Gel-Ink Look But With Fountain Pen Ink?

[minddance]

Same paper and pen, Diamine Sherwood Green, freshly written. This ink can fade quite a bit after some time. This is a steel nib, Kaweco Sport Fine, adjusted for wetness. I chopped off 2fins from the feed and widened the tines abit for wetness.

[minddance]

R&K Sepia, Rhodia Notebook (absorbent side) Pelikan M200F, unadjusted nib, unprimed feed. Ink aged for about a month in pen.

[minddance]

This very absorbent (cheap) paper, Kokuyo Gambol, smooth and absorbent. Yet no feathering (as long as inner tines/nib edges don't scrape paper off) with super wet pens (adjusted v wet Kaweco Sport Fine) and Diamine Sherwood Green - and many other inks too.

Edited July 6, 2018 by minddance

[minddance]

This is Kokuyo Campus Gambol paper, absorbent, Sailor 21k MF Progear, Diamine midnight, unadjusted nib, unadulterated ink. Taken in strong sunlight.

 

There are still just abit of nuances/tonal variations possibly due to oily paper and variations in my writing angle. Under magnification, nuances can be found (whispers to the reader that it was written using a fountain pen; at a reading distance, the lines appear solid and saturated and non-distracting.

[minddance]

This is rohrer & klingner Dokumente Brown in a rather dry and smooth Pilot Plumix Medium, unadjusted. Paper is Rhodia Notebook (the absorbent side).

 

Very subtle shadings show up under strong afternoon sunlight and magnification. This is freshly inked, and would only turn more saturated after 2-3days, and would provide a darker and more solid line, especially in this ill-sealed Pilot Plumix. Currently, eyes at reading distance from paper, depending on eyesight and lightning, the line is rather solid.

 

The ink is highly legible, contrasted and easy to read without distractions - and pleasures - of dramatic shadings and tonal variations. Waterproof too. It flows extremely well even in dry pens/nibs.

Edited July 6, 2018 by minddance

[minddance]

The pens used, L to R:

 

Pilot Plumix Medium (unadjusted)

Sailor Progear 21k mf (unadjusted)

Pelikan M200 Cognac Fine (unadjusted)

Kaweco Sport Green Fine (adjusted: tines spread and chopped off 2 fins from feed).

Edited July 6, 2018 by minddance

[minddance]

This is what Pilot Blue can become, not freshly inked.

 

(Franken)Pen: TWSBI Eco + Wingsung 'Lucky) nib, adjusted super wet.

 

Paper: Rhodia Notebook (absorbent side of paper, not the hard and non-absorbent side, there are 2 very different sides)

 

Ink: Pilot Blue, aged in pen for 2-3 months.

 

Photographed under strong afternoon sunlight using Samsung S8edge, untouched picture.

 

Rhodia still wants to shade the ink.

Edited July 6, 2018 by minddance

[minddance]

Ink: R&K Blu Mare

Pen: Twsbi Eco Stub 1.1mm, adjusted super wet.

Paper: Rhodia Notebook (absorbent side)

 

First line was fast and very light writing, I have not gotten used to the pen yet. As I write slower, the lines become saturated (2nd and 3rd lines).

 

This is a very shadey ink and can appear light in dry pens on Rhodia.

[minddance]

And now, the paper to kill all nuances and tonal variations, MUJI Paper. This batch is exceedingly absorbent and rather feathery with my super wet pens.

 

Here is Rohrer & Klingner Sepia aged in a Pelikan M200 fine. Lines would appear broader and darker.

 

This is in no way representative of Rohrer & K, and Pelikan.

[minddance]

More MUJI Paper to subdue nuances and tonal variations:

 

Diamine in Sailor Pro Gear 14k Fine and

Diamine Midnight in Sailor Pro Gear 21k MF.

 

Absolutely no tonal variation at the expense of a broader line and poor line quality. This muji paper is rough as can been seen under magnification and super absorbent. The paper might work for a smooth dry extra fine nib.

[Olya]

The tonal differences upon closer inspection might always be there, with any ink, as described due to the nature of the writing.

A Pelikan might lay down a darker line, because Pelikans are usually very wet writers.

minddance's pictures are very good (and yours CoolBreeze, the new one you added shows Pilot Blue more true to life as I know it!), I got my Pilot Blue even a touch darker in a Sheaffer Sagaris! And Pilot Blue Black also very dark, minimal shading (tonal difference) in a Sheaffer 440.

Edited July 6, 2018 by Olya

[minddance]

The tonal differences upon closer inspection might always be there, with any ink, as described due to the nature of the writing.

A Pelikan might lay down a darker line, because Pelikans are usually very wet writers.

minddance's pictures are very good (and yours CoolBreeze, the new one you added shows Pilot Blue more true to life as I know it!), I got my Pilot Blue even a touch darker in a Sheaffer Sagaris! And Pilot Blue Black also very dark, minimal shading (tonal difference) in a Sheaffer 440.

Yes Olya, upon magnification and close examination, I am afraid nuances and tonal variations will almost always be present.

 

It is easier to shade and have tonal variations than have a true solid line without tonal variations.

 

I haven't found an ink that doesn't 'move' or have tonal variations. Herbin Perle Noir can at times fit OP's criteria with the right pen-paper combinations.

 

I have tried hard to subdue the shadings and tonal variations, and my pens are very very very very wet. How wet? The Kaweco and TWSBI lay lines that are 3-dimensional on the page and refuse to dry.

 

So can one imagine if the pens weren't tuned so wet and with mid-light inks, how can one write? Therefore I find Pilot gold nibs (the medium and finer) way too dry for too many inks.

 

Maybe someone should open up a new thread to showcase absolutely solid and non-tonally varied writing sample using normal pens, not a dip pen

[CoolBreeze]

Minddance forgive my delayed response. I'm on travel and finally able to respond. Those writings are great. I particularly love the look of the Diamine Midnight! I see what you mean about the Rohrer & Klingner Dokumente Brown - it does seem a little too shadey for my preferences. Also, your pilot blue does look better than mine but still a little too much shading for my preferences.

 

As you pointed out, there may always appear to be tonal variations but as long as it is not distracting at arms length, it can be totally acceptable.

 

Part of the reason I am looking for a saturated non-shadey ink is that I do a lot of writing in professional environments and I want it to look professional. You mentioned a lot of your pens are really wet which would might be a concern for me specifically if that increases dry time/smearing (as that might be an issue in meetings).

 

I just got Deartrimentis Document dark blue as a sample that I ordered before I started this thread. Although the color doesn't "pop" - I do not notice any tonal variations in it at all and it dries in rhodia/cf in less than 3 seconds. It would be nice if it popped a little more but I know I can't have everything. I'm excited to try some of the recommendations mentioned here soon. Thanks again!

[Torrilin]

Wet pen definitely can increase dry time. I haven’t used most of Minddance’s suggestions, and it seems like their pen tuning preferences are quite different to mine. But I CAN tell you that Diamine Midnight won’t automatically ruin clothes if it gets loose. Partner had a rather impressive accident with it a week or so ago.

 

It seems like you are most interested in colored ink, not black, and colored ink tends to be the tricky part. Also basically every ink color besides blue, blue black and black will read as “unprofessional”. Most Federal offices want only black ink. Certain kinds of legal documents only want blue. And very often businesses will not say in advance but will refuse to accept papers that are in “weird” ink colors. So I’d focus on those colors and not worry about the full rainbow to start.

 

Both Pilot Blue and Pilot Blue Black tend to be quite shadey. So they aren’t likely to suit for what you want. The blue black is less off, but from the sounds of it your gold nibbed Pilot pen is unlikely to match well with it for the look you want.

 

Given your interests, I’d probably take a close and careful look at Sandy1’s reviews, starting with inks you have used and disliked. I’m not sure she has done one for Pilot Blue offhand but she’s definitely got one for the Blue Black.

 

A lot of fountain pen blue inks are very fade prone. That tends to correlate with washing out well. Blue black and plain black tend to hold up better than blue, though mostly they aren’t waterproof or fade proof for art purposes.

[minddance]

Hi CoolBreeze, the sun is out today! Here is Pilot Blue freshly filled in a cheap $1.50 Platinum Riviere, a rather wet writer, unadjusted on Campus Gambol paper (cheap and absorbent). Pilot Blue performed well, minimal/no feathering on lousy absorbent papers. It is of a legible shade, but wants to shade/have tonal variations, even on absorbent papers.

 

Yes, please take a look at Sandy1's reviews, they are the best anyone can ever hope for

 

If you have any new discoveries towards your goal, please share with us. It is always good to learn about new possibilities and combinations

[CoolBreeze]

I ordered a few samples before I started this thread and I am finally getting around to testing them all. I thought I would check back in and give a few thoughts -

 

Pentel Energel - Blue - I was on vacation for 2 weeks and just used this because I didn't want to fly with multiple fountain pens and ink with me and I knew I wouldn't be using them that much. I have to say, after using it solely for 2 weeks, the liquidy/gel aspect that I was originally looking for in fountain pen ink really isn't necessary anymore as a "requirement" - It would be cool if it had it, but there was something to me about the way fountain pen ink on the pages looks, that started to appeal to me more. That being said, high saturation and/or minimal to no shading is still important to me.

 

De Atramentis Document Dark Blue - it is not a popping color, but I really like it a lot. It is highly saturated with little/to no shading. It flows a lot though and the line width seems to be larger than normal. I will admit, that with you can see some points of slight bleed-through though with some pen/paper combos. I would recommend sticking to no larger than moderate medium nib pens or Japanese m-nib pens.

 

Pilot Prera - M Nib - CF paper - great combo, no bleed, 1 sec dry time.

FC Loom - M Nib - CF Paper - decent combo, slight points of bleed-through

FC Loom - M Nib - Black N' Red - good combo, no bleed-through, 11 sec dry time

Pilot 91 - M Nib - CF Paper - bad combo - feathering and significant bleed-through

Pilot 91 - M Nib - Black N' Red - decent combo, slight points of bleed-through and slight feathering

 

Pilot Iroshizuku Ama Iro - This is an OK ink for me. I am not a fan of the shading though as it seems to be significant on paper. It dries fast though and doesn't smear after drying even if my hands rub it as I go back over my notes to annotate things. For some reason though, it seems to provide more "drag" when I write with both pens like the nib is more stuck to the page. It seems weird to me but I noticed it with both pens.

 

Pilot Prera - M Nib - CF paper - great combo, no bleed or show through

Pilot Metro - M Nib - Black N' Red - great combo, no bleed or show through, 3 second dry time.

Edited July 30, 2018 by CoolBreeze

[cellmatrix]

When I first started writing with a fountain pen I was just like the op, I thought that most fountain pen ink looked washed out. As a result I gravitated towards super saturated inks which did not shade. As I gained experience I learned to appreciate the nuances of shading and how it can enhance writing. Now I realize that shading, properly applied and not overdone, can add depth and dimension to ones writing. It visually distinguishes fountain pen writing from gel pen writing. Perhaps with time the op can appreciate this too. I recommend to the op don’t throw away your ‘washed out’ fountain pen ink but rather revisit it in a year or two. You might eventually come to like it just as I have.

[minddance]

Sometimes it is not about how much time a person takes to learn to appreciate shading - it is about the purpose of using an ink. For certain tasks, I am still like the OP. No-nonsense look. No shading whatsoever. But still, the inks shade. They move. There is no need to make inks shade, tonal variations are almost always present unless one uses really saturated inks and/or absorbent papers.

 

And I am never anxious about announcing to the reader that I wrote with a fountain pen: there is no urgent need to.

 

Moreover, if one likes shading very much, just add water to the ink. It is the diluted inks that shade. Saturated (enough) inks do not shade.

 

STrong voices are encouraging ink makers to add more water and less dye. That is fine. Or is it vice versa?

 

Technique is the ability to get what one desires. For me, it is equally important to know how NOT TO get shading, as much as how to get shading.

 

Since this thread is about how not to get shading, we could leave educating readers on diluted inks/watercolours and transluscent/transparent looks for other threads

 

It does not mean that a novice cannot appreciate shadings that only seasoned fountain pen users can. There is nothing wrong if someone does not like shadings at all. Everyone is entitled to their own preferences. Nobody said fountain pen inks MUST shade. But yes, they can shade and they do shade or at least have tonal variations. And forums and reviews seem to make shading (and probably sheen) a very big thing, a highlight, so much that people do not buy inks that do not shade(?).

 

I can be in this hobby for many years and still want my lines to be solid, rich, saturated and no-nonsense. Or I can be completely new and take pleasure in watercoloured text, with infinite hues, or hypnotised by light-dark-light-dark 'shadings' and writing poetic nothings.

 

Afterall, it is personal taste and purpose of writing. If it is for fun, anything goes. Watercolours on brush or q-tips can be good amusement too.

Edited July 31, 2018 by minddance

[cellmatrix]

Since this thread is about how not to get shading, we could leave educating readers on diluted inks and translucent/transparent looks for another thread.

I was trying to provide some helpful comments based on my own personal experience- sorry if they were not welcome 😊

[minddance]

I was trying to provide some helpful comments based on my own personal experience- sorry if they were not welcome 😊

Sorry it wasn't directed at you, but at the general idea of shading vs non-shading. Please don't take it personally any insight/comment should be free and welcomed in forums.