used the 307 as it is not available in 1.0mm but I do have the Signo 207.  I don't like the feel of the pen as much, but again, the blue is absolutely perfect.  Maybe just a bit lighter than the Pentel Energel.  And inky and wet as you write.

 

Sheen?  I'm not sure about this one.  I might say gel has some but I'm not an expert here...

 

I'm not a huge FP guy, but I do love italic / stub look, which keeps a handful of them around my desk.  My ultimate goal: combine the wet, goopy, gel pen feel and blue color with an italic / stub nib.  While I have some bigger stubs, my Pilot Metropolitan Medium Italic is perfect, as far as the line width goes (not my favorite pen).  I can use that size for daily writing. 

 

I used to be a black ink guy, so I only have Diamine Sargasso Sea and Iroshizuku Ama-Iro.  The Ama-Iro is a cool ink, but it doesn't really come close to gel, though I need to put it in a pen and try again as it has been awhile.  I re-inked the Metropolitan with the Sargasso Sea today, and I will say, it is much closer to gel than I had remembered.  The color is too dark to match the Pentel or Signo 207.... but it does seem to go on wet and does not have shading.  I would probably be happy with the way the Sargasso Sea writes.... just need it in Pentel blue.

 

Will keep browsing but if you've found the solution, I'd love to hear it!  Will order a bottle!

 

As a side note since gel pens:  Zebra makes the best gel pens.  Sarasa Clip or the Sarasa X20.  The Pentel have just a slight bit of cheap feel in the way they write, the Signo 207 more so, but these two have the nicest blues.  TUL are pretty solid too (not avail in 1.0mm either).  The G2 is garbage in my opinion.  Uniball Signo UM-153 is also very good, and similar to the 207 in color, but again not QUITE there (maybe #2 after the Zebras).  Papermate InkJoy are also very good but unfortunately not available in 1.0mm.  Sharpie S-Gel is 2nd worst (only the G2 sucks more).  The Zebras write with such smoothness, put down a wet, strong line, and in the X20 with the rapid-dry ink dry basically instantaneously.  Everything feels quality and writes perfectly.  The downside is that the Zebras just do not have the color look of the Pentel or Signos.... which is why i'm here.  I want a pen that writes like Zebra with a blue that looks like Pentel Energel, with an italic/stub nib.

A quick look in my notebooks and I think Kon Peki is very close to energel blue....but only in a wet pen.